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Pancake
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Pancake - Part P of the building regulations probably makes it a notifiable job.

 

http://www.theiet.org/publishing/wiring-regulations/part-p/

 

Basically almost any work in a kitchen needs to be carried out by a qualified spark and pre notified - (money for nothing imho).

 

A qualified spark will be able to clarify, but i think you may not be able to do it yourself.

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You can install whatever you want in your own house, even fuseboards. So installing a hob would be fine. I know what I'm talking about.

 

Absolutely true about installing whatever you want in your own house, even fuseboards. Respectfully, I can't vouch that you know what you are talking bout.

 

Everything will be fine until you come to sell or there is an accident directly attributable to a faulty installation.

 

But you'll have a signed Test Certificate indicating that minor works had been performed and tested, pursuant to B.S. 7671 (I.E.E. Regs) * by a fully qualified electrician.

 

Won't you?

 

* The I.E.E. Regs are not law as they are not enshrined in Statute. However, the H & S E when prosecuting will refer to the aforesaid regs and if it is proven that the work has not complied with those same regs then the perpetrator will, most probably, be found culpable in law.

 

Would all this be worth the loss of life, or property which will be deemed a risk not covered by insurance in this particular scenario?

 

By the way, I don't do home jobs as I have not passed C&G 2391 etc because I am an industrial electrician.

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The only correct bit of information on this thread is that you should use a qualified spark, the rest of the information is wrong. It's not notifiable and it doesn't need to be certificated. In theory you could do it yourself.

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Absolutely true about installing whatever you want in your own house, even fuseboards. Respectfully, I can't vouch that you know what you are talking bout.

 

Everything will be fine until you come to sell or there is an accident directly attributable to a faulty installation.

 

But you'll have a signed Test Certificate indicating that minor works had been performed and tested, pursuant to B.S. 7671 (I.E.E. Regs) * by a fully qualified electrician.

 

Won't you?

 

* The I.E.E. Regs are not law as they are not enshrined in Statute. However, the H & S E when prosecuting will refer to the aforesaid regs and if it is proven that the work has not complied with those same regs then the perpetrator will, most probably, be found culpable in law.

 

Would all this be worth the loss of life, or property which will be deemed a risk not covered by insurance in this particular scenario?

 

 

 

By the way, I don't do home jobs as I have not passed C&G 2391 etc because I am an industrial electrician.

 

 

I know I spout some bo11ocks, but that is the biggest load of bullsh;t I have ever read.

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Say I never fit a new socket, or whatever, in my house but there's a fire. How would one go about proving that any of the fixtures were already in place before the house was purchased? I couldn't. To my mind, that makes the whole system unworkable.

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The only correct bit of information on this thread is that you should use a qualified spark, the rest of the information is wrong. It's not notifiable and it doesn't need to be certificated. In theory you could do it yourself.

 

Two examples of notifying laid out below.

 

I know I spout some bo11ocks, but that is the biggest load of bullsh;t I have ever read.

 

 

Of course you can do it yourself, any of it.

 

Read the below, it doesn't mean you cannot do it. Just that you may fall foul of the law as I explained, quite clearly with no bull****.

 

Are you a domestic electrician? If so then you should know what I was explaining. Even I, as an industrial electrician (with BS 7671 accreditation) know what should be done and what actually happens. You seem to delight in indulging in semantics.

 

However:

 

http://www.channel4.com/4homes/diy-self-build/diy-build-advice/major-projects/electric-rewiring-know-how-does-your-house-need-rewiring-10-02-03_p_2.html

 

Upon completion of any electrical work the electrician will give you an appropriate certificate, for a rewire, fuse box change or any new installation works it will be an Electrical Installation Certificate.

 

For any addition or alteration to an existing circuit it will be a Minor Works Certificate.

 

Furthermore:

 

http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=180

 

A qualified "Part P registered" sparky only has to register the work he has done with his Part P registration body (NICEIC Elecsa, Napit et al) and these bodies will directly inform the local Authority Building Control that it has been done. Same as a CORGI gas job, this is end of story - usually automatically approved.

Notifiable works being done by a qualified "non Part P registered" sparky or a DIY'er are subject to application to Building Control before starting the work (unless it is part of a larger job like an extension in which case it is included in the main application). The fee payable will depend on the value of works including the electrical work and no extra charge can be levied over and above the standard application fee to cover the cost of inspection and testing by building control .

Building control should be informed at the stage of completed 1st fix that they can come out to inspect, which they can do themselves, or they can pay a Part P registered electician to do for them or they can choose not to inspect at all - as they see fit. When the work is complete, if a qualified electrician did the work he should complete and supply to the customer a BS7671 Certificate for the work he has done, which the BCO will want to see. He, or any DIY installer should inform building control when the work is complete who in turn may choose to inspect and test before issuing their completion certificate. They will take any BS7671 cert issued against the job into consideration and can approve with or without further testing. They can either not test at all, test the work themselves, or instruct a Part P registered electrician of their choosing to do it for them. If the latter is done then this must be carried out by the same sparky who inspected the first fix).

