Simply NOT good enough Jan/Lowe

[AndyD]

I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed to lose 4-1 to Coventry. Dump these over paid idiots in a war zone for a week and they MIGHT appreciate how fortunate they really are. Lucky guys just treading water. Yes, it's fickle - but I am sick of this!!!!!

[Alain Perrin]

It doesn't make you fickle to be ****ed off - that's a natural fans reaction when we lose.

 

However we all need a dose of reality. The situation we (Saints) are in doesn't allow us to have the best players in the league, or the most experienced players in the league. We have no money, we have youth and that is about it.

 

People seem to think there are alternatives, I say step up with them. The 'get some journeymen in to steady the ship approach' is all well and good, but what happens when the journeymen just cement us in mid table (they ain't got resale value).

 

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

Unfortunately until the medicine is taken there will be plenty more defeats against opposition some fans think we should be beating. One day, yes, today the best we can hope for is survival (financially and in the Championship)

[AndyD]

It doesn't make you fickle to be ****ed off - that's a natural fans reaction when we lose.

 

However we all need a dose of reality. The situation we (Saints) are in doesn't allow us to have the best players in the league, or the most experienced players in the league. We have no money, we have youth and that is about it.

 

People seem to think there are alternatives, I say step up with them. The 'get some journeymen in to steady the ship approach' is all well and good, but what happens when the journeymen just cement us in mid table (they ain't got resale value).

 

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

Unfortunately until the medicine is taken there will be plenty more defeats against opposition some fans think we should be beating. One day, yes, today the best we can hope for is survival (financially and in the Championship)

 

you are right - but it is a bitter pill to swallow

[Norm]

AP, that's what is called 'a hole in one'. Fair summary of our situation.

[corky morris]

We can understand why we are doing what we are doing ,but Mr Lowe was the single biggest reason we are in this mess & the slightest bit of humility from the man may make the medicine taste a wee bit better.

 

 

 

 

It doesn't make you fickle to be ****ed off - that's a natural fans reaction when we lose.

 

However we all need a dose of reality. The situation we (Saints) are in doesn't allow us to have the best players in the league, or the most experienced players in the league. We have no money, we have youth and that is about it.

 

People seem to think there are alternatives, I say step up with them. The 'get some journeymen in to steady the ship approach' is all well and good, but what happens when the journeymen just cement us in mid table (they ain't got resale value).

 

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

Unfortunately until the medicine is taken there will be plenty more defeats against opposition some fans think we should be beating. One day, yes, today the best we can hope for is survival (financially and in the Championship)

[Big Ron fan]

AP, that's what is called 'a hole in one'. Fair summary of our situation.

 

No it's not. As I and others have said several times, we are struggling primarily because of footballing decisions taken by Lowe (appointing JP and apparently insisting that several senior pros whom we couldn't sell shouldn't be picked) and JP (selection and dreadful tactics).

[Windmill Arm 2]

Just not good enough or experienced enough, simple as that. Burley is to blame.

[samoakley]

I think the JP has to take blame with his players because i feel yesterday he should of taken off Mills and Mcgoldrick at Half time and made subs at 2-0.

 

Lowe should be blamed for not keeping Pearson.

[mprobert]

You've got to laugh - we go from "automatic promotion" to "doomed to administration" and back again depending on each result.

[Saint Billy]

No it's not. As I and others have said several times, we are struggling primarily because of footballing decisions taken by Lowe (appointing JP and apparently insisting that several senior pros whom we couldn't sell shouldn't be picked) and JP (selection and dreadful tactics).

 

Agreed!, we all understand the financial mess we are in, but at least we could have been given a fighting chance by having a manager with a bit of knowledge about this league.

 

I am sure NP would have stayed on and worked with these kids, but no, in his wisdom, Lowe decides to gamble lock ,stock and barrel at a time when the club is already in a vulnerable state.

 

This is not a situation forced on us by finances, this is a situation forced on us by a guy who has a history of making almighty blunders, and that is a pill many of us do not want or have to swallow.

