OldNick

Im glad you have pulled back in your tone and appreciate that. The word fact is not a figure of speech but a way of reinforcing an arguement as there is no other arguement. There is nothing wrong with having high expectations but with those you have to factor all things in, and until fans do they will forever be disappointed.Yes 7m is a lot of money to invest but you also have to take into account the level of fan expectation, the boardroom squabbles and players leaving or not gelling as quickly as we would have expected. I can hold my hand up and say I was reserved about the furore about us signing Rudi as I had never seen him play and it was on the back of a good season at Hearts. The fans were baying to sign him , and he has been a terible disappointment.Rasiak was a goalscorer but he took away from other areas of the team and the day he fought with Surman to take the penalty he lost a lot of fans respect. Saga was another who we set high standards of but as soon as he got his contract he never seemed the same again. I was meaning Bale when I said about the young player sorry if I confused things by not naming him but took it people would have relised who it was i was alluding to. Now of course it could be now said that they were Gb's fault for signing them but at first 2 of the 3 looked fair signings. I think Gb did a fair job and under the circumstances he did well but he will not go down as one of my favourite managers, but they are few and far between in the all the years I have watched Saints. I have defended him as he has been unjustly treated by fans who have slurred (bad choice of words) him and made accusations thatr have never come into the open press which is amazing if true.

Not the Nick Nack this time odd isnt it. You are an interloper on a Saints forum, you know the rules and the moderators for some reason are ignoring the fact. trying to inflame Daren with your post was out of order and again if you ever met him you'd cr## yourself. You are a Pompey fan and have your own site.Your main reasomn to come on here is to try and inflame the sentiments. As for having a chip I think not Im not the saddo who feels he has to go on in anominity onto a rival fans site giving it the big one.

Mugabe would be better cold.

You may go and tak about anything on the other boards as that is allowed in the argeement to let Skates on this site.You are infringing those rules by coming on the main board, and I am very surprised that the moderators are turning a blind eye to this, and it makes it worse that I as a paid up member has to put up with a rival fan who is only registered coming on abusing other respected Saints fans. Why this is happening is somewhat a surprise. As for your views on this I'm not interested as you would want to suck up to HR.

Is that fact or opinion Andy ?

Yes Im sure, all those die hard Pompey fans would come on a Saints site wouldnt they from all those years ago. You can tell us you went to the 1939 cup final as we are on the internet and so you can make it all up. You are so easy to assess, a plastic fan, who only lives to crow about the good times and then disappears in the bad times. Just go and talk to some friends on POL ,,,,,oh of course not they think you are a prat as well.

Thanks for me being high on your approval rating. Now it is unlikely that we will see eye to eye, it is not a fact but a probability. I agree it is a probability that Scotland will not qualify, but not a fact until they fail. Do I think he spent wisely? Well as so many of the rabid anti GB's go on about him not playing Rasiak and Saga i cant see where you are coming from.If you keep quoting how we didnt play them you obviously rate those 2 signings. I also rated his signings of Kelvin, Andrew Davies thought that Euell was ok. His loan signings were ok Potter guthrie and the full back from Spurs. I thought the winger from Liverpool was poor. Makin was only a stop gap and Jwright was a good professional. I cant recall many and cant be bothered to look all the names up. He did play baird and turn him into a £3m fee , KJ who many thought was rubbish (not me) into a 6m fee and of course he took a 16-17 year old kid and put him into the first team who also earned us a 6m fee (no body on here had been gushing and told us that he was any good before he was picked) oh Rudi was a poor signing, although the fans were begging him /club to get him to join. All in all it was not a glorious reign but it was not as bad as the very rabid anti Gb's think.

