Holland launches road-charging...

[.comsaint]

from 2012. GPS tracking systems will be fitted to all of the country's vehicles, with drivers being charged for each kilometre they travel.

 

I have no doubt that the UK government will be keeping a close eye on developments - and if it works out well (or in government-speak - it earns them a fortune in extra taxes!) - we will be following suit some time later. After all - it's been on the agenda here for a few years now.

 

Holland's car purchase tax – which adds up to 25 per cent to the price of a car – will be abolished, as will annual road tax charges.

 

To me - it's the beginning of the end.

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/244938/

[Scummer]

I actually think it makes sense as a policy. Insurance should probably be charged by the mile as well, which would be possible if every car has a tracker.

[.comsaint]

I actually think it makes sense as a policy. Insurance should probably be charged by the mile as well, which would be possible if every car has a tracker.

 

The worry for me is that the UK will f@*k it up like they do most things...except their own expenses of course. It's the 'Big Brother' factor that concerns me - which won't be made public of course until the tabloids find out. Then it'll be "It's for your own anti-terrorist protection we keep all the data" as to exactly where your car was and at what time.

[bungle]

It's about striking a balance. Those who drive more should pay more, but those who live out in the countryside etc who don't have access to public transport shouldn't be penalised. Therefore, road charging on motorways and major A-roads is absolutely fine with me.

 

Vehicle Excise Duty and Road Tax should be abolished, but fuel duty should rise, so that those who drive more pay more.

 

Of course, this all has to be done with real investment in public transport, which is the bit that I can't see happening if Labour or the Tories are in power.

[RedAndWhite91]

It worries me that this is the next step in surveillance, and now people won't be able to go anywhere without the Government knowing where they are going and what they are doing.

 

It won't be long before the EU forces us to have this as well.

 

All this surveillance reminds me of Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany, except our government can get away with it because it is "counter-terrorism".

 

Call me paranoid or a Euro-sceptic, I don't care, this genuinely worries me.

[hypochondriac]

It reminds me of 1984 most. Seriously spooky when I reread that recently and saw the parallels with society today.

[Scummer]

It worries me that this is the next step in surveillance, and now people won't be able to go anywhere without the Government knowing where they are going and what they are doing.

 

It won't be long before the EU forces us to have this as well.

 

All this surveillance reminds me of Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany, except our government can get away with it because it is "counter-terrorism".

 

Call me paranoid or a Euro-sceptic, I don't care, this genuinely worries me.

 

I'm intrigued, where do you go that you want to keep secret? Haven't been popping down to Fratton Park have you?

[RedAndWhite91]

I'm intrigued, where do you go that you want to keep secret? Haven't been popping down to Fratton Park have you?

 

Haha, no, never been to Fratton Park! It's not me, I don't have a full driving license yet, it's just in general, I think people should be allowed a degree of privacy.

[bungle]

It worries me that this is the next step in surveillance, and now people won't be able to go anywhere without the Government knowing where they are going and what they are doing.

 

It won't be long before the EU forces us to have this as well.

 

All this surveillance reminds me of Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany, except our government can get away with it because it is "counter-terrorism".

 

Call me paranoid or a Euro-sceptic, I don't care, this genuinely worries me.

 

You are a paranoid Euro-sceptic. B*gger all to do with the EU, and we are by far the worst nation in the world (largest DNA database, 20% of world's CCTV cameras for 1% of population) for being snooped on, and it is down to OUR government not the EU. Stop kidding yourself.

[RedAndWhite91]

You are a paranoid Euro-sceptic. B*gger all to do with the EU, and we are by far the worst nation in the world (largest DNA database, 20% of world's CCTV cameras for 1% of population) for being snooped on, and it is down to OUR government not the EU. Stop kidding yourself.

 

I know it is mainly down to our Government, re-read my original post where I have mentioned our Government twice and the EU once (not including 'Euro-sceptic', before any one gets clever)... You can't deny that our Government works closely with the European Union though can you. That's a fact.

 

I said "It worries me that this is the next step in surveillance, and now people won't be able to go anywhere without the Government knowing where they are going and what they are doing" and your statistics back that up perfectly.

 

I'm kidding no-one.

