John Smith

I see my little pet troll is back. Hi little John Smith Junior, is this love that I'm feeling, are you pulling my pigtails again. You are very cute, the way you keep following me around, trying to get my attention, but I am married, so, let me pat you on the head and send you on your way, there's a good ittle boy. Oh, and by the way, I was saying, it was unique FOR ME. Didn't say it brought success. It's just a shame that you are so young as to not remember the Dell. But never mind my little trolling friend, there's many a youtube post that you could look up. It's nice to see you getting yourself a few lapdogs though, Must make you feel important, lol. Have you apologised for being totally wrong in our last debate and calling me names and abusing me, even though you were out of order? Do you ever, to anyone? No CB, you are a troll and you live in a hole, now jog on little boy. D*CK!

Without getting drawn into this whole 'anyone but Lowe' debate, purely because I think each individual, that puts themselves forward, should be debated on their own merits, do we really need to 'learn any lessons'? I mean, the whole Wilde thing was debated at the time, as it should've been. If someone else comes forward, then we will undoubtebly debate them also. The thing that gets me is that people that 'support' Lowe, ask for names that 'could' replace Lowe, when they are given, they then ask for information on how this person would do it differently than Lowe. Now, I understand the need to ask these questions, when you support the current Chairman (be that because you 'like' him or think he is the best option for now), but seriously, in asking these questions, what do you really expect as a response? Detailed manifestos and pledge's? At the end of the day, let's all agree that Lowe is doing a job. Some think as well as anybody, others think badly. These are opinions based on some tangible knowledge and evidence, and this tangible evidence can be viewed in different ways. The truth is, IF Lowe was never voted back in and someone else was given the charge, it is very likely that they would have done it differently to Lowe in some area's, the same in others and maybe not even have done some things that Lowe has done, I suppose, they may have done some things that Lowe hasn't considered. We all have to accept that, as I have to accept that Lowe is in charge. So let's drop this, 'anyone but Lowe' debate. It's infantile and unquantifiable. IMO, a chimpanzee would do it 'differently' to Lowe, doesn't mean that's better or worse. And before anyone jumps on that and says I advocate a chimp instead of Lowe, I'm not, I'm simply using an analogy, in relation to the expression, 'if you give a 'chimp' a typewriter, eventually it will write the entire works of Shakespeare'. Now, the people that said that, aren;t saying a chimp could do a better job at writing plays than Shakespeare, and in no way suggesting the Shakespeare may have well been a chimp, just that it is possible. So, please accept that someone, somewhere, may do a better job of things than Lowe. It is also possible that they will do a worse job than Lowe. But there really isn't a debate in it, because unless someone comes forward, then all we have is Lowe. Some will then say, let's get on with it, others, like me, will say, that I won't go then. But then, that's a debate, so I won't go into that, because I will be accused of being logical and talking sense, and I can;t have that now, can I?

Hmmm, is the Sundance back? The one I used to debate with and agree that we could quite openly discuss things if we were neighbours, without digressing into verbal abuse? The only thing that still gives me doubt, especially with your last comments on cancer. You attacked me for suggesting that, at the end of a well constructed post (IMO), I intimated that "my only solace is that RL will die before me". You accused me of many things, when all I was suggesting, rather than all of those killer diseases, plagues, natural disasters and war, if old age gets us both (which, IMO holds no malice), then in all equality (ie, we both pass on at the same age), RL should pass on before I do, thus giving me X amount of years without Lowe being in charge. It was totally not suggesting in anyway that I wished Lowe dead, and I have never suggested that he dies in any pain or any tragedy, especially because I don;t wish that on anyone and never would. So, I understand if you were wound up that day, but similarly to you, sometimes I am gobsmacked by people's perception of a post we make. I hope you (with the return of SB) find it in you to place these comments of mine into some sort of context and maybe we could engage in debate once again? JS