The facts are that we dont know if boyd would have scored. He may not have been in the position and so it is irrelevant. The facts is that Gb did not pick the player, that the player went off in a strop and instead of knuckling down he has made himself unavailable to play for his national side. Without a doubt anyone would have put that ball away, even Neil McCann, but Iwelumo will not be the last to miss an absolute sitter. You are a comedian, Scotland are unlikely to qualify FACT. Where is the fact in that statement, it is opinion only, it will be a fact when they are mathmatically out of it. You think Gb picks teams that are underperforming, it doesnt count in the real world as again it is opinion only.So dont tell me they are facts but opinions, by someone who does not wish to have a balanced view but only wants him to fail and so it all adds up in your stupid mind. Roll out some accurate facts and then perhaps you will get agreement but do not confuse your opinion to that being fact.

and the facts are what in this case? You have a player who thinks he should be in the side and the manager believes that a player in form deserves his chance. I dont follow Scottish football but a Scottish commentator said that that both Walter Smith and Gb thought he doesnt offer much to team play. His goalscoring record does seem good if Marcos figures are correct, but as in all things football we all rate players differntly. You must add attitude to a players worht, and we dont know how he mixes with the rest of the squad. Whatever it doesnt help Gb and he will be under more pressure due to this episode.

So because a player has a petulant hissy fit and walks out he is in the right. Answer this, had Iwelumo scored, would Boyd have had his fit of peak and so would any of this conversation gone ahead?

mpre pertently, why would anyone want to buy saints shares in this time where having cash is king.It hardly is like buying gold....unless

and you think he would come on here if they were struggling!!! He's a plastic fan who will walk away and disappear as soon as things get rocky.

LOL at BIG DAZZA, I think that is enough. You are a Skate on the main board. The rules allowing your kind on is that you stay on the Lounge and not to come on here giving it the big one. Again you would absolutely c### yourself if you ever met up with him and so if i were you Id tone it down because you never know what fate does. I still think the Moderators should shift you, but it is their site and they decide. As for a 100k gentlemans club or a £5 forum you cant afford either so get back to Pol

Oh so the only opinion to have was if you had an issue with Gb and not to try and debate whether the reasons to do so were wrong. Its really pathetic.

Do you know what opinions are about?

I think i recall that Gb was asked why he put on Iwelumo instead of Boyd. Gb replied on the lines that he was not in the first team and so put in a striker who was on form. If Iwelumo had scored the question would not have been asked, and it was a fair reply , he was being honest.

If you ever met BigDazza you would sh## yourself. This is the main board and so cretins like yourself should follow the rules. The mods should be keeping to the rules set down and Skates kept away from the main board, especially when they are out to wind up . This is a paid site and so registered users like Ho should be banned for breaking the rules. If he wants to pollute the lounge thats fine but the main board is a no go area.

I dont follw Scottish football and have heard of Kris Boyd but only a little. Is Walter Smith getting the same stick for not playing this prolific striker? Some players upset the dressing room with thier attitude and perahaps we are seeing more about the man. If it was not your pet hate you may be a little more understanding.The Scots were very unimpressed with his appointment and so they have only given him a little of slack before putting him under pressure. To me it is not about Gb but whether it is acceptable for a player to threaten to destabilise a teams focus before an important game.What gives him the right to call the shots? As for Saga you think highly of him i dont.I questioned hois ability even before he signed his contract as he was not a brilliant finisher and we went overboard. That is my opinion of him and when he came up for loan there were not a queue of clubs wishing ofr his services and so that tells us a lot. I myself beleive in team spirit and without it you are lost, Boyd if he played for England and came out and said the same I would not want him to represent my country again.

Well how big in life have you made it in comparison? i know its a lot further than me. To me being an Interantional football manager is big, a lot bigger than managing a CCC club, a lot bigger than managing a lot of Pl clubs as well. Only time will tell if he is up to it, but you are so desperate that he fails so in some way can try and prove in your mind that he was wrong here is pathetic. He did ok considering all that he had going on behind the scenes, and as it has now been stated he alos left with a great compensation package that the club used to help pay off debt or even the loan signings that helped us stay up after our spiral downhill after he left.

I was listening to a Scottish radio commentator last night and he was saying in the game against Iceland Gb brought on an uncapped player who scored the winner, he also g=brought on Iwelumo who with his first touch should have won the game. He said that had he scored they would have said Gb has a Midas touch, and none of the media stuff would be written. The fact is Iwelumo missed a chance that even Frannie would have put away and Gb is taking the flak. If Boyd is so up himself he does not deserve to play international football. How would we feel if Kenwynne came back to play for us now? Would the fans accept him after his I wont play antics? Im sure some would, and i am a great fan of his but not the way he conducted himself and the same goes for Boyd he is not a superstar and so should be a team player and wait his turn. As for playing players out of position, you dont have to look far in all the top teams for that.