 

 

These certificates confirm that the work has been carried out, inspected and tested in accordance with BS 7671, the national safety standard for electrical installations.

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I'm assuming that by 'replacing' you are saying that there is already an electric hob in situ? Surely if he isolates the consumer unit it's as simple as re-wiring a plug?

 

I do not know what I am talking about but am thinking out loud. It's quite probable that that is how I would do it.

 

Feel free to ignore this advice.

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Nice, ESB, but that doesn't really address my point.

 

I don't think I attempted to address your point as I was addressing two others while you posted.

 

However, The IEE Regs are not retrospective as it would be a logistical nightmare to upgrade all installations covered by them at each and every upgrade of those Regs.

 

Also the HIP that comes with moving into a new home should cover any recent installations in that new home and would therefore be your point of reference. To clarify, I believe that the HIP would hold a copy of any relevant electrical certificates applying to your new home. Unless, as you point out, there have been no recent changes made to the electrical installation.

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An electric hob is an appliance, connecting an appliance is not notifiable and does not require a certificate. Part P is a crock of ****, it does not stop diy sparks from carrying out work all it does is make it difficult for qualified sparks to do private work. Part P. is policed by local councils building control, if you have a chat with any one from building control you'll soon realise they know less than your average diy spark.

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I'm assuming that by 'replacing' you are saying that there is already an electric hob in situ? Surely if he isolates the consumer unit it's as simple as re-wiring a plug?

 

I do not know what I am talking about but am thinking out loud. It's quite probable that that is how I would do it.

 

Feel free to ignore this advice.

 

It's how 99% of us would do it, to be honest.

 

But then comes the what if. What if a connection is left loose? It may well work for a long time, slowly arcing away and each time altering the molecular balance in the conductor. That will cause a higher resistance which itself brings more heat and ends, hopefully, with the correctly selected C/B tripping. Then you go to try and find the fault.

 

What if it catches fire? Or a wrongly selected C/B is fitted and doesn't trip? What if the loose connection is the live and actually touches the cooker (hob) body which itself may not be earthed because the earth wire was also loose and has come adrift? Then your wife or child touches that cooker (hob) while trying to use it?

 

Which is why the installation should be tested.

 

True story.

 

I ran a feed, correctly to my shed. I connected into my downstairs ring main and had my mate come round and test before issuing me with the relevant paperwork.

 

A few months later I started getting spurious trips on that ring main when switching anything on on that circuit. My mate came to check. He discovered that the original wiring to the socket, which I had connected to, had a tight radius bend on a neutral cable. So tight in fact that the insulation had stretched at the bend abd was allowing a transient earth leakage through the insulation.

 

I'm not the world's best sparky, I'd never claim that. However I class myself as competent yet I never found that fault before it developed!

Edited by EastleighSoulBoy
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Kitchens, gardens, bathrooms. Too many people have been killed by faulty installations. The IEE (now IET) is my professional institution, I'm a Chartered Engineer, but even I would get it professionally installed and checked. It's not worth the risk. This is your life, and your family's.

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FFS, it's three ****ing wires, make sure you use 10.0mm 3core Ho7-RNF cable which will be suitable for even the large modern hobs. In fact PM me your address and what length you need and I'll send you some. Just make sure the connections are tight in the connector. What Kw rating is it? You may get away with a 6.00mm cable.

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FFS, it's three ****ing wires, make sure you use 10.0mm 3core Ho7-RNF cable which will be suitable for even the large modern hobs. In fact PM me your address and what length you need and I'll send you some. Just make sure the connections are tight in the connector. What Kw rating is it? You may get away with a 6.00mm cable.

 

And to be fair, having met an awful lot of sparkies in my line of work, I would wager that Pancake is a) more intelligent than nearly all of them and b) far more likely to pay attention to the connection of the wires, given that this is his first time doing it, rather than a non interested sparky charging over the odds.

 

Connecting a new hob is not rocket science!

 

When I did mine, the biggest inconvenience was opening the packaging to find the cable wasn't supplied with the cooker, so I had to go to B&Q to get length of wire!! That was two and a half years ago and we haven't managed to burn the place down yet!

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**** me, you go away and a proper thread developed.

 

Ok, the picture is that the hob is ******** so I've taken it out. All wires are there and fine, so all that needs to be done is the wires screwed into the block of the new hob.

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FFS, it's three ****ing wires, make sure you use 10.0mm 3core Ho7-RNF cable which will be suitable for even the large modern hobs. In fact PM me your address and what length you need and I'll send you some. Just make sure the connections are tight in the connector. What Kw rating is it? You may get away with a 6.00mm cable.

