John Smith

There we go, idiot number 1. Didn't go, didn't want to. Next, like I said, this is easy!

What a whole load of bell end polishing we have going on on this thread. Problem is, none so thick as those that don't think, and most of you are sheep, just copying what the last one said. If you think that the crowds would return in there thousands when Lowe left, you are clearly fools of the highest order. Now, get into a huddle and come up with your best no brain retorts. Can't wait, it'll be like shooting practice with a 5 year old in goal.

September 1980, home game versus Everton. We won 1-0 with a Keegan penalty, taken at the Archers Road End, kick went low to the Keepers right.

So, Lowe is the Chairman that got us relegated to the CCC, he was the Chairman in charge taking us toward League 1, he was the guy that was the figurehead of the group that has prevented our club from being sold. How much did he want from Crouch for his shares? Lowe was NEVER going to sell, Lowe was NEVER going to be a man manager. The millions spent trying to get us out of this division were largely because it became very clear that NOBODY was going to pay the asking price for Lowes shares for a CCC club, it HAD TO BE a Premier club. We had NO ALTERNATIVE but to go for it in the last season of the parachute payments, because if we didn't get promoted and sold, we would be going into administration! I thought that was ABSOLUTELY f**king clear 2 f**king years ago! We argued the case back then that Lowe was a dead weight around the neck of this club. HE returns with all the pomposity that HE was going to save us from the incompetent previous boards and steer us to a 'play off' place! The guy is THE MOST DELUDED INDIVIDUAL I have ever had the misfortune to have anything to do with! In this last year what has he achieved? F*ck ALL! His first season in the CCC what did he achieve? F*ck ALL! His last season in the Prem, what did he achieve? F*ck ALL. SO, we have had 3 years mismanagement from Lowe and 2 years from others that were attempting to rip SLH away from Lowe. We begged to be returned from a PLC company because it was crippling us, and now Lowe supporters are lording up this move because it may save us a 10 point penalty we deserve for going into admin. Don't get me wrong, if we can avoid it great, but this will be the ONLY positive to come out of Lowes reign. Lowe has been the chian around this clubs neck for more than 10 years and Askham has been the brick at the end of that chain. Add Wilde to that dead weight and we were NEVER going to survive. Please, all those that Lord Lowe up, please, look at where we are today and the MAIN PRINCIPLE of that position is LOWE, NOBODY ELSE, Lowe put us here, and we all saw it coming, like a big f*ck off train crash happening in slow motion. Pull your head out the guys arse, he destroyed us! But now we can rebuild. For the love of Saints, stop defending him and let us unite, because until you guys let him alone and let us bemoan him as a failure, we cannot heal and we cannot go forward. Let us sl*g off the man we hold responsible for this clubs downfall, let us grieve properly for this club and let us come back fighting. Stop defending the one man who is indefensible in some people's eyes, HE MURDERED THIS CLUB! LET HIM SWING!

Not asking for him to call for unity at all, just to be the fan 'he' claims to be. Maybe buy a box for the remaining games, maybe donate some of that payoff money he got last time, maybe donate some of his wages for 2 days a week work! He's taken and taken from this club in the guise of a supporter, time he put something back, don't you think?

And when there's no money to be made, where is Lowe? When people are 'donating', where is Lowe? When this clubs supporters need to unite and turn up, where is Lowe? He called himself a 'supporter', where is he now?

Through all this bluff and counter bluff, we have to remember that, as many on here told us, there IS NO better alternative to Lowe. We have to remember that there are no 'potential' buyers for the club because otherwise, as many on here told us, Lowe would have agreed to sell his shares. Now Lowe has gone, like said before, we are dead in the water.

It's strange how people are abused so, when 20mins after the game, there was not a sole left in the Stadium! Surely you have to stay for 'at least' 30mins after the game has ended in order to applaud your team after they have showered and changed! I thought it was then customary to wait by the players exit in order to carry their bags for them to their cars? And so, on that basis, these fans waving their 'plastic' wallets for their season tickets in the air, are in fact, no better than those they jibe. And they should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if they really are a true Saints fan, because from here, it looks like they're just part timers...

