John Smith

That is quite worrying actually. Surely this good news won't be soured by the FL not allowing a single individual to be involved in more than one club. And then, he pulls out of Saints deal and sticks with poopey! Secondly, what if a 'business opportunity' has been identified here, 2 for the price of one. Combine the 2 teams and double your money and supporters, whilst halving your outlay, next step: Southmouth FC or Porthampton United!

Whereas I understand the knee jerk reaction to this, I think you should remember that due to Saints not paying their creditors (local business), some families are struggling to pay the bills and may well be laid off. Are we suggesting a ban on all that is SFC (SLH)? As much as I despise the banking institution, they exist for one reason only, to make money! Just recently, they failed to do this and the whole fecking world has collapsed! I hate banks!

FWIW, I have had my opinion of MJ for some time now. Having sent me a PM way before he got heavily involved in all this stuff and his melt down on this site. What I can tell you, is that I know business he was talking about and the clubs he mentioned. However, I would say that his 'view' was wildly exaggerated. Not saying he lied or made stuff up, just that his opinion on certain 'matters' were IMO, extremely over inflated. So, what does this lead me to believe this time? I believe he is involved. I felt that whilst all was quiet, that maybe he' learned his lessons from the Bournemouth debacle. But, we're starting to get these 'snippets' once again and I fear that those MJ insecurities are raising their ugly heads again and he is reaching for the self destruct button. Because, one thing you know, if you've watched this forum and MJ with interest, is that MJ doesn;t go quietly, you see the storm forming in the distance and it starts to roll in. And then, all hell breaks loose! And MJ will spit the dummy and storm off, taking his ball and all. His intentions are pure, I'm sure, however, I tend to disagree with MJ's vision of reality and so am not 100% convinced that this deal will go through, but there is potential. But for the fact that it maybe the only deal on table, I wouldn't even be reading this thread. I am wholly disappointed that Saltz or Davies have not entered the 'race', apparently, they're not even at the track! All this nonsense about them wanting to come in after the horse has bolted is all bluff and nonsense, because the only thing of any worth by that point will be the land value, hence the small offerings. And if they only want to come in, in order to build houses, then it may as well be Lowe! MJ, is the only horse in this race, I just fear that even in a one horse race, the horse won't make it to the finish line! I hope to be proved wrong, because, at the moment, it's MJ or nothing. And seeing how MJ has never delivered, looks like it's nothing or nothing!

And finally, GM and 19C climb into bed together. Over time, I have watched this relationship grow and now it has blossomed into one of those stories that Mills and Boon would be rightly proud of. I think we all knew it would come to this one day, as many of us could see the love/hate relationship from those early days and just waited for it to go the distance. Well, now we are here, and we can judge GM and 19C as one and of having the same opinion. Who spun whom, who is the submissive one, who backtracked and gave up their opinions and sacrificed their right to chose? Funnily enough, I think 19C won, but then after his PM to me about GM, I think he has been casting his net for this moment for quite some time. Hope you guys are happy trolling together, keep it up and good luck to the both of you.

I haven't read all of this thread, but wanted to say, £14m! Is this a direct quote? Is this £14mil up front or a down payment (£8m) with the proof of the means to service at least circa £6m? I can't recall, and please provide evidence with links if at all possible, as I am truly interested, of any other club where the payment required by the administrators was as high as this? £14mil seems an awful lot of money that has gone into administration because it couldn't service it's high debts and is now in an even worse financial position to service these debts if a new owner is found? The bulk of this 14mil, cannot come from the bidder, surely? And I wouldn't have thought the creditors would expect the business to find 14mil over a short period of time, when it had a consistent overdraft facility of about a 1/3 of that total and are now, potentially, operating at a lower income from ticket sales and TV deals? In short, is this £14m figure an accurate, upfront figure? Because, if it were and I wasn't a fan of SFC, I can't imagine any Businessman, looking at our situation and believing £14mil was a great investment in the bargain basement of clubs in administration! How would I recoup that 14m in a realtive time frame PLUS invest on the squad in order to advance and make more money. So, throw in an extra couple of mill to help us compete in this league and some more to guarentee promotion (look at Leicesters squad), with purchases + wages + bonuses (win and promotion), 1 year of 'investment', plus the £14mill purchase, in order to gain promotion to the CCC, will be close to £20mil! For a L1 club! No chance!