This thread highlights the real highs and lows in Southamptons history. Some would say never look back, some say looking forward is difficult, others use the past to remind us that it's not always been about the Prem. To me, this reminds me of a period in our history where we were going forward. Like in '84, we were progressive. The thing that I find hardest to stomach is that we've seem to have lost our uniqueness. we can compare ourselves to teams like Sunderland or Norwich or Portsmouth or whoever, but for me, Saints were unique. Everyone seemed to love the passion in our game. Our attacking flare as it were. Many seasons would pass where I could compete against my Arsenal or Tottenham supporting mates by betting them that we would score 50 goals before they would. Of course I would always win, but then we'd also concede 50 goals before anyone else! It wasn't just about grit and determination, it wasn't about attack, attack, attack, it was about cold, wet, floodlit games at the Dell. The crowd on top of the pitch, and as one big family, cheering on, what seemed like, our boys. We have lost this, and in some way, maybe it was our success, that has brought about our downfall. Dare I say it, maybe it is SMS that has taken the soul of this club away. Sure, we weren't going to survive without a move to a larger, better facilitated stadium, but, in doing so, we left behind our uniqueness! From now on, we will only ever be as good as Sunderland or Norwich, we will never be unique again, and maybe, this will lead us to be also ran's instead of the club that was everyone's favourite underdog, because at least we got behind our team, no matter the results.

IF the Chairman of a Football Club, wishes to know what his managers intentions and tactics are for the big Monday Night Live Game on Sky, he does it the day before or even the night before, NOT 5 mins before. I'm sure JP is professional, whatever you think of him. He would've been getting the lads training to play a certain way. Having your boss looking over your shoulder just before you're about to execute your plan, DOES NOTHING FOR YOUR CONFIDENCE! (I wrote this in upper case because I hope Lowe will read it) JP, on the sidelines, looked battered last night, with Lowe breathing down his neck as he is, I'm not surprised. If Lowe is interested in tactics, players, positions etc, he should go round and visit his manager at least the night before the game. Doing it at the game, in front of the camera's is just about as wrong as you can get. Before Lowe supporters claim other Chairman do it, Sam Hamman from Cardiff is a completely different character and is in the dug out or behind the goal because he is a fruitloop and the managers don't take him too seriously AND the fans rise to it and support the team more when he's doing his clown impressions. However, Lowe does not adhere the supporters to support the team more and he can;t seriously believe he is going to have anything but a negative influence by chatting to the manager when he's trying to get the boys ready for the game. Lowe is a clown and does a very bad impression of a sane person. He is a nutjob of the highest order. Anyone who thinks he should have anything to do with football AND believes there is nobody that can do better, is equally a nutjob, IMO.

I very rarely comment on the games, the players, or the coach, as I don;t go to games, but last night, from a 'watching on TV perspective, oh dear. As said above, James is probably not the best RB in the league, BUT, he was the ONLY player that consistently tried to get passed his man. Generally he did it in the right area of the pitch, and got them turning, on another day, could've got a pen for the ankle tap when it was 2-0. On other TV performances, James has always looked like he's been caught in the headlights (IMO), but yesterday, he was our biggest threat, real shame about the mistake for the third, but that's football. Surman, never got the rub of the green last night, good attitude, but couldn't penetrate into the dangerous area's. Rudi looked determined, even if there was no end product. I think that determination is becoming frustration and he wants out asap. Pearce, oh dear. This is the trouble with playing youngsters against 'old men' (Kuqi), the little nudges in the back, happens all the time at all levels, but by this stage, the CB of a CCC team should be able to cope and have a way of dealing with this. But because of his lack of experience, he learnt this lesson last night. A good player, but highlighted the problem of 'learning on the job'. McGoldrick, WTF! What was he doing? Where was he playing? What was his role? Now those questions may be answered by the manager, BUT, whatever the reasons for his nomadic role last night, it showed him up to be lazy and disinterested. Lalana, closed out, not allowed to play, think the clubs are man marking him as he is our biggest threat. In essence, some pretty football in the first two thirds BUT, no cutting edge in the final third. NOBODY seems to understand how to beat your man (exception being James - RB). This doesn;t have to be taking him on, but movement and timing. Many, many times when the ball was passed and the movement was forward, the player with the ball, turned away from the return pass and went sideways or backwards because this player was not marked. This happened all day, and this meant we didn;t take risks, didn;t take the game to them, never penetrated, never threatened. The only player wanting to get goalside was BWP, who looked bright and determined, never fell his way. God I wish he had the determination of his father though, some chances need to be made, the grit needs to be between your teeth, there needs to be aggression and a desire to score. But, he was still probably the most likely source of a goal. JP, looked like a man on borrowed time last night. His whole world is collapsing and there's nothing he can do that he hasn't already tried. These kids may go on to become good footballers some day, but yesterday, they were not clued up enough, not clever enough, not good enough. Where does that leave this club? Not having a go at ANY of them, I just think that they are out of their depths. We will see performances like James' from many of them over the season, trouble is, we need that type of performance from all of them, every game. But they are kids, and that isn't going to happen. Like I said at the beginning of the season, best we can hope for is inconsistency. I think there may be 3 worse temas than us in this league, not sure there's many more though.

