Nineteen Canteen

Interesting comment and perhaps not as 'heavy' as some would hope.

Fair question and my thoughts are based on MLT's comments in the Echo about how if he wrote a book he did not want to dish the dirt so to speak but concentrate on his football. He even mentioned he had no axe to grind with Lowe and no reason to comment either way or words to that effect. I know and watched MLTs career avidly and was hoping for the story behind the story the type that makes a really good autobiography that as far as I can understand is largely written by Hiley. So when is an autobiography not an autobiography? It promises to be a recount of pretty much what we already know and of little interest to knowledgeable fans or those who have a copy of In That Number. Of course I may be wrong but maybe it will be a bargain stocking filler come christmas. The Administration story however I will form an orderly queue now.

Please don't concern yourself and anyway there is no room on my coffee table for what promies to be such a lightweight tome.

I have no idea perhaps they gave money in line with the laws of the Jewish Talmud. 'A man who gives charity in secret is greater than Moses' Now I don't know about you but that is how I prefer to make my donations and it also cuts down on the junk mail.

Weston I don't dispute what Mike Richards told you and can see that was probably the case. That was Crouch's finest hour but IMO there was alot Crouch was responsible for that indirectly or otherwise eventually led to the desperate situation in the first place. From my own observations his comments in the programme and media Crouch made more wrong calls than right ones whatever his best intentions but if those final donations were the one thing that saved the club perhaps it can be argued the slate was wiped clean and on balance he comes out neutral. I suppose the nagging doubt is did Crouch look to make good some of his past decisions / comments and making a donation for all the right reasons or was he doing it to position himself for a future role in the club? If the latter then the club obviously benefitted massively but does Crouch still deserve the plaudits given the different slant on his intentions if that was the case? Personally, I'm not sure Crouch comes out of the whole thing any better than Wilde or Lowe especially as his most significant contribution came after the administration horse had bolted and his rumoured offers of a cash injection to Lowe prior to administration remains unresolved and not understood properly in my mind at least. I'm glad the three are history but wind the clock back and I wish the money Crouch lost during administration had been made available to the club to avoid the sorry mess in the first place. Unfortunately, to our cost they were not musketeers.

How many fans attend every game home and away?? Mr Liebherr is not the DWPS and to be honest has no need to increase the hand outs he has already made by idlely throwing money at us. IMO we need to show and in some cases improve our commitment before he provides more cash.

We seem to be in complete agreement on the MLT issue although i can only talk about my observations whereas FF was far closer to proceedings. I doubt any two posters on this forum are in complete agreement on all things Saints and life as we know it and I think you are deliberately trying to take out of context a statement that was fairly reasonable and easily understood in a silly attempt to undermine and ridicule me personally. Carry on.

One sure fire way to make sure the truth is never known is to roll over and forget about it as you suggest whilst people remain unaccountable for their actions. And I mean people from the those involved in the -10pts timing through to those involved with Pinnacle. We can't hang one person out to dry and try to cover up the shortcomings of another based on past reputations and IMO everyone should have 'their day in court' so to speak. I agree Wes it is unlikely I and others will get the answers we would like but that won't stop the questions either. I don't have the contacts to do us you suggest but I hope one day someone like Duncan Holley will put pen to paper if nothing more than to document the events of the past 4 years. As a historian he is surely interested in the events that helped shape the present and its a book many would read if only to piece all the snippets together and probably minus the real story behind the story. I am fully behind the new regime and hopeful about our future whilst remaining realistic. Saying that I remain hopeful that those who have IMO hampered our recovery post administration are bought to bear along with the questions you ask about the timing, although Lowe or whoever it would have been had a mountain climb this time last year and one some fans did their best to ensure they contributed to that failure by vowing not to attend home matches along with the far more valid reasons of economic decline.

Does he??? It didn't turn out that way and neither did it ever look likely as so often it's proved throwing money at a problem is not always the answer.

That maybe so in the fluffy world of PR but in my experience in important issues you never take everything at face value especially if your reputation or credibility are riding on it. People that I have seen who do are the ones who don't try to understand what they are being asked, are easily bullied or coerced or simply reckless. In any event it usually ends in tears. The time to move on will be when the reports if any get filed or those concerned speak out.