So, now we have people on this board acting as though they are the 'fan police'! Give it a break you little children. If a grown up wishes to return to SMS now, then he/she will. If that grown up wishes to remain away for another game or two, that is up to them. And if, shock gasp horror, a grown up has decided to do something else on Saturdays now, well b*gger me if grown ups aren't making their own minds up nowadays! Who'd have thunk it! The day the police turn up on my doorstep and demand that I prove that I said I would return when Lowe goes AND that I will return on the basis of this, will be the day I laugh my head off! I think there are a few burnt prides out there. And those that are hurting the most, are the ones being so defensive and doing all the finger pointing. How about, you shut up, and go to the game and stop your 2 year old temper tantrums and spitting your dummy out the pram! People will decide what they will do with their own lives, not some gimp on a message board!

As much as I would love to say 'I told you so', I am not the type of person to criticise fellow Southampton supporters for having a different opinion than that of my own. We have yet to see the end of this chapter, and who knows, the next chapter 'could' be worse than this one, in which case, any echo's of 'I told you so' will rebound and bite you! And so, IF this chapter ends with the departure of Lowe and Wilde (for good), then you will not hear too much in the way 'I told you so' from me. It will be over and whoever was right and whoever was wrong, I don't think we will know the full story of events for some time to come, if ever! Lastly, I hope Saints don;t receive a 10 point penalty and that we, with Wotte in charge, go on and escape the dreaded drop this season. EVEN if we do go down, I will be there next season (work permitting) to give mt support, shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the fans! AND, I hope that we can fill SMS for some time to come, in doing so, creating a 'new' atmosphere in the ground based on a common togetherness that we shall not be defeated!

I haven't commented on this for a while, as I didn't want to curse it, but I did feel as though we wouldn't go into admin before the end of the season and for many reasons. The main thought that I had was after the January sales that we all feared, didn't go as badly as the financial reports suggested, ie, we would have to sell to keep creditors happy. And, on top of not selling, we also recalled Saga and started to play Euell and Skacel more regularly. I wonder, have the board at SLH convinced the bank that IF we stay up, we can continue paying the debts, as we'll have extra in the coffers from the TV deal next season AND that if we are relegated, they'll lose substantial amounts of money through our administration. In which case, the bank may have given us just enough rope to play the game but also to hang ourselves with IF we are relegated. With still several games to play and such a small margin again, I feel, dare I say it, 'optimistic' that we can stay up. The kick up the a*se that Wotte dished out to the Reserves, shows me that he wants everyone at the club to be 'up for it' if called upon and that the slightest drop would possibly cause our relegation AND put us in administration. A risky game if this is the case, but we will only know if it was a worthy risk on the last day of the season. If my feelings are correct, albeit more technical or financially controlled, is this a show of 'risk' from Lowe that many on here feel he should have taken with WGS after the Cup Final? Is this Lowe pushing the boat out one last time, a last throw of the dice to keep us afloat? If my guesswork is correct and it is a sh*t or bust hand we are playing, fair play to Rupert, even if it is perceived that he is doing it to save his own skin and income. Survival is a must, and I think the end of this season could be as exciting as one of our famous escapes of the past! A nail biting ride to the end of the season ahead with many more unlikely scenario's to play out yet, I'm sure! Injuries, suspensions, rumors of take overs, plus aliens landing on SMS pitch and prevent a certain goal! Well, the soap opera we've seen of late, NOTHING would surprise me. COYR, you can do it!