I must say, I am surprised by Ruperts comments. As the Echo described it, Saints have been handed a 'windfall' 3rd round tie. And if we did rake in £500k, as the article suggests, why would this not lead to Rupert making a positive comment? No matter the math, no matter the 'what if' we beat Coventry etc, etc. We need money, JP asked for one of the big 4, it will probably be on TV (unlike Saints v Coventry in this round), there will probably be a full stadium, WHAT MORE COULD YOU ASK FOR IN THE 3rd round? I am gobsmacked at the negativity. Someone have a word with him, this is a GOOD THING, nothing to do with the last 2 years, idiot!

As I said on another thread, I believe that seeing as it's the season of good will, maybe, we should consider what that means to us as 'fans'. If we are men enough (and ladies), we will all turn the other cheek for this game and all accept that, this tie is a good thing for the club and for the team. Whatever your stance, on any part of this club, be it the Share Holders, the chairman, the manager, the players, the staff in general or the fans, we should ALL put our squabbling aside and join me in raising your glasses in wishing Saints 'ALL THE BEST' for this game! I know it will be a dream for many of our youngsters, to pull this plumb tie, and at home at that! And so, regardless of divisions in the fanbase, they should be playing in front of a capacity crowd that sing for 90(+) minutes, regardless of the score! Put aside the credit crunch, put aside the cost of Christmas, put aside the telly, if you can go, please go. Now I'm sure that many on here will ridicule this line, when I don't currently attend, but as a showing of good faith, I propose this: I would like to see all ST holders given the opportunity to buy a sensible amount of tickets (2 or 6, whatever), then the members, then those that have been to games this season and lastly, to those that go to the games over Christmas. I would love to see St Mary's buzzing, as the underdog takes on the Champion once again. We've done it before, the underdog has certainly done well this week in the cup, so why not a Saints win, here's hoping. As for me, I fall outside of those groups above, and believe I don't deserve a ticket. But, because of my sentiments, I am happy to accept that the ground HAS to be full, I offer that, IF it looks as though we won't get a full gate, and IF people on here (those that are usually against my stance), want me to go, I will, and I'll pay for a ticket for me and 1 other. I hope those that don't usually agree with me understand where I'm coming from - I will not go, unless there is a large feeling that I should. If you decide that the ground will be full anyway, and I should stay the 'f' away, fair enough. All I want, is to show good will, and hope those that go, see a good game and the ground is full. And for all those that do go, have a good day out and cheer on the youngsters.

No matter who you are, or what your 'political' stance is on the club, there is no doubting that this is an early Christmas present for the the whole of what encompasses SFC. The financial repercussions will be welcome to the business, and the playing side can look forward to a mouthwatering tie that some of them have only ever dreamed about. I can imagine JP will find it difficult to keep some of the lads heads focussed for a short while, and those youngsters must be pinching themselves. Let's hope it spurs the squad on to all be fighting for a starting position over the Christmas period and get some good results. On the fan side, those fans that have been going week in week out have been handsomely rewarded for their loyalty, and although many fear a beating, I'm sure they are looking forward to the day and are excited about the occasion. In this season of good will and kindness to ALL men, isn't this a game where the fans bury the hatchet, get together as one, and on the day, regardless of the scoreline, sing the youngsters home for 90(+) minutes? I suggest that whatever your stance, on whatever subject, you put your prejudices aside for this one game and make the day a memorable one, regardless of the score. Let's face it, EVERYONE who has anything to do with the club, be they the Chairman, the manager, the players or the fans, could all do with this lift. Let's not ruin it for them. JS

Definitely Mark Wright and Big Dave Watson. Some come close, very close, Killer, Clause, Ken Monkou (Shadow!), Dean Richards and even Neil Ruddock was very good for us, we re-started his career, then he went to Spurs and onto Liverpool.

OK, taking that rationale, and presuming that those 25 people that are boycotting because of Lowe, start to turn up regularly, how long will it take before we then became a 'viable concern', turning in a 'modest profit'? Are we talking months, years or decades? OK, for ease, and a good one for the accountants and mathematicians out there: Q. With an assumed average attendance currently at 15K per home game; i. How many additional fans will it take to turn our fortunes around and return a profit? ii. Seeing as this can be a tiered/cascading response, please show the terms implied eg. extra 10,000 fans for 1 season extra 20,000 fans for 1/2 a season NB. The key here is amount of extra fans over how long a period (time) will return a profit for SLH (no matter how small that profit) IMO, this will take a lot of fans over a pretty long time, but I may be wrong and am happy to accept that. And, I think this is relevant to the 'Administration inevitable' thread title.