 

I have just read through all of this thread and tbh i am surprised at everyone getting all uppity about 3 f*cking wires.

 

The above is 100%, you don't need to pay over the odds for a domestic sparky that wouldn't know his ass from his elbow (was talking to one the other day who seriously didn't know what 3 phase was and assumed that the 'blue phase' (old colours) was a nuetral cable)

 

Pancake, i am sure you can do it yourself, just make sure you put them in the right place and they don't come out with a big tug.

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http://www.partp.co.uk/consumer/consumer_diy.asp

 

Pancake, check this out, this should clear up the bs from this thread.

 

Ah BS - the smell of someone disagreeing with you. And you're pretty confident Pancake is fully aware of how to do work to the standard required are you?

 

"All work - however minor - must comply with Part P requirements and the current edition of the Wiring Regulations (BS7671:200)"

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To illustrate the type of problem that can occur, a few years ago an unfortunate woman was electrocuted when she emptied her dishwasher. As she bent down she steadied herself with her left hand by holding on to a metal kitchen-tool rack and her right hand touched the earthed inside of the dishwasher. The tool rack was live because one of the mounting screws had gone through a live cable which had previously been fitted diagonally across the wall, against the regulations. These regulations are there for a reason, and it's not just to keep people in paid employment.

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Ah BS - the smell of someone disagreeing with you. And you're pretty confident Pancake is fully aware of how to do work to the standard required are you?

 

"All work - however minor - must comply with Part P requirements and the current edition of the Wiring Regulations (BS7671:200)"

That's just the first part. The second goes on to define this sort of work as notifiable.

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Pancake - with a new baby in the house, I do question your reasoning for not just bloody paying someone qualified to get the work done.

 

because he can do it himself and save money for a pram/nappies/trip to unit 1 while his mrs recovers?

 

Yes, he will save the money an electrcian will charge and then he will use it to go and see his wife and child. He'll buy some flowers for the wife, maybe some chocolates. He'll take a little toy for the child. He may even get a bottle of champagne on the way home, ready for the happy return of his family. His wife will walk into the house, new born in arms and Pancok will pop open the bottle of champers. "I'd rather just have a up of tea sweetheart" she'll say. So off he goes to put the kettle on the hob. He switches it on.

 

POWZER

 

The sound of someone being electrocuted. A family torn apart. Is that what you want Stevo? I don't think people can be too safe when it comes to electrcity. I have a friend whose wife thought she could rewire a light fitting. He is a widower now.

 

Do the right thing Panock. Get a professional in. In fact, I'll do it for £70 (I am fully qualfied and it is my day job). PM me.

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It does clear it up, the hob is an appliance and not part of the electrical installation so therefore Part P does not apply.

 

I live in a recently rewired house with new circuit breakers and I'm 95% certain I could do the job myself - but I wouldnt because I have two young kids. Pancake has a new baby and like most people probably lives in house where the wiring hasnt been touched for years. Maybe the cooker box is okay, maybe the wiring is corroded or is shorting out somewhere. Maybe some ****wit has bridged the terminals with aluminium foil. Do you know that for certain his wiring is okay? Has Pancake got a testing meter? is it really worth it for £50?

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Yes, he will save the money an electrcian will charge and then he will use it to go and see his wife and child. He'll buy some flowers for the wife, maybe some chocolates. He'll take a little toy for the child. He may even get a bottle of champagne on the way home, ready for the happy return of his family. His wife will walk into the house, new born in arms and Pancok will pop open the bottle of champers. "I'd rather just have a up of tea sweetheart" she'll say. So off he goes to put the kettle on the hob. He switches it on.

 

POWZER

 

The sound of someone being electrocuted. A family torn apart. Is that what you want Stevo? I don't think people can be too safe when it comes to electrcity. I have a friend whose wife thought she could rewire a light fitting. He is a widower now.

 

Do the right thing Panock. Get a professional in. In fact, I'll do it for £70 (I am fully qualfied and it is my day job). PM me.

 

 

 

:smt044

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Lets get this straight, people are willing to pay £50 or more for some hairy ars*d f*ckwit who is apparantly the dogs danglies to come in and remove the three old wires and then fit three new wires ??

 

I expect he will then turn the hob on and say, there you go !! Will he check previous wiring ?? Will he f*ck.

 

We are talking about a job that will take about 10 minutes tops, not commisioning new switchgear on a high voltage network.

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I live in a recently rewired house with new circuit breakers and I'm 95% certain I could do the job myself - but I wouldnt because I have two young kids. Pancake has a new baby and like most people probably lives in house where the wiring hasnt been touched for years. Maybe the cooker box is okay, maybe the wiring is corroded or is shorting out somewhere. Maybe some ****wit has bridged the terminals with aluminium foil. Do you know that for certain his wiring is okay? Has Pancake got a testing meter? is it really worth it for £50?