Actually, it's ok! I see my mistake, silly boy, so I shall correct it. I think it's worth straightening out the misunderstandings in case people continue reading it. In my original post, I used "beta" in the sense of regression coefficient, not the specific CAPM sense of regression coefficient with the market. In this sense, if I knew the true beta, it would be the variance-minimizing hedge ratio. That is, Y - beta*X would have the smallest variance of any portfolio composed of X and Y with weight 1 on Y. In practice, you estimate beta. That makes it essential to consider the correlation coefficient as well. Suppose I am hedging a basket of stocks that has correlation 0.8 with the S&P500, and correlation 0.1 with a 10-year treasury bond. Say the standard deviation of the basket and the S&P500 are the same, and eight times the standard deviation of the 10-year treasury bond. That means the naive variance minimizing hedge is 80% of notional for both the S&P500 and the 10-year treasury; but the S&P500 is likely to be a very good hedge while the 10-year treasury is about equally likely to increase as decrease variance. Phew, I hadn't realised what total tosh Jonah actually spoke until now, but at least it makes sense, but I think I can safely say that the above realisation clearly shows this!

Thanks Jonah! Well, that's at least 20 seconds of my life I'll never get back. But, it did serve a purpose. I can now communicate with you in the same language, so, I have a questions for you - I am curious about the relationship between correlation of two data return series (r1, r2) and the "beta" resulting from a bi-variate regression (r1=a+b(r2))... Particularly I am concerned with constructing an "optimal hedge ratio" (expected return of a portfolio consisting of r1 and r2 equals zero) using these simple concepts... Which would be better for constructing such a hedge, beta or correlation? It is my understanding that correlation is the average linear relationship between two variables (r1, r2) and that a regression delivers a more robust "hedge value" as it takes into account a constant term that may have statistical significance. This would lead me to believe that the regression output of Beta would be more reliable (and also better in terms of descriptive measures, ie standard deviation). Added insight would be appreciated.

I've had a brilliant time this season, not football related, been to many different places, spent more time with the family and been a better person for it. Ithink some people on here still miss the point though. Not going BECAUSE of Rupert Lowe does not mean that when he leaves I will return. It means that I have discovered other parts of life that I didn't really enjoy doing before but now spend more time doing them and planning them. And when Rupert leaves, all this means is that IF I decide to go to a Saints game again, I can. Rupert has destroyed this club for me, he changed it from what it was to what it now is. It brings the worst out of people in the area, it is a problem, not something to be proud of, he is the man that led us on this trail of destruction and changed it from a family 'club' into this 'failing' 'business'. It's too hard to bear to turn up week in and week out in the knowledge that the man in charge is not the man to change things around. To keep ploughing money into this club and see it turn to dust and then have the manager turn round and criticise the fans for being stay aways. B*llocks! The man who ruined this club sits up there behind you! (sometimes). He is scum, he is the reason this club has died, he is the reason we are failing! Until he goes, we cannot heal, we cannot even begin to look to the future again, because whilst he is here, this is as good as it will ever be. And I don;t mean the league we are in but the temperament and the ill feeling in and around the club. And it's going to take a lot to heal those wounds. Lowe is scum and he does not deserve my support. The business failure that he has created does not deserve my support. In fact, in Lowes market economy, this Business should already have gone under, it's only because it's football that it's been allowed to suffer for so long.

I think you'll find that this thread was doing just fine until your 'nationality' post. I have been viewing this website from afar of late, the posts on why people don;t post anymore were very interesting reading. And so, in all fairness and balance, I choose to write my first post in weeks to point out that it was YOU that ruined this discussion, it was YOU that hi-jacked this thread, it was YOU that used comments unsupported by evidence, it was YOU that has become a little boring. Hope that's clear prof!