I do find this all very amusing. It just goes to show how some people like 'control' and can't cope when they are unable to control the situation, other people, the dictionary, people's right to choose. I won't even bother replying to GM's mail, think it speaks for itself, first by him suggesting that he can 'state' that I am not a supporter, and then goes onto confess that this is in 'IMHO'. These two are contradictory, when you take into consideration that I was stating that I have every right to call myself a Saints Supporter, because that's what the English Language determines that I can call myself. If GM wants to write and publish his own dictionary, then by all means, we can all have a good laugh. Apart from GM's obvious floundering so as not to provide an apology, the other bit that amuses me is the stance of those that think I'm not going because I want to hurt the club. Well no, and I have stated this umpteen times, especially to the two Nicks, but for some reason they don't understand. So, here we go for the 20,000th time, maybe Nick(s), you could read and digest this once, so that when you comment on my posts, you are actually talking about me, rather than your perception of a rabid anti-Lowe supporter: I have no issue with people still attending. I have no preconceived idea that we are a Prem team, I had filled out my ST application and believed that that would entail supporting Saints in the 3rd tier, before we secured safety. I have no problem with the team, and I don't comment on who we should or shouldn't buy or anything like that, because I'm not in the position to say so. I don't criticise JP and I don't criticise the youngsters, nor the older ones, maybe, at a push, I have suggested that a better mix is required, but I don't know if I've actually stated that on here. I lost my passion to attend when Lowe announced his return. I don't want him running this club (badly IMO - see how I use those 3 little letters), and I felt so strongly about that, I decided not to hand in my application form and decided it was just best if I didn't go. I had often wondered, in the past,what would fill that 'gap' but, Lowe coming back timed nicely with my new family, getting married and having a baby, my time, and money, could easily be well used up by supporting my family more. This, I have no problem with, my wife loves it that she doesn't lose me to football anymore and my baby gets to go to more places with her mummy and daddy rather than just mummy. Time and money well spent I believe. Now, it's not that I'm 'witholding' the money, and I'm saving it in a big pot somewhere or an Icelandic bank, but actually putting it to good use elsewhere. So, if Lowe does go, will I rush out and buy a ST? Probably not. Will I start attending odd games again, probably yes. If I get the 'bug' again, will I buy a new ST? Don't know. IF Lowe stays, will I rush out and buy a ticket if we are on the verge of promotion? No. Will I buy a ticket because 'fans' on here tell me to? No. Will I feel bad if someone calls me a non-supporter or anti-Saint? No. I think those people are a little sad and must have really lonely, unfulfilled lives. I, on the other hand, am very very happy. My family are lovely, my job is great, my career is coming on leaps and bounds and in fact, right now, am negotiating a massive contract (in regards to advancing my career, rather than the money side of it, although still very favourable in this economic climate) with a massive European client, having already secured and delivered on some great work and created opportunities with a UK based International company. I am, so to speak, doing very well thank you, and like I've tried to show, for me, it's not 'all' about the money, it's about quality of life, getting the balance right, supporting your family and loved ones, because they are the people that support you. This club does not support me when times are hard, and I bare it no ill feelings or loss because of that, but I will not throw my money away and go against my principals, just because a few outraged 'fans' can't believe I have a life outside and away from football! Look guys, you all need to chill out a tad and stop asking me to justify my decisions, I have done and really, it is getting tiresome. I will not return whilst Lowe is in charge, end of. I have no regrets, no ill feeling, nothing but love and happiness in my heart. If you can't understand that, fine, I'm not asking you to, I'm not even asking you to agree BUT, please refrain from trying to stamp on me as if I was some sort of idiot who is out of his mind because he choses not to give (what is it now being called? Used to be a ticket when I went) 'financial aid'. Come on guys, are you really serious? You want me to 'donate' 'financial aid' to a PLC? No, Saints will live or die as determined by the law, the rules and it's ability to attract customers, just like any other business. For me, life will continue whether Lowe is there or not, even if we go into administration, I will still hold my family, friends and career above 'donating' to SLH PLC. This doesn't make me not a supporter, maybe in some people's eyes, opinions and own dictionaries, but I don't care about that, why, because when someone asks me which team I support, I don't ask them if they mean, financially? Morally? Vocally? Aid benefit functions? Charity Functions or Armchair, but then I guess some do. I just reply "Southampton mate", then I get that usual pitiful look that I've experienced for donkeys years and then I tell them how many times we've beat their team, which great players have played for us, how many England captains we had on the pitch at one time, great goals, great wins, etc, etc. That will never be removed from my memory, and I will never stop supporting Saints. So a big two fingers up in the air to all those that think I'm not a Saints supporter, I don't care!

