Nineteen Canteen

No idea but I suspect about 6 times as many and rising than 5 years ago. I doubt it would look good on a graph if you plot from the early 80's when Aldershot fans were cheering the sinking of the Belgrano more than a shots goal.

You never know, time to buy shares in Bodyform, it looks like we may have another gypsy week.

Gaffer, I take it this idea is a non-starter then due to lack of interest?

Charlotte Church? Fine pair of tits

You don't have to like the postman to read and understand the importance of what he delivers. At the moment there seems to be a proliferation of junkmail dropping through my letterbox and there is a risk I will throw away the one important piece of correspondence.

Maybe but there is growing sense of unease just wading through the first 50 odd comments on the Echo article today about unpaid wages. Pinnacle IMO are beginning to lose support quicker than a Labour MP in Wales.

Careful, otherwise you won't be able to read your screen for spittle. Fan's didn't get vote on the financial decisions but presumably had a choice about supporting the team and many quickly forgot the recent days of high achievement. If your spouse or your kids let you down do you turn your back on them? Supporting a football club is not always about VFM for many it's an extension to their family - it's in the blood. Unfortunately, the board of club's have to run it like a 'customer focussed enterprise' in the absence of an oligarch because those 'through thick and thin' fans seem to be a dying breed a fact plainly evident at Saints. As a result we see more and more clubs go out of business unable to generate revenue to pay the alarming wages of players as their fans choose to stay in and watch Champions League or Sky like all the genuine grass roots fans of those big 4 clubs priced out of regularly attending matches at £60 a ticket. I may be wrong but why does the Emirates have no atmosphere? Why, because the the genuine fan has been priced out by the greed of others and the 'corporate fan'. To prove a point this forum has become increasingly obessed over the last year with the boardroom as oppose to the team and those who don't have SFC in their blood. The 'corporate / consumer fan' happier to discuss issues as if they were comparing the merits of Tesco vs Asda. I know, like NickH and many others, I have not contributed in anyway to the decline of this club and have supported the club regardless of my personal opinions about the suits in charge. Does that make me self-righteous? I expect you're right but what of those missing 10,000? Still enjoying the process of administration, I suspect it is those that want it to fail as they have the least vested in the club and it makes great for an interesting close season during your lunch hour.

Yes but as fans you can't say we weren't warned. Jim Hone and Rupert Lowe were quite clear about our position but as now frustration got the better of some.

Thanks SG, as things stand this is probably going to be the best news of the day.

Nick, likewise I was very anti-administration as a way out and hope to be proved wrong. At the moment though with pre-season training underway players coaching themselves a manager in limbo and a legal impasse with the FL we are not exactly getting to grips with the situation IMO.

Don't think he did, you have to admit though that was quite interesting news that LM manages a Parliament 11 and an opprotunity for a little friendly satire in gloomy times. BTW, thanks for your support the other day. Your post was appreciated as it did knock me back that someone who I was led to belive I could trust let me down quite so badly. Anonimity is something very close to my heart as I have to cope with prejudice or false sympathy (which is worse) on a daily basis. Sometimes your apparent enemies can be your closest allies. Nickh being a case in point.

I would like to think that MLT would consider the risk of delay far greater than the risk of not being able to appeal a 10 point penalty, assuming this is the reason. My guess he is as frustrated about not being able to get on with the real job and using funds to start building a new infrastructure than lining the pockets of some Lawyer's Saville Row Tailor. MLT's reputation IMO doesn't go on the line until we run out against Millwall, if we do. I hope if Pinnacle do implement their exit plan any new bidders look at MLT's potential as the Saints own Niall Quinn.

Beat me too it. Has a kind of irony though IMO.

Was he one of the many blacked out items?

I bet he does but how much more do we need to spend to get this club back up and running? With Crouch allegedly offered a directors role for his I assume support post administration (ignoring what went before) do we need to be beholden to another 'old boy' for pushing through the brave new dawn? IMO for a completely clean sweep under TL and MLT I would accept guaranteed relegation to Div 2 with a 27 point deduction. Knowing people in the League isn't IMO going to get them to rollover unless McMenemy can persuade all the other league clubs we don't deserve our punishment.

Alternatively, we could put substantial store in everything that get's posted on here as romantic fantasy dressed up as fact. The truest words ever uttered on this forum was by those who said administration would be a disaster for the club and there is no disputing that fact. Who will be the next 'Facebook celebrity' to organise a march to support the next phase in the club's ongoing development? I sense the wave of apathy and ridicule amongst the fans brewing as a result of this less than understandable delay will cause more damage than the return of Lowe or a showcase Frost interview with Crouch. Sod the TL repeat, Matty time to rally and reassure the troops with lines we don't need to read between.

I think you are getting confused, I think you are now talking about his exit plan.

I would have thought they would have considered their contingencies when they wrote the cheque for £500k, or perhaps they thought everyone would cede to their demands? Amateurish at best, foolish arrogance at worst. Very surprising nonetheless given how risk conscious he seems to have become.

