sadoldgit

I am sorry but I didn't realise that it was a close discussion and that we could only discuss Muslims in total isolation. I assume the Muslims who have said there is a problem with integration (is that anything like "blending in?) have integrated or "blended in." Are we okay with those ones then Batman?

That's a shame, I was looking forward to reading it but after the clips published in the Echo and this, I don't think I'll bother.

bees

So then, Trevor Phillips. He says there is a problem with Muslims "blending in." What does that mean exactly? Changing their diets? Changing their religion. Changing their clothes? Passing the Norman Tebbit Britishness test (which my wife would fail by the way as she knows nothing about cricket). I am sure many here have travelled to foreign cities and some may have enjoyed a nice Chinese meal in China Town in San Francisco or New York. Is that blending in by the Chinese? I am sure many spread out elsewhere and did get assimilated into North America but what of those who stayed put and built a Chinese community within the indigenous environment. How dare they? The need to blend in and look and behave like us. Just like the many Brit ex pats in Spain have done over the years...oh wait. I have had a quick look at the poll and also read The Spectator article about it. I am not surprised by the figures and given the fuss Philips was making about the poll I expect them to be a lot worse. The only one that bothered me was the homosexuality response but then some become more enlightened more quickly than others and I would be interested to see the same poll in ten years time as I suspect the 52% would drop. It wasn't that long ago that we were still locking up "queers" and homosexuality was only decriminalised here in 1967 (although not in the Armed Forces). It only changed in Scotland in 1980 and in N Ireland in 1982. The Spectator (a publication that seems to have a problem with all Muslims, not just the extremists) also fell into the same trap as The Sun, by twisting the figures to make them look worse than they are. Instead of saying that 77% (which is a large figure in terms of polls) of British Muslims polled didn't support the idea of there being areas of the UK where sharia law is introduced instead of British law, it spun it so that 23% of Brit Muslims agreed. I was always taught to put the biggest figure first. In four examples from the poll the only larger figure used first is 52% think homosexuality should be illegal in the UK. Following their previous example I wonder why they didn't say that 48% of British Muslims thought that homosexuality should be criminalised? On that note, I also wonder what a poll of non Muslims would show? I doubt very much if you would get 100% agreeing that it shouldn't be a criminal offence. Yes, there are problems in some areas concerning Muslim immigrants and we don't need Batman finding negative stories each day to remind us that things are not great. But we also need to keep some perspective on issues and to pretend that we are all at risk from an evil tide of Islamism is madness. There are plenty of migrants who go and live in other countries who don't "blend in" (there is a Jewish area in North London where the locals look like they have been stuck in a time warp) and why should they? So long as people abide by the laws of the countries they live in why should we expect them to turn into one of us to make them acceptable?

Going off on one? Why do you have to equate someone stating a view that you don't agree with have to be related in emotional terms? Anyway, I know what the thread was about because I started it. It was about a terrorist attack in Paris. No religion was mentioned initially but then it became about "Muslims." We have talked about many things which cast Islam as a whole in a negative light. "Muslim" rape gangs for example. Do we know that all of the accused were practising Muslims at the time of arrest? No matter, it was a "Muslim" rape gang. Holepuncture tells us to take care because Muslims are after us. Sour Mash doesn't think that Muslim immigrants have offered anything positive etc etc. This is not just about Muslim extremism (unfortunately) it is about Islam and "The West." We have ended up talking about Nazis and Christians and Nativity Plays (and somehow even Easter Eggs) because the point has rightly been made that evil is not the sole preserve of Islam. You say that you support moderate Muslims although it took you some time to start challenging the Islamophobes on here (it was even suggested that they didn't exist on here ). As you say, the discussion widened but there are some who still want to polarise issues down to Muslims. You might not agree, but there is a greater problem in this country with rapes by white males who may or may not be Christian. Batman goes out of his way to find a negative story about Muslims and for a period he was doing it every day. You didn't seem to have a problem with that yet you say you support moderate Muslims? Hmmm. Really? If you want to talk about a small percentage of people without a reference point to a wider world how aon earth do you think you are going to get any kind of perspective. Yes, some Muslims are terrorists, yes some Muslims commit sexual assaults, yes some Muslims break the law. It is not more likely to happen just because the person is a Muslim but to read some posts on here you would think that Islam is responsible for all of the evil in the world when if fact, mankind is responsible, no matter what race or creed. So if you support moderate peace abiding citizens why not save your barbed comments for those who have a problem with Islam?

Thank you. I shall watch it.

Please feel free to quote where anyone has said that there isn't a problem. There are many problems in the world but you seem to feel it is necessary to find evidence of problems with Muslims every day. It is nice that you have found something that supports your paranoia. A sample of 1000 out of a figure of over 1 billion people has really nailed it. I for one am going to stock up on tinned goods and put sandbags over the windows.

layla

Sounds interesting, what was it called?

What never fails to amaze me is how opinions on players and how they performed differ so much. Pelle for example gets shedloads of cr@p from some quarters and support from others. I have seen him slagged off even when he has been awarded MotM??

Don't sit on the fence Art. Tell us what you really think!

But where is that going to come from?

Nail on head here Charlie.

Did Trevor have anything to say about Islamophobia of those who spend their days looking for negative Muslim stories on the Internet?

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but poor old Batman isn't even that consistent!

Apparently he is saying that he wont go to another London club out of respect to the @rse. I hope he goes somewhere to get game time rather than being a bench warmer.

Maybe, we shall see I guess but it will be interesting to see if he goes or stays and tries to make Spuds a "big club" again. Frankly I really don't care if he does well or not.

Me too. But what a car crash. I'd forgotten just how cr@p those days were. And to think we have had people telling us how badly the club was being run during the last two summers!

Why is it annoying? And he still hasn't won anything yet. Perhaps save your feelings for when he does?

Yet apparently we were told that we should be looking to emulate Stoke (and Everton and Crystal Palace).

Probably best mate, although I agree that fart gags are always welcome too!

What an earth has the comment regarding the obvious statement that rape isn't the preserve of Muslim men got to do with people not being charged, convicted and sentenced earlier??? I don't think you will find anyone on here who condones rape, no matter who commits it.

You really do not get it do you?

Do you honestly believe that RK would play certain players out of favouritism? He was a quality player and he knows better than any of us that you don't win by playing favourites. You might not agree with some of his selections but then when does anyone agree with a manager all of the time? (Especially on here )

crack