I'm sure this is not aimed at me Nick, as you know that I rarely talk about loans, purchases or sales, other than maybe, the crown jewels approach, but not specifically relating to the immediate team. I do this because I believe that others are in a better position to comment on that than I. Also, through not going to games, I can#t honestly say. But then, I don;t, other than to say I hope they do well and succeed, which I have done many times. But NickG, you forgot to add, 'IMO', at the end of that, because it is clearly an opinion and not as you have worded as, that IS childish, or an excuse. You really do need to get off that high horse and chill out a bit. There's nothing you can do about it, my dear friend. Tonight, for instance, I won't be sulking or cutting off my nose, I will be eating dinner with my wife and sending my lit'lun to bed early. You never know, I might get lucky! And who knows, maybe there will be a further pitter patter of feet in 9 months? So, there you go, add that one to your list, making a family, sh*gging the missus, or just spending quality time with the ones you love. But then again, my wife still prefers me to be at home with her than going to watch 'silly football' (her words, not mine, and no she isn't a supporter). Give it 20 years and she might just prefer me to watch Saints! Not just yet though hey, gotta get the practice in whilst you can!

Ah, we have a definition of supporter, as defined by GM. "FFS, don#t try and call yourself a supporter" OK, let's see what the dictionary says - 1. a person or thing that supports. 2. an adherent, follower, backer, or advocate. But, oh no, GM has a different definition or dictionary that says something else. Well, let's try another link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person) And here you will find that the word supporter has been transcended by the more commonly used word - Fan But let's not hide from the fact that a supporter can support a team or a person, or a group, or many other things, does this mean they all go to Games. Geesh that would be fun, going to watch the Labour V's Conservative game, where would they play. I wonder how rallying cries of support have faired over the years where teams have requested a show of support, how does that fit in with the GM code for Supporters? "Here yee, Here yee, show your support for your local team, unless of course you don;t already go, where in which case F*ck *ff" Oh, I can see how that would go down well. GM, you may well have a different definition of supporter, but I'm sure many Saints supporters around the globe would take offense. And what about the young, the old and the poor, is it FFS too on them and they should hold there head in shame for not attending under YOUR determination of what 'allows' them to call themselves 'supporters'. Well, I'm glad this forum wasn't around when I was a lad, because you would've told me I wasn't a supporter. Oh, unless now you claim that you actually meant, you can call yourself a 'supporter' if you pass the GM viable fan criteria, where an age and a poverty line are drawn, and if you fall into it, then you are an honorary supporter. But this is means tested each year, just in case someone calls them self a supporter and they actually aren't. A simple apology should suffice GM. One word, sorry. I could go on, but I choose not to, is that ok?

Who on this forum has the RIGHT to tell me how I should support my team. Who on this board has wrote the 'Guide to Supporting Saints', or is it part of a secret society oath that the rest of us don;t know about. When I started to support Saints, I couldn't go to every game, I couldn't go to many at all - 1 for my birthday, one for Christmas and possibly one other. My parents had very little money and going to a football match was a special occasion, not the norm. As I got old older and old enough to work, being a cleaner of offices at 15, I funded my own travel and ticket money and went every week, home and away. Nowadays, I have commitments, I have responsibilities and I have a set amount of Personal Disposable Income, and I will choose where I direct that PDI, and I certainly won't throw it away. As a responsible parent, with financial commitments, I cannot justify paying to go to a football match which I cannot enjoy. I cannot justify not enjoying the spending of my PDI, it is a waste of money. If Lowe wasn't there, I would enjoy watching JP trying out his tactics, the young lads working hard to win for the Saints, but I don;t, because there is a massive shadow hanging over SMS, and that shadow is cast, IMO, by Rupert Lowe. Now, I do realise that 'some' of the posters on here are on a windup and some are obviously in it for other reasons than because they support Saints, but for those that truly are Saints supporters, I say this: I will choose whether I go to games or not. I will determine what makes me happy in life. I will be the one that determines what constitutes me being able to call myself a Saints fan. And for those of you that don;t accept or can;t comprehend this, or feel that they can lay insults at my door, just because I am not a supporter in their eyes, grow up. I am a FREE man and I will choose what I want to do, and if you think you're stupid petty name calling will encourage me to return OR prevent me from returning, then you need to learn a little bit more about life. Maybe it is because I was brought up so well by my parents, that I recognise that going to football match's should not be regarded as the norm, but as a luxury and that because of my upbringing, I am less willing to chuck good money after bad in someone I don't believe in. This 'I'm a better fan than you' really is getting boring and tiresome. It really stinks of PR plants, and in some cases, people that are directly effected by the lack of supporters. And for those of you that aren't Saints fans, but are here for the money, you will get found out. And those of you that are on the board, hiding behind a keyboard or paying someone to post on here for you, will also get found out. That will be a great day and one worth turning up at SMS for!