Longshot thankyou for your reply but as I put you as part of the gang of 3 I feel a little less likely to take it. Ump is quite entitled to put up his smileys and rolley eyes, to me it is childish but if he wishes to do so fine. I can imagine at meetings with his bosses him pulling faces to his workmates to try and show how anarchic he is. It holds no water with me. I do accept he does put good points across and does look up the figures but as you know figures are only part of any arguement. It would be better if all these had more clarity (not Umps, because Im not saying he distorts them) but say up to when RL left, and again some of the cost savings take time to feed into the system something that I put across badly or Ump didnt want to see. My gripe with the Wilde bunch is that we knew that the parachute payments were ending and so should have planned for their loss, it is no good harping on about losing the £m's if we had been in the Pl as we knew that had happened and so needed to act. the firsat season was going to be a quandary as it was stupid to completely dismantle the PL structure as we may have bounced back, but 2nd and 3rd was the only opportunity to restructure without getting into a mess. Now some sya we had to go for it, thats fine but perhaps it would have bene better to have gone for it without taking big long term contracts.Then compounding things with other high contracts after the para payments were gone.

Ump, you have no confidence in my grasp of things, that is fine, I immediately have no faith in any of your judgement because you were on S4E really biigiing up the Wilde bunch and argueing against caution.Therefore your credibility in my eyes has been dampened wheras Jonah talked a lot of sense and seemed to have a far better grasp of the matter.Sadly he doesnt post on here anymore and then we would have a better balanced debate as he was better placed to show any inaccurcies. It is only a drop in the sea but if you also notice with the accounts that the salaries without players wages went up over 10k a week not down.That is hardly cutting costs. There was a 10m drop in the wage bill between 05 -06 and it is hard with figures that contain half of one season and the first half of another to exactly see where the wage bill was slashed. The people who were employed to run the club may well have had a closed shop, but when you have a major shreholder not happy invaribly he can get allies to get them removed. As I have stated before I dont beleive LC is the major reason it all went #its up but he was part of the cause and should hae acted. If people like myself could see we were heading for the iceberg then why did the custodians.

I wonder if Capello has had the same message from Michael Owen? This Boyd does he score shedloads of goals in Scotland, Iwelumo is a good forward , not top international class but should have justified GB faith by putting in the goal that could have been the winner. I dont understand the players decision and he is not the type of person you need in a squad.

Exit I generalise as IMO it was during the tenure of the whole Wilde bunch that the action for longterm financial security was not made no 1 in priority. LC without a doubt is a fantastic Saints fan and I have been told of him underwrting transfers etc I he may have a few loan notes on the club. I doubt he would let his business be run like he and the rest oversaw the football club. I am not singling him out any more than MW or the others who thought they would ride into the club and become heroes. They made a misjudgement and we are all paying for it , fans like myself who warned against it and the gushing fans like Umpahars who were sucked in by the promises and agrued that we should run into their arms. So no doubt I will get loads of rolley eyed things and told how stupid I am, but history tells us I was correct, they were wrong for the club. It is no different than what has happened in the global markets, others have made the bad calls and I and all the other decent people are left to pick up the bill.

you keep to your juvenile smileys to try and add some kind of moral support to your points. You believe that you are the Finnacial god on here when patently you are not. You may try and play the 'i know how to read the financial reports 'etc but you still do not answer the questions but skip over them with your attempts to discredit. The fact is RL took on Gb who culled the squad.Losing over 20 players on the wage bill doesnt happen immediately and some is held over to later accounts. You obviously have ties of loyalty over LC and thats fine and so defend his actions to the hilt. If a serious fraud had happened the board would be looked at as well as the people employed to do the work, and so the same goes for financial mismanagement. The whole of the Wilde bunch oversaw this during their tenure and LC was in charge in the last 6 months.In that time many high salaried loans were brought in, that also incurred expensive loan fees, hotel and relocation costs. He may have bene forced to do so due to our league standing but it was still at a high financial cost. I await the usual smileys and arrogant replies of 'but it was 5months 3 days not 6 months' etc. Do you agree that if a company loses a large part of its financial stream it should look to slash costs and make sure it is financially secure before taking on higher debt or costs?