Thanks Alpine, I had overlooked that possibility as I just responsed to Bletch above but even at -25 there comes a time when the risks of delay will outweigh the risks of not achieving legal closure with the FL. Just means in all probability an extra season in L1. If the discussions are as you suggest then the ramifications to Pinnacle or any potential purchaser are far greater and resolution will not be easy as I agree with many others that i cannot see the FL backing down on this issue without a fight.

Very good point Bletch and one I hadn't considered. Obviously, the inability to disclose the reality behind the licence issues during discussions between the two parties is leading to ever more complex but reasonable scenarios.

He must have read my reply to his message last night on the original thread using house analogies. Why would you exchange and not complete? I suppose you could pull out if you didn't use your own money to pay the deposit in the first place and there was no comeback on you for doing so. Otherwise better too lose £500k than many millions. It's good Pinnacle remain in the driving seat, excellent in fact but even driving licences have expiry dates.

I agree, at best confidence is diminishing and its not as though they are trying to secure something absolutely key to the club's ability to survive. i.e ground ownership or access to playing facilities. Unless I have misunderstood the whole thing the purchase is allegedly being delayed on a point of principle with the FL. A rule that 68% of fans on here were happy to accept the punishmentfrom the FL, so why not PInnacle? 10 points is nothing as Leicester proved last year and Leeds made the play offs with an even bigger deficit. Of course the delay can only diminish our chances of elminating that deficit which then makes the negotiations with the FL critical. Are we moving into Catch 22 territory?

Agree 100%, the risks of continuing to delay the purchase of the club appear now to far outweigh the risks of going ahead without resolution of the licence issues to the club's satisfaction. If that licence issue solely hinges on the right to appeal then to be honest the delay cannot be justified especially as an appeal has no guarantee of success. In fact dragging on with an appeal, post purchase, could be become a negative distraction and even more damaging in the long run if the club decided to take that route. Last time I looked the forum users were 68% in favour of accepting the FL's punishment. If like me they feel that the club may have acted within the rules but not within the spirit of the rules and therefore the ruling seems fair, especially looking at from the perspective of all the other clubs, then why appeal and court unnecessary risk?. Also, I firmly believe if we start the new Pinnacle era today a 10 point penalty should not be that difficult to overcome but with every day that passes and the team seemingly cast adrift that confidence is eroded so perhaps we need that right to appeal if that is the sole sticking point. It feels like Pinnacle are in danger of falling into a Catch 22 IMO.

Dear Tony, Thank you for the update. It is appreciated even if you are right in saying it's also very frustrating. To my untutored eye on the one hand you point out that the FL have a duty to do the right thing on behalf of all their members and whilst you can appreciate that you say you only have Saint's interests at heart. The administrators I feel will support you or any other owner as they have an interest to maximise the return for the creditors and be seen in financial circles to have done a decent job in a competitve environment especially at the moment and therefore I draw little comfort from their support. It seems you are relying more on hope under a recognition that you cannot influence the FL and even though they are working hard on the issue it's irrelevent if they don't resolve it to your satisfaction and decide to keep their other members happy whilst using Saints as a catalyst to change their rules. Finger pointing and blame cultures are not going to solve this and neither is continued hope and discussion. We spent most of 2007 and early 2008 with hope and discussion on investment but talk and hope was all we ever got. Spare a thought for all of us, the fans, the staff, the teams' prospects and yourself and rather than think about those priorities just take some positive action and accept the 10 point medicine and start managing the club to overcome what should be far from an insurmountable deficit given the right management structure and appropriate level of well chosen investment. Finally, like many others I would welcome to hear the official line on a role or otherwise for Leon Crouch should you complete your purchase of SFC. Unity is of paramount importance and so is the need for us all to learn from our past mistakes. I sense patience is regrettably wearing thin. Regards NC

Surely, if you really want to buy the club holding out for a questionable right of appeal seems odd IMO. Also, I assume that Pinnacle must have known or had a strong inkling that the FL would be very unlikely to budge on their decision or be in a mood for concessions. The longer this drags on it seems Pinnacle, if they buy the club, are making a rod for their own backs by not being in SMS today and actually running the club. Is the deal really being held up on a point of a potential right of appeal that they are likely to lose? Furthermore, if our friend Crouch allegedly stumped up the £500k is it safe to assume he will be given a directors role for his generosity? If so considering his ill chosen (at best) comments to R5L as to why the Holding Company was set up (to avoid league punishments that had not even been considered at the time - more Lowe foresight.) does this not put the FL firmly in the driving seat in defending an appeal? What are Pinnacle playing at and what is Crouch's role in all this? Stalling on a minor issue it's a bit like walking away from your dream house because the garden is a metre short of your ideal and you can't negotiate buying a strip of land from the farmer's field at the bottom of the garden so you walk away moments before completion and lose your deposit. Buy the effing house Pinnacle and sort it later, if your case is so strong the FL's sanctions will be easily thrown out anyway and you'll be able to appeal away.