Oh dear, oh dear Jonah. You brought your kids into it, not me. You used them as an example, not me. And if you want to differentiate between 'beautiful' naivety and plane old naivety, then that's your hang up, not mine. Being that ruffling her hair is because she is beautifully naive is therefore beautifully patronising. And as for following Darrens 'lead', on calling you a bean counter, I've always called you a bean counter, but then that was just you being deflective, as was suggesting I was 'attacking' you though your kids (you brought them up, not me) just because you wouldn't follow the mob mentality (never suggested that you should 'follow' anyone or anything, that was you deflecting the argument away from your back tracking). And whilst I'm on the back tracking part, careful Jonah, you're back tracking so fast, you'll hurt yourself as you back out of the forum altogether - "getting involved in organising a march is actually quite impressive in itself"- Wooooh boy, careful there, that was almost a compliment as you back tracked. You suggested he was too young and naive to do this that his experiences in life and understanding, (blah, blah, Jonah clap trap) and then you suggest that you wouldn't have been capable of doing this at the age of 16, like I said, maybe it's because your parents patronised you from a young age! Let me back up, you accused me of attacking you through your kids, when YOU are the one that dished out the advice to Connors parents by suggesting that when he brought this march business up, they should have ruffled his hair and sent him on his way! Good for the goose and all that. Lastly, the Theo Walcott thing. Well, it is quite plausible that he could go onto become an England International, BUT I think it is more plausible that this Connor could organise this march than ANYONE play for England. But equally so, BOTH were proved to be REAL by them actually happening! No hair ruffling required and neither had to wait until they passed your age test to achieve their goals. Lastly, maybe, just maybe, the reason why someone so young had to drive this was because us older 'more worldly wise' people, have been pontificating, whining and blowing smoke out of our ars*es for too long and it takes this kind of black and white approach from the mind of a youngster, to push all us stale old fogies into action. And maybe, using your words, it was BECAUSE of his 'beautiful' naivety that this collection of like minded souls can congregate together in order to collectively vent their opinion in an organised and popular manner. Bean counter for me relates to all that stuff which crushes and dashes things like imagination, dreams and inventiveness. Because, if we were to listen to the bean counters all the time, we wouldn't be able to achieve more than we do today, because the quantitative calculations don't support it. But that model does not allow for the probability of success only the certainty that success is not guaranteed. How about taking 'a gamble' on an outcome, and no I don;t mean at the bookies. I mean, taking a chance, taking a risk, GASP SHOCK HORROR! I hear you cry, as this type of talk is tantamount to treachery! Jonah, I wish you well, and I am not directly 'attacking' your parenting skills. I do hope that you are less of a bean counter to her than you are on here, and that is probable, particularly when you described your house or room (sorry, can;t recall which, but the one you have done up for her). Kids need dreams because their reality is so different from ours, but you know that, but it IS still a reality, just not ours. And if you're like me, although not wishing to be 3 or 4 again, wish that the world was as, well, less complicated, as it was then. Too many worries and stresses for us to concern ourselves with now we are older, to be able to enjoy being naive and getting away with it. Be naive with her, it's fun! But like you say, lock the windows and doors and be safe in your naivety!

OK, if you you are serious about this process, define the process and the criteria that you are suggesting. Supply a list of candidates and let us chose. If you then say there is a process for interviews, define that process for interviews, who is on that panel and what is the criteria they will be following. If you cannot do this and then someone says Crouch, how can you say no. That defeats any criteria that you have specified. And if someone suggests another name that hasn't come forward, you can;t say they haven't shown interest. Come on TDD, this is just a ridiculous criteria you have laid out. Argumentative? Antagonistic? And like I said the other day, that;s what most do on here to gain a response. But, if you want serious suggestions, 'define' the selection criteria or suggest a selection list. Don't make your cake and eat it, share it around.