[instinct]

we need experienced left back and right back on loan! or play thomas at right back and skacel at left back, would give us much better defence

 

mills shows promise but isn't ready yet

[lordswoodsaints]

I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed to lose 4-1 to Coventry. Dump these over paid idiots in a war zone for a week and they MIGHT appreciate how fortunate they really are. Lucky guys just treading water. Yes, it's fickle - but I am sick of this!!!!!

 

dont be embarrassed,we lost to a better team.

AP is right,we dont have another option,we have tried getting so called 'better' players in on stupid money and where did it get us? narrowly avoiding relegation.

losing to coventry is nothing to be ashamed of,they were simply the better team who played some good football.we couldnt deal with them as they were too good for us.

[Alain Perrin]

Agreed!, we all understand the financial mess we are in, but at least we could have been given a fighting chance by having a manager with a bit of knowledge about this league.

 

I am sure NP would have stayed on and worked with these kids, but no, in his wisdom, Lowe decides to gamble lock ,stock and barrel at a time when the club is already in a vulnerable state.

 

This is not a situation forced on us by finances, this is a situation forced on us by a guy who has a history of making almighty blunders, and that is a pill many of us do not want or have to swallow.

 

Pearson, smearson. JP probably has now the same experience that Pearson has (had) of managing in the Championship and he didn't exactly set the world on light for us. Yes, giving him a contract was an option (allegedly a more expensive one) but he hasn't got a track record of working with youth.

 

We've played better football under JP than under Pearson, with broadly the same results (forget the euphoria of Sheffield Utd and remember debacles like Hull away).

[Saint Billy]

dont be embarrassed,we lost to a better team.

AP is right,we dont have another option,we have tried getting so called 'better' players in on stupid money and where did it get us? narrowly avoiding relegation.

losing to coventry is nothing to be ashamed of,they were simply the better team who played some good football.we couldnt deal with them as they were too good for us.

 

The problem is that at least 19 other sides, and probably more are better than us in this division!

[Mole]

The Dutch clown should be playing Rudi Skacel. Personally i couldn't give a flying **** about what's gone on in the past, it's up to Portvliet to iron out any problems. Leaving our best player out is madness.

[Snowballs2]

Strange how after yet another hammering both Scooby and Sundance have gone AWOL, I am sure Scooby is collecting money to forward on to Lowe so he can sign another striker instead of a defender

[John]

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

We don't have enough resources to pay off the huge debts that are mounting with each passing week because:

a) the gates are too low versus budget

b) Lowe and Wilde have failed (yet again) to invest any money

c) Even after selling what few players we have left to sell, Davis, maybe Lallana, Surman; it won't be anywhere near enough to do more than keep the wolf from the door for a few months until the inevitable happens.

 

This isn't some brilliant strategy or a *** or bust exercise...it is something our creditors set in place. You don't really believe that Lowe and Wilde are running the agenda do you? The creditors are doing that. Lowe and Wilde were TOLD to get the higher wages off the books...preferably by selling them, loaning out if necessary. It is what any bank would do under the circumstances. Next step; if we haven't increased incomes (which we haven't) then the creditors will demand the sale of players to meet the interest on loans etc etc...there are no other assets left...and once that happens we will be left with a few kids and a few journeymen always injured..and that means relegation, smaller gates and administration.

[alpine_saint]

You've got to laugh - we go from "automatic promotion" to "doomed to administration" and back again depending on each result.

 

No we dont, even the most happy-clappy idiot on here is not claiming automatic promotion is anywhere near on the cards following beating Doncaster Rovers and a truly shiite Norwich side.

[alpine_saint]

We don't have enough resources to pay off the huge debts that are mounting with each passing week because:

a) the gates are too low versus budget

b) Lowe and Wilde have failed (yet again) to invest any money

c) Even after selling what few players we have left to sell, Davis, maybe Lallana, Surman; it won't be anywhere near enough to do more than keep the wolf from the door for a few months until the inevitable happens.

 

This isn't some brilliant strategy or a *** or bust exercise...it is something our creditors set in place. You don't really believe that Lowe and Wilde are running the agenda do you? The creditors are doing that. Lowe and Wilde were TOLD to get the higher wages off the books...preferably by selling them, loaning out if necessary. It is what any bank would do under the circumstances. Next step; if we haven't increased incomes (which we haven't) then the creditors will demand the sale of players to meet the interest on loans etc etc...there are no other assets left...and once that happens we will be left with a few kids and a few journeymen always injured..and that means relegation, smaller gates and administration.