 

I'm not saying he should do it himself, what I'm arguing is that Part P does not apply. Personally as a sparkie myself I don't believe anybody who is unqualified should undertake any electrical work. I've worked in too many properties where so called diy electrical experts do things they shouldn't.

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Is a hob not a 'cooker'?

 

 

You need to understand that when they are talking about cookers on the Part P website you were looking at they are talking about wiring cooker circuits not connecting a cooker to an existing circuit.

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You need to understand that when they are talking about cookers on the Part P website you were looking at they are talking about wiring cooker circuits not connecting a cooker to an existing circuit.

I take your point. So providing that the original equipment was installed safely and correctly then replacing with another hob is ok, always provided that the new unit does not take significantly more power than the previous?

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I take your point. So providing that the original equipment was installed safely and correctly then replacing with another hob is ok, always provided that the new unit does not take significantly more power than the previous?

 

To be fair thats probably why people should use an electrician, it's not such a problem with cookers but new showers tend to be alot higher wattage, it used to be ok to wire showers in 6mm2 twin and earth cable but because new showers tend to be considerably higher wattage in alot of cases the supply cable needs to be 10mm2 twin and earth. This can become a problem when somebody just replaces an old shower with a new one but does not upgrade the supply cable feeding it.

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I take your point. So providing that the original equipment was installed safely and correctly then replacing with another hob is ok, always provided that the new unit does not take significantly more power than the previous?

 

I suppose i never thought about that little dilemma, i am guessing thats why your chartered and i am still learning lol

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Ah BS - the smell of someone disagreeing with you. And you're pretty confident Pancake is fully aware of how to do work to the standard required are you?

 

"All work - however minor - must comply with Part P requirements and the current edition of the Wiring Regulations (BS7671:200)"

 

Which is what i said in the first instance ;)

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Having read through these posts it's obvious that "some" of you have total disregard for safety in the home when it comes to electricity. I've worked in the trade since I was 16 (industrial & domestic) and have seen many domestic installations where the occupants have "DIYed" it to an appalling & dangerous nature just because they either think they know what they're doing or simply because they want to save money.

 

ALL electrical work should be carried out by qualified tradesmen matter how small it may seem. All consumer unit replacements are notifiable as are all new circuits and low voltage lighting etc etc but a majority of it applies to special locations such as kitchens, bathrooms/shower/wet rooms & gardens/external

 

Part P certification I agree can be a bind but it's there for a good reason.

 

HTH

http://www.niceic.org.uk/en/findacontractor/index.asp

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Having read through these posts it's obvious that "some" of you have total disregard for safety in the home when it comes to electricity. I've worked in the trade since I was 16 (industrial & domestic) and have seen many domestic installations where the occupants have "DIYed" it to an appalling & dangerous nature just because they either think they know what they're doing or simply because they want to save money.

 

ALL electrical work should be carried out by qualified tradesmen matter how small it may seem. All consumer unit replacements are notifiable as are all new circuits and low voltage lighting etc etc but a majority of it applies to special locations such as kitchens, bathrooms/shower/wet rooms & gardens/external

 

Part P certification I agree can be a bind but it's there for a good reason.

 

HTH

http://www.niceic.org.uk/en/findacontractor/index.asp

 

 

Hello Phil B, what line of work are you in? Agree with what you are saying, but do tell me something which makes my balls itch, how the hell can B&Q sell consumer units, showers & other electrical supplies which are fatal in the wrong hands? And it is totally acceptable for Joe Bloggs to carry out electrical installation in his own home. Don't say it isn't because it is?

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Lets get this straight, people are willing to pay £50 or more for some hairy ars*d f*ckwit who is apparantly the dogs danglies to come in and remove the three old wires and then fit three new wires ??

 

I expect he will then turn the hob on and say, there you go !! Will he check previous wiring ?? Will he f*ck.

 

We are talking about a job that will take about 10 minutes tops, not commisioning new switchgear on a high voltage network.

 

You are talking absolute b*llocks, before the electrician can issue the certificate he has to do a raft of tests on the fuse board as I found out last year when I had an electrical fault repaired by a proper electrician, and I would always call one in, I worked in the Electrical Generation Industry for 17 years and I can tell you 240 volts is a killer.

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You are talking absolute b*llocks, before the electrician can issue the certificate he has to do a raft of tests on the fuse board as I found out last year when I had an electrical fault repaired by a proper electrician, and I would always call one in, I worked in the Electrical Generation Industry for 17 years and I can tell you 240 volts is a killer.

 

 

Volts thrill, Amps kill ;)

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