[Al de Man]

I think it's a good idea tbh. It will encourage people to not bother making unnecessary journeys, reducing congestion and pollution, and in a way we're already paying tax on how far we drive given that something stupid like four fifths of fuel costs goes straight to the Revenue.

 

People already pay less on some insurance policies for keeping their mileage below predetermined annual limits.

 

On the Tracker front, I had a Vehicle Asset Management unit fitted about a year ago to my company car and I was somewhat peeved as I took it as implying mistrust and snooping on my whereabouts, but to be honest, I don't take the p*ss so it's really not an issue. In fact, it's proved to be an invaluable tool as it allows me to accurately fill in timesheets weeks after the event and looks like it may provide the evidence to save my company going to court.

 

The only issue as I see it is that it's a piece of p*ss to jam the GPS signal that the Tracker VAM relies upon with a £20 unit bought from eBay. VAM is different from the Stolen Vehicle Recovery which the police monitor as that works on VHF radio transmissions.

[Arizona]

I'm really not that bothered about the government knowing where I am. As long as the data is kept secret and not released to the public. I don't really buy this whole, 'big brother is watching you' surveilance idea. It's hardly as if there are two men in the tree outside my house taking photo's through the living room window. So the government will know I went to the Saints match, had Sunday lunch with my Granny and go to work at 5am. Whoop-de-f**king-doo. It's not as if anybody will "know" this either. They will just have a record of it in some MASSIVE database somewhere.

 

As for the fuel duty... I do a reasonable amount of driving, so it's probably bad for me personally, but I do think it's a pretty fair system. The main problem I can see if fraud. How can you prevent people for removing these GP units or running cars without them. I've got a sat nav which loses it's signal if you put it in the glove compartment. I can't imagine blocking or jamming these trackers will prove all that difficult.

[Scummer]

How can you prevent people for removing these GP units or running cars without them. I've got a sat nav which loses it's signal if you put it in the glove compartment. I can't imagine blocking or jamming these trackers will prove all that difficult.

 

I wonder if you could have something like a speed camera, which senses the tracker as you go past and if you don't have one takes a picture and you get a fine.

[bungle]

I know it is mainly down to our Government, re-read my original post where I have mentioned our Government twice and the EU once (not including 'Euro-sceptic', before any one gets clever)... You can't deny that our Government works closely with the European Union though can you. That's a fact.

 

I said "It worries me that this is the next step in surveillance, and now people won't be able to go anywhere without the Government knowing where they are going and what they are doing" and your statistics back that up perfectly.

 

I'm kidding no-one.

 

The crux of your comment was that the EU would force us to do this in the future. You just wanted to blame the EU. Get over it.

[bungle]

By the way, I am totally and utterly against having trackers fitted in cars, although I am for road pricing on major roads.

 

It is disgusting how much we are already spied on by our government, who invade our privacy at every turn. It is quite appalling what goes on, but perhaps more worrying is that some (thankfully not many), don't seem to care. As if the government spying on them is a good thing.

 

Chips in cars would be just another step in the government's desire to watch you all day every day. Britain has a proud tradition of standing up for civil liberties, and being a liberal (small l) nation. Sadly, this is disappearing rather quickly.

[RedAndWhite91]

The crux of your comment was that the EU would force us to do this in the future. You just wanted to blame the EU. Get over it.

 

Do you know for a fact they won't? I doubt you do, and so I'm going to go with an 'each to their own' argument here. "You just wanted to blame the EU". Again, re-read it, I'm not blaming anybody. I have just said I think it won't be long before we operate the same sort of policy. It's my opinion. I also think you shouldn't end arguments with "Stop kidding yourself" and "Get over it", after all, we are all entitled to our own opinions, aren't we??

[swannymere]

As if anyone posting on here does anything interesting enough to be spied on, get over yourselves:p

[Hatch]

I need to find out whether or not I will be better off personaly under this 'policy' before i state whether I am in favour or not

[St Landrew]

from 2012. GPS tracking systems will be fitted to all of the country's vehicles, with drivers being charged for each kilometre they travel.

 

I have no doubt that the UK government will be keeping a close eye on developments - and if it works out well (or in government-speak - it earns them a fortune in extra taxes!) - we will be following suit some time later. After all - it's been on the agenda here for a few years now.

