badgerx16

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" - Benjamin Disraeli. "There are liars, damned liars, and politicians" - (unattributed).

There was a political concensus that something had to be done to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but the foundation of that consensus was subsequently proved to be flawed. So why cannot this particular assertion be tested ?

Hutton's report is open to question : "Contribution levels have already increased in some schemes, and cost sharing has been introduced, so if people live longer than anticipated, extra costs are shared between employer and employees. And the civil service has replaced its final salary scheme with a career average scheme for people joining after July 2007. These changes reduced the value of schemes to new entrants in the four main public sector pension schemes from 23 to 20 per cent of salary. And it doesn’t end there. The Coalition have also taken action, by ensuring that employer pension contributions rise every year by the consumer prices index measure of inflation, rather than the retail prices index, which is higher because it includes housing costs. This has reduced the value of schemes from 20 to 17 per cent of salaries. So the cost of schemes has fallen from 23 to 17 per cent of salary in the last five years. When pensions experts talk about the sustainability of public sector pensions they usually measure this by looking at the cost as a percentage of national income (gross domestic product). Figures from Lord Hutton’s report show that public sector pensions are expected to account for 1.9 per cent of GDP this year, remain at 1.8 per cent for the next decade, before falling to 1.4 per cent by 2059-60. In other words, the cost of public sector pensions is expected to fall, even if no further action is taken." http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-pensions-timebomb/4266 And the point I was supporting is that the Local Government scheme is self-funded - so there is NO increased burden to the exchequer: http://www.unitetheunion.org/news__events/latest_news/ten_top_facts_on_local_governm.aspx If other public sector schemes do cause such a burden then that is another matter.

How many more times Bridge, you can't go bringing facts into a debate on an Internet forum, especially when they go against the ConDem Government's justifications for it's non-manifesto based actions, or the spittle spumed blusterings of the right wing propagandists in the print media.

Can I also join the queue to point out the basic untruth of this statement. My retirement age is currently set to 66. And then as I asked Mrs B last night, who would want Police, firemen and paramedics still responding to blue light calls when over 60 ? The problem with the generic phrase 'public sector', and deriving average statistics from it, is it covers everything from the world's top neuro surgeon to the lowliest CA in a back office somewhere in Washington ( Tyne & Wear ). The armed forces are a completely different entity to the NHS, which is itself distinct from Local Govt, the civil service, etc.

This is a pussy : This is a beaver : And this is a pair of great tits : Hope this helps.

This is a bit like asking 'who is your favourite Horseman of the Apocalypse' ? Would you choose Famine over Plague ? As for the thread, I think it's a 4-way tie for last place.

I think there is a lesson in there for some of us, don't quote the Daily Mail without actually reading the entire article. :lol:

A question for the teachers and 'significant others' of teachers : How many days of the summer "holidays" do you / they work ? I know for myself that my wife probably does a minimum 2 weeks of work during this 'break'. And the proportion is similar for Easter & Xmas.

Yet more balony : If your Whole time Pay Rate is: You pay a contribution rate of: Up to £12,900 5.5% £12,901 to £15,100 5.8% £15,101 to £19,400 5.9% £19,401 to £32,400 6.5% £32,401 to £43,300 6.8% £43,301 to £81,100 7.2% More than £81,100 7.5%

Well, as somebody who is generally presumed to be a part of the Liberal Elite, I need to provide some balance against those who side with the Brokeback Coalition ;-)

Haven't you managed that extra point yet ?

Nor am I HTH

I prefer to think I provide excellent value for money.

What rot. As has previously been stated my direct experience over the last two years has been a £2K direct cut in salary, no pay rise for 3 years, and the section has had an overall staff cut of 20% ( 9 out of 45 ) as our contribution to a 28% cut in the organisation's budget..

It's easy to over simplify the argument. The 2 primary issues are, as far as I can make out, that (1) the pension Ts&Cs are part of our contracts, and for those of us who entered public service 20 odd years ago were an accepted offset against demonstrably lower salaries as compared to the private sector. Now things may have changed in terms of whether there is a discrepancy between public & private now, but that was part of the decision making process when I started. (2) The unions are currently engaged in 'negotiations' with the Government, but the Government's position is that each of the points on which they unions are trying to hold talks have been declared by the "Ginger Rat" as non-negotiable. Public Sector workers aren't the demons that the ConDems and the Daily Heil would have you believe. But neither are they willing to be taken for granted.

Nail, head Nutshell etc,etc,etc

Or Bull Sh!t, depending on your perspective.

A- The country’s skint - Bailing out those bastions of the Private Sector, the banks, didn't help, and we can still start a war in Libya. Also, in the main the Public Sector pensions, other than the Civil Service, are funded from employee contributions and investment of the funds, the Government's only involvement is paying the contracted employers' contributions. B- Where in these teacher’s contracts doe’s it guarantee gold plated, recession proof busting pensions 9I only ask as in the Private Sector everything refers back to your contract - The pension is part of the Ts & Cs when you take up your position, though you can, of course, opt out. C- They get guaranteed wage rises every year, this year was the first year in 3 we did at my place (2%) - Teachers may well get a rise, most Public Sector workers are in the 2nd year of a 3 year pay freeze ( with inflation @ 5% ), and many Local Authority workers have actually taken a real-terms cut this year, in my case nearly £2k. D- Striking will turn the public against them despite the undoubtedly amazing job they do - My wife is a teacher and she supports the strike, but this actually puts her in the minority at her school. Don't believe the propaganda ( from either side ), the negotiations are continuing, despite Danny Alexander's attempts to out right-wing the Tories.

A Mexican, an Arab, and a hot gorgeous blonde Cornish girl are in the same bar. When the Mexican finishes his beer, he throws his glass in the air, pulls out his pistol, and shoots the glass to pieces. He says, 'In Mexico, our glasses are so cheap we don't need to drink with the same one twice.' The Arab, obviously impressed by this, drinks his beer, throws it into the air, pulls out his AK-47, and shoots the glass to pieces. He says, 'In the Arab World, we have so much sand to make glasses that we don't need to drink With the same one twice either.' The blonde Cornish girl, cool as a cucumber, picks up her beer, downs it in one gulp, throws the glass into the air, whips out her 12 bore, and shoots the Mexican and the Arab. Catching her glass, setting it on the bar, and calling for a refill, she says, 'In Great Britain, we have so many illegal immigrants that we don't have to drink with the same ones twice.'

Arch Enemy - "My Apocalypse", after that Therion - "Son of the Sun". Contrasting metal styles with female lead vocals.

auteur

Talking to yourself again ?

How many of us on this forum are alive because of vaccination programs in this country ? If we are to follow your logic they should stop as well, as should IVF, transplants, and any attempts at resuscitating heart attack victims. All examples of interfering with natural processes.

It's a pity that, as usual, the Heil has got it's figures wrong, the UK had previously pledged $1,114 NOT £2Bn http://www.gavialliance.org/resources/GAVI_Pledging_Conference_PR_and_Key_Outcomes_June_2011.pdf. Maybe that is too much, and maybe others should do more, but this is still typically shoddy journalism from the Reactionary Right.