It is a good subject to get your hands on! But anyhow, what with MB's avatar and Ladysaint proclaiming she's go with anyone except some strippers, I have to say we've deviated somewhat from the question raised by NickH. So, to sum up, I think we'd all agree that we'd get into bed with anybody as long as we didn't mention their names!

Oh, I'm sorry if I've confused you 19C, you obviously have your own agenda you;re trying to force on this thread. If it helps for you, I will fill in the gaps you so conveniently omitted from your attempted cyber attack. Yes, I stopped going when Lowe returned, in fact I believe he had already made more than one mistake when he came back and so had already had his second chance with me. Also, i did state at the time and continuously, that I hoped that Saints would succeed this season. I wished that we would be pushing for promotion, I wanted us to win every game this season and desired to avoid relegation and administration. In short, regardless of my personal 'opinion' on Lowe, I wanted the club to succeed regardless and did not distinguish between success under Lowe or success under anyone else, the way you measure it should be the same. And so, what you have enabled me to do is now throw this back in your face, and ask you to vocally support Crouch at this time. He deserves a second chance, like I gave Lowe, he deserves our respect in trying to succeed, as that means saints survives, just like I hoped Lowe would succeed and it wouldn't come to the point where we are now. You must now practice what you have preached all season, swallow some of that 'Lowe is the only option to save us' opinion, and get on with eating some humble pie. Some of us saw this coming, some of you are still in denial, get over it. Regardless of why we are where we are now, when someone tries to help, you should be thankful for that help, IF that is, you want us to survive? Unfortunately, by the looks of things, I doubt that you do.

Nick, I'll use your post as an example, but by no means am I attacking you're opinion, you're entitled to it. From my experience, some of the greatest, most successful businessmen of today are those that have failed in the past. I am a true believer of failure, in that, having experienced it, you can see it coming again and you will be more prepared not to fail this time. Learning from our mistakes is a natural human trait. Touching a hot iron, or kettle or tap, when we are young, we know that we shouldn't do this again. The fact remains that the 'danger' exists, but we are more cautious of avoiding it. If Leon were to be involved in Saints in the future, I would give him a chance, as I think his 'experience' for any knew 'naive' investors will be invaluable. I'm sure Leon would not want us to get to this point again and will recognise all the warning signs that says we are heading this way and act accordingly in advising the new owners. Of course, there is that rare breed that recognise failure and cannot find fault in what they do, and will continually react in exactly the same way, each time the same scenario raises it's head again. And yes, that is directed at Lowe, but not in a bashing him way, just in the idea that I could have learned to accept him 'if' he had learned from his mistakes. And the best way to do this is recognise the part you played in that mistake AND DON'T MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN! That is the sign of a fool. Someone who keeps getting his fingers burned on the iron but does not recognise their own failure in repeatedly touching the said iron. Check if it's on, if it is don't touch the shiny bit! And if it is working, it ain't broke, so don;t try to fix it! And so, even though I am sure there are strings attached to the covering of wages, maybe this is why the bid needs to go from 8m to 9mill, I have no problem with this, without it, we'd be dead already. Give Crouch a break, everyone deserves a second chance, from what I can remember, Lowes had 2 goes, Wildes had 2 goes, Crouch has only had 1. He deserves our respect and understanding, because he is actually doing what none of us can, KEEPING SAINTS ALIVE!

I think it is worth mentioning again, that Lowe declared that he was willing to spend about that same money that season (January?) as his hands were tied the season prior due to lack of quality player(s) available under Rednapp. We only purchased Fuller for 90k as Rednapp was unwilling to spend more than the odds for Clinton Morrison, probably a wise move considering the value we ended up getting out of Kenwyn Jones the following season, who surely wouldn't have got a look in if Clinton had been there. Then we would never have received £6mil + Stern John in return, who, did score the goal(s) that eventually saved us last season. Wow, how events spiral and connect when you break it down!

I may have a pick in an old program in the loft, along with a video of a goal he scored against Man U in 1989 or 1990. It was a goal scored 6 mins from time and secured our league 1 (premiership) status that year. Set up by Glen ****erill and tucked nicely in the bottom corner. I remember it well as it was in front of me in the Milton and the video has been played over and over as it was the loudest roar I ever heard at the Dell and was a magic moment. Quality!