 

Holland's car purchase tax – which adds up to 25 per cent to the price of a car – will be abolished, as will annual road tax charges.

 

To me - it's the beginning of the end.

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/244938/

 

I sort of share your concern, mate. What, no doubt you are primarily worried about is that GB will adopt a Holland-like system of taxation, but keep all the VAT and Road Tax, and at current levels. That would be typical of this country.

[saint-luco]

I need to find out whether or not I will be better off personaly under this 'policy' before i state whether I am in favour or not

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

have we ever been better off when the government bring in new charges?

looks like another money making tax to me

[Saint in Paradise]

I'm really not that bothered about the government knowing where I am. As long as the data is kept secret

and not released to the public. ". They will just have a record of it in some MASSIVE database somewhere.

 

I have to say that I admire your confidence I am sorry to say but I trust NO Govt to manage to keep

their data base stuff secret from someone who really wants access. Govt. employees keep losing laptops

or CD's via the Postal system, did they ever find those they lost a few months ago ?

 

I mean look at how even a mobile phone company managed to keep their secrets

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8364421.stm

[Ponty]

That's the end of a cheeky 65 on a country B road or a sensible 85 on the motorway then. GPS isn't just about location, it will always be able to determine your speed. If they bring this in then they might as well just issue everyone with a Johnny-Cab.

 

Also, I don't want to be punished for living miles from a town or sensible rail/bus links.

[bungle]

Do you know for a fact they won't? I doubt you do, and so I'm going to go with an 'each to their own' argument here. "You just wanted to blame the EU". Again, re-read it, I'm not blaming anybody. I have just said I think it won't be long before we operate the same sort of policy. It's my opinion. I also think you shouldn't end arguments with "Stop kidding yourself" and "Get over it", after all, we are all entitled to our own opinions, aren't we??

 

You should sort your life out. The EU doesn't have tax raising powers, it couldn't "force" anyone to do this, and it certainly won't be. It is just your rabid Euro-scepticism and scaremongering that makes you think like this.

[Baj]

It reminds me of 1984 most. Seriously spooky when I reread that recently and saw the parallels with society today.

Dont remember any cars in 1984 Trains yes...

[Arizona]

I have to say that I admire your confidence I am sorry to say but I trust NO Govt to manage to keep

their data base stuff secret from someone who really wants access. Govt. employees keep losing laptops

or CD's via the Postal system, did they ever find those they lost a few months ago ?

 

I mean look at how even a mobile phone company managed to keep their secrets

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8364421.stm

 

Obviously whoever is in charge, should this system be implemented, would need a better track record than the current bunch.

 

It depends how the data is scored. If it's on some massive hard drive at a secure facility then fair enough. If ejits are wandering around with the data on laptops and leaving them on trains and in hotel lobbies then no.

[RedAndWhite91]

You should sort your life out. The EU doesn't have tax raising powers, it couldn't "force" anyone to do this, and it certainly won't be. It is just your rabid Euro-scepticism and scaremongering that makes you think like this.

 

Ok I'll take your word for it, but I will re-iterate that we are all allowed our own opinions. This is a forum. Just because my opinion perhaps differs from yours, doesn't mean I need to 'sort my life out'. My life is quite cushy thanks, why would I change it.

 

As for scaremongering, what? Surely your earlier post (see below) is scaremongering, much more so than anything I've written.

 

It is disgusting how much we are already spied on by our government, who invade our privacy at every turn. It is quite appalling what goes on, but perhaps more worrying is that some (thankfully not many), don't seem to care. As if the government spying on them is a good thing.

 

Chips in cars would be just another step in the government's desire to watch you all day every day. Britain has a proud tradition of standing up for civil liberties, and being a liberal (small l) nation. Sadly, this is disappearing rather quickly.

[bungle]

Ok I'll take your word for it, but I will re-iterate that we are all allowed our own opinions. This is a forum. Just because my opinion perhaps differs from yours, doesn't mean I need to 'sort my life out'. My life is quite cushy thanks, why would I change it.

 

As for scaremongering, what? Surely your earlier post (see below) is scaremongering, much more so than anything I've written.

 

Er, no, because what I have written is fact. There are facts that show how much the government is spying on us. I haven't even got onto the examples of mis-use of RIPA powers.

