Lighthouse

Nobody wants to crush Russia, they can leave any time they like. This is the same old arguments coming round again but essentially the war ends when Russia wants it to, i.e. they leave. There is no other solution to this, certainly not through negotiation. Russia took Crimea and Donbass nine years ago, it didn't lead to peace, they just came back and tried to take the rest eight years later. Half of their nutcase population think they should retake the Baltics and Poland too, get the old band back together.

Presumably all the people worried about terrorist attacks in the UK are equally worried about Islamic and Jewish extremist attacks, given the strong and conflicting support for both Israel and Palestine in this country?

‘Seemingly’ being the key word there. Aggressors will almost invariably act as if their actions are the victims fault, just look at Putin blaming the west and Ukraine for everything which is happening there. If you’re murdering British people over this it’s because you’re a religious fundamentalist and you consider those who aren’t subhuman.

I’d say that was debatable more than obvious but either way, it should play no part in the decision making which goes on there.

Ahhh, the old, "if we don’t offer any kind of fight against the aggressors everything will be fine and we will have peace," argument, which has always played out brilliantly, throughout history.

He’s gone full Stalin I guess, I hope he shat his pants too.

I guess they must have been Louis Vuitton or D&G.

I think our best chance is to try and shove him into the Knit-o-matic.

I specifically said Arab state to make that distinction. Israel has shown progress on improving relations with a number of Gulf States, to the point that they even had direct flights to Saudi and the UAE. They're clearly capable of coexisting with Arabs, the dificulty is translating that into a Palestinian state when points 3 and 4 remain.

I think the debate can essentially be boiled down to four separate points. Can ordinary Palestinians live peacefully next to an Israeli state - Yes Can Israel live peacefully next to an Arab state - Yes Can Hamas allow Israel to exist peacefully - No Are Israel likely to stop clearing settlements in the WB - No. 3 and 4 are basically the reasons there will never be peace in that region. Not in our lifetimes anyway.

Hidden away on Sky Sports Arena, according to their app.

I wouldn’t say slowly, I think we’ve now lost the entire ‘66 final team - apart from Moore, Ball and Hurst - in the space of about four years. He was also the last remaining survivor of the Munich air disaster, which must have been a truly harrowing ordeal and haunted him for the rest of his life.

Having checked, you are correct. The 1-1 Cup game was the Championship season and we lost the replay at home.

Just channel flicking and To Hull and Back is on UK Gold as we speak.

They were two separate games. The Lambert hat trick one we won 3-2 having been 2-1 down after 90 minutes. The other finished 1-1, think it was a cup game.

I still don’t get why the VAR can’t just give that. Such a stupid implementation of video technology.

Good gravy!

Abysmal cricket.

England getting De Kock out with two balls.

I think there are a couple of factors which may prevent it from reaching her face.

I never said one missile could take out all the Jews, you've completely made that up. It's an Iranian missile with 'death to Israel' written on the side. Not 'only a couple of them', or 'only the Politicians' or 'only military targets. No - 'death to Israel'. And if you want to tell Hamas militants that them believing their own holy book is 'just daft', then I'd rather you tell them that than me. I never said anything of the sort, again completely made up. Look back up the thread if you interested, I've said from the start Israeli revenge will be ruthless, indiscriminate and innocent Palestinians will suffer. I have never defended any of that, what they do in the West Bank is human rights abuse. Whether Israel could live next to a peaceful Palestinian state, if Hamas theoretically didn't exist, I've genuinely no idea. We'll likely never know sadly. Because they don't want to, you want them to. What part of parasailing into a music festival, gunning down innocent teenagers and parading their bodies through the streets says, "hey, lets sit down and have a civilised chat." This argument has been done before with ISIS years ago. I don't conflate Jews and Israelis, those that want them dead do, that is literally my point. There are people out there who genuinely wish to kill British school children, who happen to share the same religion as the Israelis and nothing else. That's the conflation, it's not mine, it's that of the Hamas sympathisers. I haven't overlooked anything; the point being debated is the need for negotiation. If you want me to clarify that Israel's Bomber Harris like blitz of civilian areas in Gaza is wrong, I scarcely think that needs pointing out and as such I didn't. It's not a stupid question, they quite litterally want death, they are murderous terrorists. If you want to negotiate, you have to offer them something they want. You are offering them (I assume) zero dead Israelis and are therefore 100% on Israels side in this so called negotiation. The last bit is just whataboutery. I'm not even going to argue that it's wrong, all you're really proving there is that there is double the reason that peaceful negotiation is pretty much impossible.

Well there's the Holy book which commands death to not followers, for a start. Then there's the big Iranian missile with 'death to Israel' written in Hebrew on the side. Then there was the massive terrorist attack which killed over 1,000 innocent civilians, including children and the appaling videos of them being butchered as subhuman scum. Then there's the worldwide rise in anti-Semitic incidents, including threats to the safety of British children who attend Jewish schools but may well have absolutely zero links to Israel. Then there's the long standing denial by a large number of Gulf states that a Jewish state exists at all, with maps marked simply as 'occupied land' or left blank. Enough to be getting on with? No they don't. Why do Hamas have to negotiate, just because you want them to? Even if they did, I'll say the same as I did about Russia; what makes you think they'll pay any noticed what so ever to anything they pay lip service to in negotiation? I'll pose the same question that I posed to Sheaf. Hamas want all the Jews dead, Israel want none. How many Jews do you kill in your opening bid?

Quite clearly not but they are the ones doing the killing, which means they’re the ones you would have to negotiate with, if it were possible. I’m in favour of all of the second paragraph but it’s entirely missing the point; that’s not what Hamas want. It may be what ordinary Palestinians want but literally any agreement between Israel and Palestine will not prevent the rocket attacks and terrorist murders of Hamas, which Israel will respond to with force, so it’s an entirely moot point.

Hamas want all the Jews dead. Israel want none of the Jews dead. What would be your opening offer on this compromise, how many Jews should be killed?

Love a good fireworks display