It shows that Mark Wotte has skills in the Technical Director role. He is showing to me that he can negotiate and communicate with his staff. I like what I read. However, if I compare this with his management skills and communication to the fans, the jury is still out for me, but for League 1, who knows what we want or need, I don't? For now, Mark Wotte is doing all that can be expected of him, and more. Fair play and good professionalism, well done.

Interesting information really, because I thought that's what was said at the time, as this comes as no shock to me. In fact, I'm pretty sure that when the 'offer' from Crouch was made, we all knew it involved Wilde stepping down and Lowe stepping back, because to invest 2 million into a club and let Lowe and Wilde spend it on another SCW or JP, would be less rewarding than sticking 2 mill on a nag to win the Grand National at 100-1. So, we're back to where we were when the 'offer' was originally made. It wasn;t really an offer but a snipe at the current board, who could waste money as easily as the next man (and the last in this matter). In fact this information could be put on a par with the FF post on what Lowe said to the chap on the street, it makes no difference to the current situation. IF Lowe had turned round and said he agreed and Wilde stepped down and paid the 2 mill as well, only then would we know if Crouch was actually bluffing. Me, I think Crouch would have found the 2 mill somehow, just so as not to lose face. The fact that it was highly unlikely, if not impossible, makes no difference to me, I think the 'offer' was to show Lowe and Wilde that Crouch would not put a single penny of his own money into the club whilst these two held the reigns, be that 2 mill or 2 pence! Still, it makes a great yeehaw for those Crouch haters and Lowe luvvies to get together again once more, hey ho!

And this is the other side of him (Lowe), as even if he thought we were peasants, I would fully expect him to treat us decently, as any professional should do, in an environment that promotes the club. It doesn't detract from the idea that he was actually thinking, when he had this conversation with you - "this catering is superb! Must remember to limit the amount dished out to these peasants I'm talking to, tripe will suffice." At the end of the day, I reckon the story is probably true, but he who said the guy shouted "watch out Lowe you c**t" probably is closer to the mark and Lowe responded with what is stated above. And for that, I hold no grudge with Lowe about this, having dealt with the French for many years, insulting them is a past-time, but I enjoy their company and love visiting Southern and South West France whenever I can, but wouldn't speak to them badly unless they totally insulted me first.

OK, I understand that Pompey fans may be be overjoyed out our demise. I understand that the worm may have turned. I forgive the pompey fans for reveling in their moment in the limelight and I hope they enjoy it, we've had that pleasure for far too long. BUT, this is a Saints forum and I need a place to moan to fellow Saints supporters. If others want to participate and add their well intentioned peace, whether I agree or not, then fine. But admin, can we please ban people that use this board to 'continuously' taunt us! This is our sanctum and letting a pompey fan into that inner sanctum is sacrilege. Burn Him! Or at least remove his wheels!

Frank, I think what you've said is correct, "The very fact that they are trying to unite the different factions si a bloody good start" - However, until they unite and form a body, there is nothing to 'get behind'. Chorley has been down this road before and it faded off into obscurity, probably through no fault of his own, but he can;t come back with the same idea and after 6-8 months, have made no progress whatsoever. Nick I, ok, don't know the guy, but the Trust, where has it been this season? I don;t believe all this, 'it's a legal entity, recognised by the...' because I've heard it time and time again and yet, nothing, nop action, no fan on the board, no protests, no flyers etc etc. If it is going to get together with X Y and Z, then what do they stand for? What is their policy, how do we join, what do we get for joining, where do I sign up, where's the website, where's the literature, where's the spokesperson, who's in charge? And I think that those that criticise on here are right to, equally, those that support it are right to, but Derry did ask for opinions, and he got them, he asked for opinions based on the knowledge that a few people, that some like (LM and MC) may get together with some other people (NI and RC) whom some like and some dislike. They have nothing more than that to go on, so 'opinions' are going to be wide and varied, I think Derry has to accept that. What I say is, if they have convictions to do this, go ahead and do it. Then they can ask people to join. Build it and they will come! If they don't, what have they lost? They tried, they failed? They tried they succeeded? Surely, at this stage, a 50-50 gamble is worth a go? But until they give it a go, what is there to get behind and support? At present, a meeting between some people, some that we've heard of and some that we don't know about, that's all.