 

Yep.

 

As a few people have already asserted, we are in administration already actually, only without the points loss, which is in the post anyway.

[John]

Yep.

 

As a few people have already asserted, we are in administration already actually, only without the points loss, which is in the post anyway.

 

Couldn't agree more Alpine. To be honest, many boards would already have called time...the only reason we haven't is because Lowe & Wilde can't stand the thought of their share investment going down the pan (reasonable enough I suppose)...in a way, they were the banks best option for that very reason...the banks also stand to lose big time once we hit official administration so Lowe & Wilde are seen by them as the one group that would be daft enough to try and put a sticking plaster on a gaping wound...but they all know deep down the game is up...just depends how long they want to keep the patient stable before they switch off the life support.

[Snowballs2]

It will be interesting to see just how long it will take Lowe and Wilde to admit we are ****ed, and file for administration.

Quite a number believe that Lowe will try and buy the PLC on the cheap, even he is not silly enough to do that, the support would be the same as it is today if he did. It would go into administration again pretty quickly simply because most of us do not want him any where near our club.

[alpine_saint]

It will be interesting to see just how long it will take Lowe and Wilde to admit we are ****ed, and file for administration.

Quite a number believe that Lowe will try and buy the PLC on the cheap, even he is not silly enough to do that, the support would be the same as it is today if he did. It would go into administration again pretty quickly simply because most of us do not want him any where near our club.

 

I agree. If Lowe buys the club in admin, he's just throwing away money that might have done more good now...

[Mole1]

I agree. If Lowe buys the club in admin, he's just throwing away money that might have done more good now...

 

Lowe won't buy the club post admin because he's not the largest creditor and therefore won't able to do "a Ken Bates" and buy us on the cheap.

 

Barclays/Norwich Union call the shots and will demand the most they can recoup back.

 

This scenario rules out Lowe and Wilde, but possibly rules in Leon Crouch and friends....

[redorwhitelion]

To quote Kipling ""Success and failure are the same impostor". The point being with a team of 20 year olds we are going to go from short winning streaks to a good thumping. We'll probably dish out two or three ourselves at some point.

 

We all know its going to be a long old season, but however disapointing it is to be beaten 4-1 at Coventry I don't see it as the death knell. To the same extent that wins against Doncaster and Norwich are no indication of a renaissance.

 

A true test may well be at home to Watford in two weeks, but having said that to win, lose or draw that fixture will not condemn or secure either club.

[.comsaint]

It doesn't make you fickle to be ****ed off - that's a natural fans reaction when we lose.

 

However we all need a dose of reality. The situation we (Saints) are in doesn't allow us to have the best players in the league, or the most experienced players in the league. We have no money, we have youth and that is about it.

 

People seem to think there are alternatives, I say step up with them. The 'get some journeymen in to steady the ship approach' is all well and good, but what happens when the journeymen just cement us in mid table (they ain't got resale value).

 

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

Unfortunately until the medicine is taken there will be plenty more defeats against opposition some fans think we should be beating. One day, yes, today the best we can hope for is survival (financially and in the Championship)

 

Spot on AP - and them there are the facts! Good post sir.

 

For what it's worth; I really & truly enjoy JP being here. I like what he's trying to do. I know we're as likely to win one week...only to lose the next. I can live with that. We'll finish just below halfway somewhere - but the lads will have a whole season of experience under their belts for the following one. We have injuries to key players which doesn't help our cause. We have no money either. I was one of those calling for the youngsters when Burley was pizzing money away on has-been journeymen & couldn't-give-a-toss players who were only here to pick up their wages. Give me JP anyday - and the kids. What we don't need is yet another managerial change. We've had far too many of them. Spurs & Newcastle (the bottom 2 clubs in the Prem) prove that. I'm hanging on for the ride & looking forward to EXACTLY what I knew we'd get: a season of many ups & downs - wins & losses - but at least (finally) a bunch of youngsters that actually give a toss about the club, the shirt & the fans on the terraces.