So, why do sooo many on this forum 'blame' the sayaways? Why, because it's another moan for the Lowe supporters to roll out. Then, they don't need the sayaways to return, then, they want us to all go top away games. Get a dog, he'll do tricks for ya! As for me, I'll do what I want, when I want ta very much. Staying away is showing the board, and for whatever your reasons, it's having an effect, and like I said, the sooner Lowe leaves, the sooner we can ALL get on with saving this club. Hence the word 'if' at the start. But then, like I've said before, how do we know how many are staying away because of Lowe, let's face it, NOBODY knows. So, isn't it worth Lowe leaving, just to see, let's face it, it can;t get any worse! If Lowe left and the gates increased by 500, AND we don;t have Lowe in charge, isn;t that worth smiling about!? Who's to say it won;t be different this time, 1 things for sure, with Lowe in charge, Saints won;t change for a long time, maybe through relegation and then administration, but then Lowes taken us down before, so no change there.

So, if he leaves soon and the crowds return, maybe we can avoid administration. The sooner Lowe resigns, the sooner this club can be saved. Do you understand? Lowe is the stubborn one here, he won't be here in 100 years time, but if he leaves now, maybe the club will be around then. If Lowe leaves and the crowds rise, maybe we can avoid selling the family jewels?

So, a new word to use as a slur on fellow fans - "anti saints". I like the idea that you are someone in authority and has subordinates beneath them, because somehow, it's a do what I say because I'm right and you're wrong syndrome. I can certainly see the similarities between some of the Lowe supporters and Lowe himself. I think it stems from the way he dismisses his customers out of hand and doesn't listen to the concerns of those customers because the 'brand' will sell regardless of what a few think. So, it doesn't matter that I return or not, because in your mind, the club doesn't need this sort of fan, and I'm glad. I'm glad that by me staying away, I am not missed, I'm glad that my money isn't needed, and I'm very glad that I'm not effecting the 'business' that is SLH FC, in any way whatsoever. So, thanks for allowing me to be absorbed of any responsibility, at least I can say, that 'at least' 1 Lowe supporter doesn't think that I'm killing this club. Because, frankly, whether you think I am anti Saints, or not, makes no difference to me, because that is my 'personal choice' how I support my club, and if I choose to become a fan and watch from a far, I am totally happy that my family benefit from that decision. Like I've said before, I'm a family man, and Saints used to be a family club, not anymore, as it is no longer a club, but a corporate machine, I bear no regrets. And now, as a fan, absorbed of any 'impact' on the club, I am even happier. Oh, and as a 'by the way', if I choose to return to SMS, for whatever reason, you know what, I will. "News flash - Saints fan makes up his 'own' mind on something shocker!"

A good response to my jibe, I hope you got the gist of my (flippant, throwaway) comment though. IMO, you took a stance in the 'anyone who wants Saints to lose, isn't a true Saints fan', and applied that stance to fans that no longer attend. Just because someone choses not to attend, does not mean that they want Saints to lose. The two 'opinions', as stated above, are not reliant or equal to each other. I used my example in the same way, and although deliberately factually incorrect, and because you responded, does not necessarily, make you a plant, if anything, it would only be someones opinion, that because you responded, you must be a plant. So, I took resentment at your statement, because, even though I don't go to games anymore, I have supported Saints for 30 years, been to more games than I care to remember, was a ST holder at SMS, and (when younger and had less responsibilities) followed Saints Home AND Away, in fact, saw many a trouncing to the likes of Man U (but beating the likes of them at home, was always sweet). And so, even though you missed the point, I think if you re-read your initial post, you'll see that you bundled those that want Saints to lose and those that no longer go, into the same bucket and commented on them equally. I have NEVER stated that I want Saints to lose, so please, argue your case as to why this is your opinion, try not to make flippant posts that are there to incite if: a. you want a real debate b. you are not a PR plant The same applies to my previous post, but then I get it!