OK, an opinion, warts and all. Firstly, we've been here before, so instead of announcing that here will be a meeting to discuss whatever, if action needs to be taken and it's a last ditch effort, then just do it. Have the meeting and set it up. The viewpoints on this forum are meaningless without something concrete to get behind or criticise. From a neutrals perspective, I can't see what there is to debate, the various groups haven't yet united, we don;t know what sort of bid they want to put forward, I don't see any framework, the SMS and Jacksons farm stuff is confusing and if I was to pledge my backing, I wouldn't, at this stage, be able to identify what I'm backing. And if I was to send money, I wouldn;t know what that money would be used for. Again, from a neutrals perspective, the major issue I have with the trust is this - where have they been all season? We have been desperate for money and desperate for support, but they have been silent on the matter. I would like a detailed explanation for their inactivity. Why? Because if they can't act when they are on the outside looking in, how the Hell would they cope on the inside and all that pressure. If they can;t organise a campaign to Save Our Saints this season, prior to administration, how on earth are they going to rally enough support and cash to buy the club? Bizarre! And so, to conclude, from a neutrals perspective it does very much appear to be about back slapping and look at me. IF they want to form a group that takes action, do it, if they continously have meetings about meetings that meet to discuss the next meeting, then no bid will be placed anyway. My opinion, there is nothing to get behind (yet?), and if we discuss it on an open forum about possibilities, I want to know why there was so much in action this season, it doesn't look good.

Does the overly aggressive manner help compensate for the smaller than average manhood? There, there, there, calm down little boy, let me pat you on the head and send you on your way, you little scalawag.

I hope it didn;t come across as LOADSAMONEY, because I certainly haven't! But what I have, I have worked hard for, was the message I was trying to get across. Also, I was just covering everything so that I didn't have to continually defend my actions of not attending, it get's boring, as I hope constantly referring people to this post will get for them. It was a lot of detail, but I think everything is covered now, and, as a bonus, it looks as if 19C is taking time to respond, thus preventing him from trolling elsewhere on this forum. I think you'll join me in my interest in 19C response, I have a feeling it will be full of insults and claims of all sorts. But, he might surprise us and actually step down from this argument with me and let me live my life how I choose to, not how he wants me to? And as this is my last post of the day, he's going to have to waqit a long time for me to reply, if I bother to at all.