 

Schexy futbol indeed!

[up and away]

Originally Posted by Snowballs2

It will be interesting to see just how long it will take Lowe and Wilde to admit we are ****ed, and file for administration.

Quite a number believe that Lowe will try and buy the PLC on the cheap, even he is not silly enough to do that, the support would be the same as it is today if he did. It would go into administration again pretty quickly simply because most of us do not want him any where near our club.

I agree. If Lowe buys the club in admin, he's just throwing away money that might have done more good now...

 

It's only idiots like yourselves who believe Lowe will try and buy the club post administration, it just will not happen.

 

But we do know one group that is looking to pick up the club post administration, Crouch et al, possible Fulthorpe if he can crack the code on the piggy bank. But as you say "that might have done more good now...",

strange how you never considered that alternative?

 

With only minimal funds at their disposal I feel they cannot afford the debts and require administration to wipe everything out, along with any remaining assets. If you think things are bad now, wait for that little lot to settle out.

 

Anyone that believes by Crouch coming back as Chairman will actually increase the gate is sadly deluded. We deserve to be where we are and if the supporters wanted to do anything about it they could.

[Norm]

No it's not. As I and others have said several times, we are struggling primarily because of footballing decisions taken by Lowe (appointing JP and apparently insisting that several senior pros whom we couldn't sell shouldn't be picked) and JP (selection and dreadful tactics).

 

I wasn't wanting to play the 'Let's blame someone' game. I was trying to point out that we are in the mire re finance and have to deal with what we have now.

 

We all know that mistakes were made but that is not getting us anywhere at the moment. We need to cope with the facts in front of us. I would love some Billionaire to park outside SMS and write a blank cheque but is that likely, no, I doubt it.

[solentstars]

You've got to laugh - we go from "automatic promotion" to "doomed to administration" and back again depending on each result.

yep that sums up most of the threads and the blame game, i

expected this seasons saints side t0 be up and down over the season.i prefer this side to last seasons team .

[eelpie]

We are where we are because for the last couple of years the management have not understood the basics of providing adequate specialist defenders for the team. JPV has weak material to work with. Plus defensive tactics and strategies are simply naiive.

[solentstars]

We can understand why we are doing what we are doing ,but Mr Lowe was the single biggest reason we are in this mess & the slightest bit of humility from the man may make the medicine taste a wee bit better.

this seems like groundhog day.

[solentstars]

Pearson, smearson. JP probably has now the same experience that Pearson has (had) of managing in the Championship and he didn't exactly set the world on light for us. Yes, giving him a contract was an option (allegedly a more expensive one) but he hasn't got a track record of working with youth.

 

We've played better football under JP than under Pearson, with broadly the same results (forget the euphoria of Sheffield Utd and remember debacles like Hull away).

i liked pearson and remember when he got slated on this forum,thats history now and i am 100% behind jan now.

[SaintRichmond]

We don't have enough resources to pay off the huge debts that are mounting with each passing week because:

a) the gates are too low versus budget

b) Lowe and Wilde have failed (yet again) to invest any money

c) Even after selling what few players we have left to sell, Davis, maybe Lallana, Surman; it won't be anywhere near enough to do more than keep the wolf from the door for a few months until the inevitable happens.

 

This isn't some brilliant strategy or a *** or bust exercise...it is something our creditors set in place. You don't really believe that Lowe and Wilde are running the agenda do you? The creditors are doing that. Lowe and Wilde were TOLD to get the higher wages off the books...preferably by selling them, loaning out if necessary. It is what any bank would do under the circumstances. Next step; if we haven't increased incomes (which we haven't) then the creditors will demand the sale of players to meet the interest on loans etc etc...there are no other assets left...and once that happens we will be left with a few kids and a few journeymen always injured..and that means relegation, smaller gates and administration.

 

 

 

We were, and still are HEADING FOR ADMINISTRATION in any case ....... All Lowe has done, is basically what any proven Administrator would have done

 

The basic difference is, AFTER Administration, you pick up the pieces and BUILD ........... with Lowe, after all the Fire Sales etc etc ......... we are STILL in NO BETTER POSITION than when it started ......... and soon, even Lowe will have NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

The man is a complete waste of space ............ I hope Wilde is still pleased

 

Gordon Brown and Peter Mandleson

 

Rupert Lowe and Michael Wilde

 

I wonder where the first Dagger will come from ???