The FANS have not killed this club, only a PR plant would claim such a thing! How much do plants get paid nowadays? Is it worth it, do they realise they are being used like Lowes bitc*es to sing from his song sheet. The PR plants must be from poopey as no average football fan would want to cause this much antagonism to a fellow supporter who is distraught at HIS clubs lack of LEADERSHIP. PR plants are the scum of the earth. A true saints fan wouldn't respond to this post, but a PR plant would use it as a platform to attack a true saints fan. Over to you Red & White Army, Plant or no plant?

I have a question(s). Seeing as Lowe demanded his return in order to protect his 'investment', what now? Or, is this how Lowe expected it to go? If it isn't, has he not failed? Again? The following question may then be raised - when Lowe admits that this 'comeback' to save his 'investment' has failed, will he do the honorable thins a step down, without taking a golden handshake? Or will he remain ignorant all the way through to the point of administration, and then bail out, jump ship, run away, so that his name is not the one on the door, as a Chairman that took his Business into administration? Sad, sad days being a Saints fan, my only solace is that Lowe is likely to die before I do.

absolutely magnificent, has brightened up my whole day! Thanks Tim!

But then, that's where we have to agree to differ. Your rationale, if I've understood it right, is that by filling the ground (whether that's 18 or 30 thousand) will mean that the banks will ease off and administration will be staved off for that time in which the crowds continue to come. That's just a synopsis, and apologies if I have completely mis-understood. My counter argument to this position is that, if by going, I allow the very person I believe to be dragging this club down, to have 'more' control, then I believe administration will continue to happen, but under the watchful eye of Rupert Lowe. Now, let's assume that what Lowe 'invested' in this club was 6% of the shares, and somebody out there will tell us exactly how much that initial input amounts to. He has been in charge for 10 years, in that time, he was very handsomely paid, got bonus', obtained a dividend, plus, raising his profile, his image and all other things that go along with being a recognisable 'figure head' and finally, getting a nice cash, lump sum pay-out, for failing this club and not doing the right thing and stepping down. I think, this initial 'investment', has been well and truly paid back. 'Anything' that Lowe makes on the sale of his shares are well and above the initial investment he originally put into this club. So, where does that leave the 'argument'? IMO, Lowe isn't here to 'save' his investment, he is here because he 'wants' to be here. He is here not because he wants to 'save' Southampton, but because he views Southampton ass a Business opportunity to experiment in different area's. Now whether that's a 'boy with his toys' mentality or a Business interest, or a managerial lesson, I don't know. But one thing is for sure, from my perspective is this, by turning up, week in, week out, regardless of who is in charge or what direction we are going in, my support for the team, translates directly into 'support' for the Chairman. Why? Because, only through 'our money' can Lowe follow through on his 'policies' and IMO, those policies are flawed. For what ever reason Lowe is doing this, the outcome for Saints will be dire. We won't EVER be a force to be reckoned with, at any level. IMO, Lowe believes this anyway, and in order to accept that you will never be competitive, you have to adopt a plan that 'rewards' failure. This is bourne out through the academy. We will never sign 'good' players and we will sell our best youngsters, for top dosh, and then invest in a few more 'kids' a couple of journeymen AND return a dividend. This, my friend, is 'the business'. Now, you may argue that this is the best we can ever hope for, but me, I want 'hope', I want 'dreams', I want to believe, that on a good day, with lots of luck, Saints may just win something, and I would hope that those in charge would want this too. However, those in charge view success in football terms as a bi-product as a success of the business. This, for me, isn't 'sport'. This isn't entertainment, this isn't blood, sweat and passion, this is turning up, week in week out, to watch a business grow, or fail. Dull, very very dull. I can do that at work, and they pay me! And so, whereas some fans will turn up week in, week out, just because it says Saints on the outside, I can't avoid looking deeper and when I do, I don't see Saints soul anymore, I don;t see the 'underdog' mentality, I don't see the desire in our clubs heart to want to improve for next season, I think that vision has been stripped away and it will never return. And even if Saints begin to climb the table, I won;t return, even if we get promoted, I won't be there, even if Saints look like surviving in the Prem, I'll be at home, loving my family, spending my money on things that makes others happy, why? Because I'm a family man, and I support a 'family club', but that community of 'love' for our club will never return whilst Lowe is in charge. So, I will not donate my hard earned cash to someone I see is using it to destroy this 'family'. In short, 'my money' will not be used as a mandate to rule, 'my money' will not validate this choice of Chairman, 'my money' will not keep this club afloat for the benefit of the few, at the expense of the many. IMO, when it comes to family and Sport, this approach is wrong, wrong, wrong. But I appreciate the debate.