We are where we are today because of me? Let me remind you of last summer, it was 'fans' like you that told me my non appearance wouldn;t make the slightest bit of difference to the attendances. It was 'fans' like you that told me I would come crawling back when we got promoted. It was 'fans' like you that told me 'my support was not wanted and I should stay away'. So, now the dust is settled and the club is in admin, exactly what fans like me were saying, you now turn that around and claim it is my fault. Classic. I blindly threw my toys out of the pram? How come? I said, if Lowe returns, I won't. He did, I didn't. I didn't make a song and dance about it, I reiterated my opinion to 'fans' like you several times, because you could not comprehend that someone would not stand by why the man responsible for this whole mess, is now back in charge, promising ridiculous things, like promotion, financial security and Dutch revolution, took us into admin. Let's face facts, I said this would happen with Lowe in charge (I warned of relegation and admin) and I said I would not stand and watch this train crash as some sort of voyeur. Enough was enough, Saints were going to die a horrible death, a disastrous season and Lowe would blame everyone else once more. I cannot support this man, I cannot give him my hard earned cash to make decisions such as JP! The supporters that still go to SMS, I respect, I applaud you, but I could not do it. And in that decision, I didn't criticise the team, nor the players all season. I din;t make this decision to make me look like a smug smartar5e, but because it was what I felt was the right way to show my disapproval. No protesting in the streets, no letters to the board, no aggro, just no show, it is my right to choose and I chose, just in the same way Lowe chose to come back, I chose not to. And for all your chest puffing and boring rhetoric 19C, I hold NO responsibility for where we are today, why? Because I am no longer a 'customer' of SLH. If I am not a customer, how can I be responsible? Am I a shareholder? No. Am I an investor? No. Am I a ST holder? No. The most I have to do with Saints now, is on this forum, where I like to talk about things like my first game, where I was when Hillsborough occured, the great goals I've seen, the fantastic wins we've had and the disappointing results. In fact, when this forum stops talking about Lowe, I will halve my postings, and if you check, I am still not a full member and rarely reach my 3 posts a day quota. Like I said, because of Lowes decision to come back, and my response to not return and people like you tllingme good riddance, I explained that my life would move one and I would embrace life without attending games. And so, to your last point, I have not returned because I have other things to do. I don;t detail them because of idiots like you out there and I would fear for my families life if I detailed my comings and goings in order to justify myself, which I don;t need to do. Rest assured, my family and my work now take up a lot more of my time. I have excelled at work, reigning in awards and thanks from VP's and directors alike, noted on quarterly calls and updates with my dedication and professional abilities in my field. I have received special thanks in these economic times for my ability to bring confidence to a very edgy industry, turning unhappy clients into referenceable clients and also being mentioned commonly on client forums and reccommnded through these forums. In fact, it wouldn;t be a far cry to claim that I am the best in my industry for doing what I do, and I can claim this because that is what thousdands of clients tell my manger and the VP. Not only is this the best they have received from my company, but the best delivery they have witnessed ever in their careers. And yes, I am blowing my own trumpet, but that is what I have been achieving whilst not being at Saints games, working on Saturdays to go that extra mile. Also, with my wife supporting me 100% in my career push, I have been able to treat my wife to some special gifts through my monetary bonuses on top of my quarterly bonuses. I am treating her to her second holiday this summer and we will go away again before the year is out. I have also travelled the world this season and posted on this site from at least 4 continents, one day I will let Dubai Phil know I am in Dubai, but only when this whole Lowe saga is a distant memory. My daughter goes to a private school and a very well respected one and she is only 3. I have investments that are working, even in this climate and I am renewing my car next year as well as upgrading it and buying my wife a new car. I will also be restoring my sports car that is in my garage, which I never get round to doing! And the key for me, and the main reason for probably never being a ST holder again, is because, due to my hard work and endeavor, economic crisis allowing, I will be moving away from the area in order to provide my family with a country life and a house that is a dream of my wife. And I will do it. And now, all this other stuff, family, family outings, holidays, work, hobbies, socialising etc, has replaced my desire ot return to SMS, as I said it would and as people like you told me not to return anyway, so surely everyone is happy? At the end of the day 19C, if I want to go to a game, I will. If I choose to buy a ST again, I will, if I decide to purchase a box, I will, if other commitments mean Saints are lower down on my list and I never return, so be it, I am happy and loving life, I have achieved so much if you look at where I come from and my 'difficulties', and at the end of the day, if that's what it is that winds you up about me 19C, I couldn;t give a flying duck. I do what I do because I choose to, not because someone like you posts ona forum and calls me a few names. 19C, I suggest you too get a life and maybe you;d stop sniping at all of those who make decisions in theirs that upset you so. Get over it, you don;t control me and will not stop me from going to games nor change my mind about not going. Have fun writing your response, I'm sure there will be numerous insults and belittling, but remember this, against all the odds, I succeeded, and I will continue to succeed, because that's what I do, I am a lucky man, and I know it, luck comes my way all the time, and by belittling me, rather than swallowing your pride and realising that I am just and average Joe that has done well, you will show yourself up to be a troll. But if you recognise that what I have achieved is what I set out to do when I stopped attending and that I achieved my goal even in this economic downturn, then you'll probably realise that I've done well and should be congratulated, because it hasn't been easy.

So, at the eleventh hour, in the middle of the night, Crouch gets a knock at the door. Through the darkness, Crouch can make out the figure of a poor street urchin, face thick with coal and rags for clothes. As the urchin holds out his cap, he asks Crouch: 'Please Sir, can I have some more?' Even though the face of Lowe on the image of a street urchin, begging for money, does put a wry smile on my face, thanks 19C! I don;t think for one single minute that Lowe would've gone on a begging mission in the eleventh hour, with cap in hand, to the man he despises, and chopped from the board. And in taking that money, would relinquish ANY power whatsoever in SLH. The question surely remains, why was Lowe SO stubborn, that he INSISTED on getting Wilde (of all people) to knock Crouch out the way, promise us stability, tell us that he was the messiah and he would save us from Admin, push for promotion (yes he did claim this), and then, when everything was falling down around him, sat at his desk and DIDN'T even ask. Lowe, cap in hand to Crouch, don;t make me laugh!