 

It is a fact that we have a huge DNA database (including innocent people and children) and a fact we have 1% of the world's population and 20% of the world's cctv cameras. It is a fact that we already hold people for 28 days without charge, and that our government wanted to extend that to 90 days. It is quite clear from these facts that our civil liberties are being eroded.

 

You could legitimately have the opinion that you aren't concerned by this, but you cannot deny it is happening, because it is.

 

When you say the EU will make us do something, when it isn't even physically capably of doing it, then you aren't even expressing an opinion, you are just plain wrong.

Edited 18 November, 2009 by bungle

[RedAndWhite91]

Er, no, because what I have written is fact. There are facts that show how much the government is spying on us. I haven't even got onto the examples of mis-use of RIPA powers.

 

It is a fact that we have a huge DNA database (including innocent people and children) and a fact we have 1% of the world's population and 20% of the world's cctv cameras. It is quite clear from these facts that our civil liberties are being eroded.

 

You could legitimately have the opinion that you aren't concerned by this, but you cannot deny it is happening, because it is.

 

When you say the EU will make us do something, when it isn't even physically capably of doing it, then you aren't even expressing an opinion, you are just plain wrong.

 

Oh, don't get me wrong I am concerned by it, it's a very worrying situation when the Government is spying on us, it's almost totalitarianism, and your facts do make a very good point.

 

It's still an opinion I hold, sure, they can't physically make us do it but they can pressure us.

[Arizona]

Er, no, because what I have written is fact. There are facts that show how much the government is spying on us. I haven't even got onto the examples of mis-use of RIPA powers.

 

It is a fact that we have a huge DNA database (including innocent people and children) and a fact we have 1% of the world's population and 20% of the world's cctv cameras. It is a fact that we already hold people for 28 days without charge, and that our government wanted to extend that to 90 days. It is quite clear from these facts that our civil liberties are being eroded.

 

You could legitimately have the opinion that you aren't concerned by this, but you cannot deny it is happening, because it is.

 

When you say the EU will make us do something, when it isn't even physically capably of doing it, then you aren't even expressing an opinion, you are just plain wrong.

 

How does any of that affect your civil liberties?

 

CCTV is employed to make public places safer. I'm not sure quite how important you think you are, but I'm afraid to say I doubt someone is tracking your movement's on CCTV. I doubt anyone even looks at 99% of CCTV footage, unless it is needed as evidence in a criminal investigation.

 

As for the DNA... so it's on a database, who gives a sh*t. If you've ever bought anything over the internet, your name, email, where you live and what you bought has probably been passed on to hundreds of third parties for market research. I don't see people up in arms about that.

[Al de Man]

Dont remember any cars in 1984 Trains yes...

 

There were definitely cars in 1984. My brother bought an Astra GTE.

[ringwood]

well they are already tracking wheelie bins so why not cars?

[toofarnorth]

I dont disagree with it on the whole but the costs must be kept affordable. When Labour first announced its report into the viability of it using the figures they released it would have cost me almost £100 to drive the 450 miles down to Southampton. Then if you add the petrol on top of that I just wouldn't be able to afford it. Plus it would be much cheaper to fly forcing more people on to domestic flights.

 

Plus who pays for all the GPS units to be fitted into cars? Needs very careful consideration and a huge amount of public consultation. Also as someone earlier said i'm not convinced our government can get this right. Are we just to trust the invoice we get through the post or is their any way of monitoring exactly how far you have travelled without having to keep a manual note.

[JackFrost]

from 2012. GPS tracking systems will be fitted to all of the country's vehicles, with drivers being charged for each kilometre they travel.

 

I have no doubt that the UK government will be keeping a close eye on developments - and if it works out well (or in government-speak - it earns them a fortune in extra taxes!) - we will be following suit some time later. After all - it's been on the agenda here for a few years now.

 

Holland's car purchase tax – which adds up to 25 per cent to the price of a car – will be abolished, as will annual road tax charges.

 

To me - it's the beginning of the end.

 

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/244938/

 

I'm not optimistic about this happening here. if this got enforced the price of a new car would go down 5% and we slowly put up and the road tax would go down and then be hiked up slowly again to match what it was. It'll just turn into another stealth tax.

Edited 5 January, 2010 by JackFrost