[solentstars]

We were, and still are HEADING FOR ADMINISTRATION in any case ....... All Lowe has done, is basically what any proven Administrator would have done

 

The basic difference is, AFTER Administration, you pick up the pieces and BUILD ........... with Lowe, after all the Fire Sales etc etc ......... we are STILL in NO BETTER POSITION than when it started ......... and soon, even Lowe will have NOTHING LEFT TO SELL

 

The man is a complete waste of space ............ I hope Wilde is still pleased

 

Gordon Brown and Peter Mandleson

 

Rupert Lowe and Michael Wilde

 

I wonder where the first Dagger will come from ???

Gordon Brown and Peter Mandleson did they manage our team ,i must have missed that.:confused:

[SaintRichmond]

Gordon Brown and Peter Mandleson did they manage our team ,i must have missed that.:confused:

 

 

They might just as well have .............

 

 

....... I've heard that Mandleson is good at the back ............

[solentstars]

They might just as well have .............

 

 

....... I've heard that Mandleson is good at the back ............

got to watch him hes a good midfield schemer.

[Calvin]

I feel totally embarrassed and ashamed to lose 4-1 to Coventry. Dump these over paid idiots in a war zone for a week and they MIGHT appreciate how fortunate they really are. Lucky guys just treading water. Yes, it's fickle - but I am sick of this!!!!!

 

Over paid

They're hardly over paid. Maybe Mcgoldrick is the over paid player as he has signed a big contract recently.

[AwaySaint1]

I wanted to type this in a big bold font but have resisted.

 

 

Playing kids=inconsistent

[St Paul]

Yes, giving him a contract was an option (allegedly a more expensive one) but he hasn't got a track record of working with youth.

 

 

.

 

Is it another Nigel Pearson who worked with the English U21's then?

[mitch01]

Just not good enough or experienced enough, simple as that. Burley is to blame.

 

Nope, those who allowed him to spend so much of the club's money on wages last summer are to blame.

[S4INT]

Spot on AP - and them there are the facts! Good post sir.

 

For what it's worth; I really & truly enjoy JP being here. I like what he's trying to do. I know we're as likely to win one week...only to lose the next. I can live with that. We'll finish just below halfway somewhere - but the lads will have a whole season of experience under their belts for the following one. We have injuries to key players which doesn't help our cause. We have no money either. I was one of those calling for the youngsters when Burley was pizzing money away on has-been journeymen & couldn't-give-a-toss players who were only here to pick up their wages. Give me JP anyday - and the kids. What we don't need is yet another managerial change. We've had far too many of them. Spurs & Newcastle (the bottom 2 clubs in the Prem) prove that. I'm hanging on for the ride & looking forward to EXACTLY what I knew we'd get: a season of many ups & downs - wins & losses - but at least (finally) a bunch of youngsters that actually give a toss about the club, the shirt & the fans on the terraces.

 

Schexy futbol indeed!

 

What he said *100

[alpine_saint]

It's only idiots like yourselves who believe Lowe will try and buy the club post administration, it just will not happen.

 

 

LMFAO.

 

Seeing as I am one of the biggest Lowe-haters on this site, and have been clamouring for administration for bloody months in order to get Lowe out of the club once-and-for-all, it really is hillarious to be called an idiot that thinks Lowe will buy the club in administration :rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

You might want to rethink that post...

[mprobert]

Lowe is also the main architect of the current credit crunch - fact

 

As soon as the worlds money markets go into melt down he will buy them all up - you heard it here first

 

He was also the brains behind the Neil Armstrong first man on the moon scam, the first global flood, and he invented malaria

 

alledgedly

[VectisSaint]

but he hasn't got a track record of working with youth.