Doesn't surprise me that you even patronise and snear at your own child and her 'naivety' Jonah. Bean counters are the worst amongst us for not having dreams and hopes and numbers and facts are all that counts. As for 16 year old school boys, with their heads in the clouds, let me remind you of Saints supporter. At the age of 16, a young Theo Walcott was banging them in at SMS. I was singing his praises and chanting his name. You obviously felt he was too young and just laughed at his young naivity and would have patted him on the head and told him to go run along and play with the schoolboys. AND, if he were a real dreamer, he may have said to his parents, at the tender age of 16, 'I'm going to play for England one day!' Thank God you weren;t his father, because he would've heard you laughing behind his back after he had supposedly gone to bed. And better still, maybe you would have slated him on a fans forum for TRYING and for having DREAMS and AMBITIONS! maybe you thought Wayne Rooney was a little schoolboy too, playing football in the big mans league. Maybe you laughed at Arsen Wenger for wanting a future England International in his team. Maybe you roll on the floor laughing because you have such a little aspiration for your young child(ren) and maybe that's a lack of belief your parents showed in you. Me? When my daughter says she's a fairy and can fly, I believe her, I call her my little fairy and my little Princess, because SHE IS! Just because the blind and patronising can;t see it, doesn't mean it isn't true. For crying out loud, you're a horrible, horrible man! Snearing at your own child, you make me puke! And for what it's worth, my daughter will be whatever she wants to be, and until she reach's an age where she realises that the world isn;t full of morons such as yourself and that life's a b*tch, I will let her go on believing. Because we can achieve what ever we want to if we put our minds to it, and there will always be the doubters, the snearers, and the patronising. Funny, I don;t remember you patting Rupert on the head and telling him to run along when he said we were looking to push for a play-off place this season and that he would turn the finances of this club around. What's that I hear you say? It's OK to be an adult and bullsh*t people if you don't actually believe it, but to have hopes and dreams that you can actually change at the tender age of 16 is just a fairytale! Well, I hope you don;t read your daughter bedtime stories, because they're probably the ones from the front page of the news about death, war, poverty and economic crisis. Can;t have her growing up one day and turning round to you at the age of 16 and suggesting she wants to achieve something important! Christ, what would you do, pat her on the head and tell her to run along like you suggested this kids parents should do. You pompous TW*T!

I understand your point of view, and I agree. Question, do you think the comments attributed to Wotte will effect the protesters in such a way that they will abandon their plans? And, if they do not effect the protesters in a positive way, why would he comment in the way he did? Because to me, the comments made by Wotte, do not help the situation, and if he's not helping the situation with his comments, why comment at all? Just do the job on the pitch and give the fans something to cheer about and then see them return. Surely, that is the best way to answer the critics. Then after winning the next two games he mentions, turn to the fans and ask for faith and support.

It really comes to something when you read forum posts in the local rag. I take it Wotte either did not see or refuses to acknowledge that probably the most poignant part of the protest last time, and the piece covered widely, was the elderly lady giving up her ST. I have not criticised Wotte up to this point, and worst, I have suggested that he comes across badly at times. I was even going to comment on the thread about him going to War and point out that at the end of the article, he'd admitted they'd made mistakes and was trying to put them right, even in his a*se about way, for me, acknowledgment of failure, is the first step to recovery. But then this! Balance tipped, respect lost. Uber fans and kids, man, isn;t that just rattling the cage of the upcoming protest. This guy either just doesn;t understand the situation OR and IMO is deliberately insighting the fans! And I say this because of the Wilde threat incidents, the way Lowe treats people and our current predicament. Has ANYBODY got any links where such a long list of attacks has been placed against the fans??? I'm sorry but this is close to deliberately in sighting riotous behaviour. This maybe a bit extreme, but you keep adding up these comments and eventually he is going to flick the right switch, push the right (self destruct) button and boom! We have ourselves all out fighting and ABH! I'm in no way condoning this reaction, nor calling for it. I suggest, that people are encouraged to call this man to task through the proper channels and that is to write to the club and the local MP. This guy has been here 5 mins whilst some of the fans he is patronising have been supporters of this club for 30 years and then some! If he doesn't know this, he is the dumbest, thickest must stupid man ever to have managed in the public arena. If he does know this, then it is deliberate incitement and he should be brought to task NOW! If you think this is over the top from me, think about Wilde and the threats made against him. Real or not, there are obviously people out there that want to do harm to this club. Let's make sure those people are contained within the club and stop the scum from leaking out. The jury on Wotte is now out for me, he has lost my support. P.S. out of interest, I suggest we start looking at his public comments in his previous roles, this could give us some important insights of his previous failures! COYR