I think you have to build in other factors as well. When I said that I was not renewing my ST, I was quite sure that I was being told 'good riddance', 'the club doesn't need you', 'nobody will even notice', etc, etc. I had made my decision back in MArch/April time and I am sticking to it. I can't see where my stance has changed, or anything that will convince me to return? The club made its decision to bring back Rupert, I disagree, I disagree so vehemently, that I won't be setting foot in M whilst Lowe is in charge. Just because I have my view and opinion, doesn't stop anyone else from going though, I have no issue with people supporting the club financially, I just chose not to, and let's face it, it is a CHOICE. I put the word 'choice' in capitals because, if we, as supporters, are not free to chose whether to go or not, then surely, that would be a dictatorship? We would be 'forced' to go, even though it is against our principals and better judgment. I haven't seen these figures of 200k per month before, where did you get these from? Have they been released to the shareholders? In fact all this stated information - "The month on month losses have now reduced to below 200k and if someone would take the likes of euell, skacel or Thomas of the books it would help greatly. Cost reduction (wage Bill ) is key critical to the bank continuing to support the overdraft , The alternative is the Bank pulling the plug. If attendances increased to 18k or above for every match ,the club would be making a profit and the bank pressure would be gone. If this could happen before January I feel sure we would stand a better chance of keeping certain players in the team that we all want to keep." You seem to be quoting a lot of 'facts' there, have you spoke to the bank about this? 18k, is this a new break even amount? Or is it just supposition based on the guesswork of some that the break even is 17k and therefore we must be making a profit at 18k? There seems to be a lot here without any actual facts, now, if this is your opinion, fine, I respect that, but you must also respect my decision not to go. Choice is the key word here, and I have made mine, it's up to others to make theirs and I feel that Lowe is in a really tough position to change people's minds on this. Many asked him to go the first time, he was replaced by someone who said he must be removed at all costs, and now, there they are, both sitting at the top of this club, looking down, looking down on us fans, begging us for our support. I don't want you here Lowe, and all the time you are, I won't be.

My last post for the next 24hrs, so please 'try' and understand. In 'addition' to my previous post, and in response to your latest post, please take it as fact that I WILL NOT BE COMING BACK TO SMS WHILST LOWE IS IN CHARGE. This stance is even IF were were in with a shout of the play-offs, promotion OR Champions League. No means No. OK, little bit more, I have not uttered one word against JP and his management team. I have not said one negative word about the team as a whole, my only slight criticism, some months ago, was that I felt McG, would be a more potent striker if he pushed into the channels, was more direct and stopped dropping so deep to collect the ball. I don;t wish to debate the players at the oent, as I don;t see them week in week out, I have no real idea of how they play. BUT, they do have my support, I will not put them down and I will not criticise, and this is mainly due to the good reports I read on how well they are performing in the effort stakes at least. From what I've seen on th TV, they give everything, every game. My problem lies purely with Lowe and his decisions, I will not criticise the team for doing what they've been asked to do, I criticise the man that has brought this upon us and I disagree with him taking this road. So, I will not show my support, in the only way that counts to Lowe, my money. Trust me, if I was allowed in for free, I would be at SMS, shouting my support every minute I could, I was there relegation season and I did sing for nearly all the game, every game, Norwich at home, what an atmosphere, what a win, what a shame we couldn;t survive after that. I was there last season as well, as a ST holder still, I even missed the last game against Sheff Utd, due to work commitments, but made sure my seat was used by a Saints supporter on my behalf. I love the Saints, but cannot find 'any other' alternative to vent my point of view, other than not renewing my ST because Rupert Lowe is in charge. If you've seen my Summer postings you'll know that I had filled in my ST application before I knew we were safe in the CCC. I had already decided to pay for a ST with the acceptance that I may be watching Div 1 football. It didn;t and doesn''t matter. What does matter is that I believe that with Lowe at the helm, this club will NEVER be able to achieve whatever it is that it can achieve, he is the wrong man for the job, and I will not support this bungling fool.