 

Sorry fella, but that is where you are completely wrong. He does have a track record of working with youth, and at a higher level than JP (this is not to knock JP who I have a lot of respect for simply a fact that so many overlook). NP has worked with every level of the England set up, up to and including u21. Cast your mind back, and it was NP who was bringing youth back into the team during his spell in charge (Baseya, McGoldrick, Lallana, Gillett and Poke all made contributions), depsite the fact that he was battling to avoid the drop with the legacy that Burley (and Gorman/Dodd) had left us. I would have agreed if you had said he didn't have much experience in the League of managing a team, but to knock his youth credentials is just plain nonsense, thats why he would have ben ideal in our current situation. In any case, he seems to be doing quite well this season as well, as far as I can see, certainly better than the pillock before him.

[solentstars]

Spot on AP - and them there are the facts! Good post sir.

 

For what it's worth; I really & truly enjoy JP being here. I like what he's trying to do. I know we're as likely to win one week...only to lose the next. I can live with that. We'll finish just below halfway somewhere - but the lads will have a whole season of experience under their belts for the following one. We have injuries to key players which doesn't help our cause. We have no money either. I was one of those calling for the youngsters when Burley was pizzing money away on has-been journeymen & couldn't-give-a-toss players who were only here to pick up their wages. Give me JP anyday - and the kids. What we don't need is yet another managerial change. We've had far too many of them. Spurs & Newcastle (the bottom 2 clubs in the Prem) prove that. I'm hanging on for the ride & looking forward to EXACTLY what I knew we'd get: a season of many ups & downs - wins & losses - but at least (finally) a bunch of youngsters that actually give a toss about the club, the shirt & the fans on the terraces.

 

Schexy futbol indeed!

great post just what i would have written.

[dubai_phil]

We won't go into admin.

 

Simple facts - there are about 15 weeks until the transfer window re-opens

 

The policy of "blooding the youngsters" has seen the development of Lallana especially, but also "to a certain extent" Gillett, James, DMG, as well as the emergence of Kelvin as a "quality shot stopper". That gives ALL of those kids a resale value.

 

Barclays Bank hold the purse strings, they make the decisions. Norwich Union are a preffered creditor as would be the tax & VAT man. By allowing the club to continue trading and to continue giving the kids experience, BARCLAYS are simply ensuring that come January, the Academy youngsters CAN be sold to cover the bank overdraft and so they avoid becoming BOTTOM of the pile in an admin situation.

 

MEANWHILE we have been bringing in players who are NOT of value yet, on which we have loan extansion options come January and who are feeling their way into our style. The next generation - Gasmi, Pulis, Schneiderlin, Lancashire, White, Hatch, Mills, Holmes, Peckhart/Robertson/Smith maybe will have become more experienced.

 

Whether they could actually keep us in the league is another matter, but what it buys the Bank, and the club is TIME to try and find a white knight or for the "maybe forlorn" hope that they will click as a team.

 

Over the weekend I have been thinking this through and it starts to make sense, forget the attendances, as far as the BANK are concerned player sales will trade us out of the last of the fiscal mire and reduce their exposure. The lower gates just mean we EITHER have to get MORE for our kids OR more of them have to be sold. It will reach the point where even 450k for say James will be needed.

 

There is NO way the bank will pull the plug UNTIL after they maximise the amount of money they can get back from sales. Put us in Admin , we'd get 75 quid for Lallana and the bank would get nothing.

 

Any other replacements? Well if they don't go THEN I think we'll see Thomas, Euell & Rudi used far more. they have little resale value, are costing 2mil a year and so the kids will be sold to give us what many are asking for - Rudi back in the team... But right NOW their presence in the team would IN THEORY stop a youngster INCREASINg his value by keeping him out the team. (As well as adding cost pressures for bonuses etc)

 

Hope he's worth it and hope I'm wrong

Edited 5 October, 2008 by dubai_phil

[Wes Tender]

Sorry fella, but that is where you are completely wrong. He does have a track record of working with youth, and at a higher level than JP (this is not to knock JP who I have a lot of respect for simply a fact that so many overlook). NP has worked with every level of the England set up, up to and including u21. Cast your mind back, and it was NP who was bringing youth back into the team during his spell in charge (Baseya, McGoldrick, Lallana, Gillett and Poke all made contributions), depsite the fact that he was battling to avoid the drop with the legacy that Burley (and Gorman/Dodd) had left us. I would have agreed if you had said he didn't have much experience in the League of managing a team, but to knock his youth credentials is just plain nonsense, thats why he would have ben ideal in our current situation. In any case, he seems to be doing quite well this season as well, as far as I can see, certainly better than the pillock before him.