My guess is that we are talking about football as much as we possibly can. When nostalgia threads come up. People love to post their stories. But today's football is pretty ordinary, we started to get excited about Surman and Lallana, but they have purple patches and quite possibly can;t carry the weight of mediocrity around them. Because I don't go, for whatever reason, as like 15000 other Saints fans, we don't 'see' the football to be part of it. I cannot honestly comment on a players ability if I wasn't there, even the TV camera's don't give a true representation of how a player has played. So, where does that leave us? Here, I'm afraid, squabbling and fighting amongst ourselves. Why? Because we can't fight (debate) against other teams in our league and opponents because most have now conceded that we're not going to win. We can't discuss tactics decently, because we don't really know what ours are, or our strengths, we only know our weaknesses. We can't talk about those all the time. Then there's local rivalry, we can't even slate Pompey for how bad they are at the moment, because they've got someway to catch us up, regardless of how quickly that may be if they get relegated this season. Frankly, we have no hopes and dreams, we can't see the end of the tunnel and of course we'll turn on each other. And I can hold my hands up and say that I have been antagonistic from time to time. I try and keep to the topics, I try and give a balanced view, but ultimately, in order to draw a debate on this site, you have to be slightly controversial otherwise we've seen it, read it, argued it. And quite frankly, sometimes it's good to get those frustrations out. I still refrain from swearing and getting personal whenever I can, but sometimes you just have to join the 'others', just to cheer yourself up from time to time. However, the point that so many reasonable posters are playing this game and sticking with it, is a good thing, because we need good posters, because when things turn around again, we need to be able to talk about all those good things about football. And we ALL hope there will be a SFC next year, and the year after etc, but things ain't great at the moment, we ALL know that, we ALL see that, we ALL just don't agree why.

Ah, you mean because I'm not a total waste of space. Then you're probably right. Equally, I rarely venture down the pub since I stopped going to games because I prefer to go to restaurants with my family and friends, than have a punch up in the city center. Or are you suggesting that because I am confident in my abilities, can hold an intelligent conversation and am not a total waste of space, that I don't qualify for being funny? To be fair, if you were in the same pub as me, I'm sure most would be laughing at anyway, so guess you're right in that instance. Anyway, enough of this verbal jousting. Truth is, I don't care what you think, so I'm off to the pub to drink a non-alcoholic beverage. But then alcohol is banned over here.

Unfortunately, you either have it or you don't. No secrets, no book, no internet link. And behind all the sarcasm actually lies the truth that I have been successful, just that it is me that determines what is success or failure, not my peers on a message board. I suggest you start looking at yourself, rather than others for confirmation of your status in life.

And that goes for most of the posters on this forum. They will only achieve poor or average status in their posts and will be nothing more in their lives. It is sad that most on here will not have any sort of a career, will earn a pittance in their jobs, be lousy parents and might as well not bother trying, judging by their posts. Me, I prefer to strive to be excellent at everything I do. I may fail at some, but I will be good at most and brilliant at some. But if someone told me that I might as well not bother just because I was good at something else, I'd stick my fingers in the air to them and do it anyway! I'm surprised that so many on here right off someone without even letting them try first. Wotte for example, I haven't written him off, I've sat back and watched from afar. I haven't judged him, but I do have an opinion, but that is more in regards to his comments in the press rather than his actions of his job. So, why should I write MLT off, before he's even thrown his hat into the ring, let alone managed 1 game. But I guess I'm not so narrow minded as some on here and am probably more worldly wise than most.

As much as it would give me a direction for my ill feeling at the position we are in, I don;t think Lowe is doing this out of spite. I actually believe this is as good as Lowe gets. He's giving his best and he's just showing us what we already knew: He's not good enough! Anyone that says there is no one better, I'd counter that with suggesting you'd be hard pushed to find someone worse. Lowe is a poor poor leader, has made poor poor mistakes, makes countless poor decisions and when the heat is on and the need for leadership is required, the manager leaves, head coach goes on garden leave and the transfer market is in full swing, where was our divine leader? Skiing - You are having a larf! Get this idiot OUT!