I don't get this post, by that I mean, the 'situation'? If nothing is happening, why all the inquiries? If there are enquirers and people are sitting on the fence and waiting, waiting for what? Liquidation? If EVERYBODY is sitting on the fence, surely that means people are looking, surely they can't all be interested but just want front row seats for the sinking of the Titanic. If we don't raise 400k by next Saturday, the game won't go ahead. What this omits is, how much have we currently raised and how much further do we have to go? If there is to be a charity match, then it has to be held on Thursday of next week. If the game is needed to help find 400k, how much are they going to charge? When will they announce it? How will they sell enough tickets in one week to make a difference? And if it isn't next week, what's the point, apparently we're liquefied anyway, so no cause to play for? On another note, many on here are talking about L1 and CCC. I have a little problem with this. If enquirers come in and they are waiting for the end of the season to decide, they obviously don't give a monkey's about securing our future, it is clearly just an 'investment' and we've had one of those before with Lowe and Askham et al. The sort of people that are waiting to see which league we are in next season are also the type of people that will be happy for the fans to foot the bill so that they don't have to pick up the true expenses of running a football club ie. the summer period. This type of 'interested party' isn't interested in football, isn't interested in Southampton, they're only interested in themselves. So, 1 of 2 things will happen, no one will actually commit and we go into liquidation; or 2, someone will commit but they won't be in it for the football or the club, just trying to make a few bucks from a poorly run business that has a potential to get a big pay day through promotion. The recession should have passed, buy for peanuts, sell for mega bucks. Change of owners again, new owners have to be far richer than the last lot in order to progress. We are in the sh*t and the vultures are circling. Even if we do survive, it won't be any sort of existence I fear. Lowe mark II step up, your time is here!

It certainly was a weird day. From the highs of leading in the first minute, to the confusion at half time, through to that walk back to the tube and seeing those images. That day will be forever etched in my memory. I was at the Norwich game and it was very subdued. The games between Saints and Norwich often had several goals in them. All round the country, people and games were subdued, it wasn't just at Saints. Whatever the reasons and whoever was to blame, the repercussions were felt throughout football. It was as much historic as it was tragic, a turning point, a watershed. I think we all knew this day would come, we just didn't comprehend the magnitude of it when it did. The fact that only 96 people lost their lives is astounding. How so many escaped without death is pure luck and those people that survived and had their friends and relatives crushed to death right next to them or under their own feet, must really suffer every day. We all used to enjoy the crush, the sway of the crowd, the surges and general cramming in that we experienced. For the young and the old, it was very scarey, for the older ones, it was just a game. Add alcohol to that and the aggro that it sometimes caused, we all knew it would not last. I'm not saying going back to standing is the way to go, I do feel sorry for the kids today that don't experience the rawness of supporting from the terraces, but, at least they are here to watch every game and at least we won;t see the mass death toll that we did on that day again, caused by excited fans trying to watch their team in an important game. We all live and breath our football teams, but supporting a football team should not cause your death, and we should be reminded that this could have happened to ANY team around that time and at many grounds. We all follow Southampton till we die, those 96 followed Liverpool until they died, and if we do not take a minute every so often to think about it, it will happen again, we shouldn't let it, and in that minute, remember that, at the end of the game, you, your friends and your family, all get to go home, on that day, many didn't.

Without drawing away from what is quite an interesting debate, well done guys, wanted to put the Saints back in it so it's not removed. On that fateful day, those of us that travelled to Upton Park were informed of the 'incident' at half time. At that moment, most reports coming out intimated that it was a hooliganism issue and not an accident. WHU v Saints - Rod Wallace scored after 32 seconds in front of the away supporters, running in from the left and slotting it passed their keeper, low into the corner, near post. The Hammers equalised (I think before half time, but it may have been just after). Late into the second half, Paul Rideout leaped highest to direct the ball across the Hammers keeper to nestle in the back of the net. Final score WHU 1 Saints 2! As we were all kept in after the game, the reports that had been picked up during the game were confirmed. It was an accisdent and not hooliganism that appeared to be the cause. As we walked back to the tube station, many of us stopped and watched the TV's in the shop windows of the horrors of that day. Even the police escort was slackened to allow us to take it in. There were no West Ham fans anywhere, I think they were also stuck to the TV's. As we boarded the tubes, we were crushed like sardines in a tin. Crowd issues happen everywhere and at anytime. Alcohol and Crowds are a bad combination IMO, but we insist on enjoying ourselves, even if death is a possibility because of our actions. Accidents are tragic, loss of life, especially of those that were so young. These people should be remembered, because it was the day British football stopped and watched people dieing on TV because they supported their club.