With regards to MLT, Crouch and Pinnacle? Until such time as I understand their role in the mess and they at least acknowledge some reponsibility (if necessary) for our near demise and potential loss of the Swiss bid and less than ideal start. People are quick to receive the plaudits and I have no problem with that but they need to stand up and be accountable when things go wrong otherwise are they any better than anyone else from the past 4 years? For once I seem to have identical views as Fitzhugh Fella but without the benefit of his knowledge and in this instance it seems his unpleasant experience.

Shall we compare the relegation of the two sides and the issues they had to deal with during their respective close seasons. No lets not as it won't support your argument.

CS he allegedly said recently on Sky (I didn't see the programme and refer to posts on here) that it was clear Pinnacle didn't have the funds not long after exclusivity but as we know even at the 11th hour he was telling us they were confident the bid would be successful long after their allotted deadline had passed simply adding to the delays seemingly without hope. What he has said so far allegedly does not seem to add up to what he said at the time so when do you think his real story will emerge and what will compell him to tell it? MLT may have got sucked into the bid initially but if he knew quickly the funds weren't there why carry on with what IMO was nothing but a hopeful charade that did far more damage than good.

The clientele on here Duncan represent barely 5% of our opening day attendance at least those who post regularly. I don't think we should ever under estimate the need to know the real story and it grates with me regardless of his reputation that MLT hasn't afforded the fans a little reciprocated respect and tell his validated side of the story. Just makes me think what has he got to hide?

Hypo I'm sure if you go through my post history you will find a few times when the blood has boiled and I may have reacted as many others do. Not saying it's right but there we go. However, when the mud really starts getting slung then I may give it back the best I can and I think it's these insults of which you refer. In terms of rumours about my health then I can't say I'm happy about it and in hindsight probably wish i had addressed the initial accusations a little differently or all together. Thankfully the rumours you mention are very wide of the mark and my long term prognosis although remains guarded it is better than had I been unfortunate to suffer an extremely grave illness such as the rumours and not really the basis for jokes as others have tried. In defence of Weston I think he is just one of those rare beasts on here who can rise above all the mud slinging and see both sides.

That's made my evening anyway, much LOLing

TBH Influenced I have no idea how a report will get published to the public and to what content it will be required to cover. My guess is that any report to the creditors will read like a set of year end accounts and the real story behind those numbers manipulated to put as positive light on those numbers as possible. The real story behind the shambles behind Pinnacle will probably be reduced to a footnote if that IMO.

DSM it is not arrogance simply an observation and whilst there are many who have stuck by the club compared to our peer group we have lost a lot of support and all too readly IMO.

Exactly. All Cortese is doing is appointing to the board a director responsible for football matters and the equivalent of Oldknow on the commercial side. Pardew will simply be accountable to the Sporting Director instead of Cortese and will not be required to attend board meetings because he is not a director but a manager of a football team. No doubt Pardew will need to have regular meetings with the Sporting director to appraise him of some form of SWOT analysis (Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats) and will obviously need the SD's buy in for new funds or loan players based on those SWOT reports. In my view all it's doing is balancing out the pyramid of Cortese's chain of command and actually allows Pardew more time to focus on team affairs. Given the personalities involved I really think this is a non-issue and some of you are looking for problems that don't exist but I recognise that for some more hysterical and self-important managers who believe they are the club a DoF can be seen as a derogatory appointment. I don't think we have the Redknapp and Keegan types in our situation.

Hopefully it's only temporary

Frank you ask some very good questions but regrettably I don't know how any of the answers could be ratified and made public and IMO MLT's reputation and status does not exclude him from the same line of questioning. As for Lynam..... One thing is for sure IMO the best intentions of a few individuals has seriously dented the hopes of many.

I hope they don't tbh but judging by the wave of 'woe is us' since our heavy defeat last night you have to question their commitment.

Maybe but judging by some of the hysterics being posted by others today after our 'catastrophic' failure last night I suddenly find myself in the bracket of reasonable posters and presumably sad individuals.