 

A very good response, Vectis. That's nailed that one and let's not hear this drivel any longer.

 

Now for a couple of other points.

 

Alain Perrin

People seem to think there are alternatives, I say step up with them. The 'get some journeymen in to steady the ship approach' is all well and good, but what happens when the journeymen just cement us in mid table (they ain't got resale value).

 

The **** or bust approach that Lowe is taking is one of our few outs. Blood the youngsters, cut the costs, sell some of those in the shop window, pay off the debts - THEN build for the future.

 

I'd happily settle for mid table right now. The journeymen will be professional players, used to this division and able to provide experience and cover for those youngsters who were forced into the team too early and are the weak links until they are ready.

 

As for steadying the ship and rebuilding next season, all of the best young players will have been sold either in the January window or at the end of the season, so we never will be able to rebuild under this situation. It will be a constant struggle to survive, both on the field and financially.

 

Alain Perrin

We've played better football under JP than under Pearson, with broadly the same results (forget the euphoria of Sheffield Utd and remember debacles like Hull away).

 

Are you referring to the same Hull that recently beat Arsenal and Spurs and are currently third in the Premiership? And presumably Coventry doesn't count as a debacle for some reason, although Pearson managed a draw against them and the same against West Brom and had arguably a more difficult run of games than JP. Pearson's team was improving, whilst JP's is up and down like a Yoyo.

[Big Ron fan]

Phil, I can see the logic in what you say. The main debt, though, is the stadium debt, secured on the main asset, the stadium.

 

If we went into admin, how much would actually be received by the administrator for the stadium, and what would the new owner do with it? Presumably, with low gates and quite likely playing in League 1, we wouldn't be able to finance any sort of 'sale and lease back' arrangement. Could SMS be demolished and turned into flats once the property market recovers - what are the likely views of planners on this? Could it (God forbid!) be leased short-term to another major sports team in Hampshire that needs a bigger, temporary home while it builds a new stadium?

 

To what extent will these sort of restrictions on the use of the main asset affect what it would realise and therefore the worth of putting the club into administration in the first place?

[Capel Saint]

'As for steadying the ship and rebuilding next season, all of the best young players will have been sold either in the January window or at the end of the season, so we never will be able to rebuild under this situation. It will be a constant struggle to survive, both on the field and financially'

 

That is part of the problem and the club only ever goes one way. Look at Luton, Crewe etc. Consistently they had to sell their best players to try to balance the books and ended up relegated to the lower tiers as the general quality of the side reduces and they didn't have the time of a season or two to get their youngsters experienced enough. Our problem is that we also have a large stadium which isn't being filled hence higher overheads.

 

I fear for Saints if they have to sell what quality we do have in the January transfer window.

[dubai_phil]

Phil, I can see the logic in what you say. The main debt, though, is the stadium debt, secured on the main asset, the stadium.

 

If we went into admin, how much would actually be received by the administrator for the stadium, and what would the new owner do with it? Presumably, with low gates and quite likely playing in League 1, we wouldn't be able to finance any sort of 'sale and lease back' arrangement. Could SMS be demolished and turned into flats once the property market recovers - what are the likely views of planners on this? Could it (God forbid!) be leased short-term to another major sports team in Hampshire that needs a bigger, temporary home while it builds a new stadium?

 

To what extent will these sort of restrictions on the use of the main asset affect what it would realise and therefore the worth of putting the club into administration in the first place?

 

From what I recall, the Stadium is not owned by the Football Club Ltd but by another subsidiary of SLH. In theory even IF we went into admin as a CLUB, the stadium could still sit in the subsidiary and not be affected. the debt would likely still be there, but the BIG difference would be that the "new SFC 2008" would then have to pay rent on the stadium. No doubt the subsidiary would expect to make a profit between the mortgage and the rent - thus staying at SMS would actually burden the footballing side even MORE than it is now.

My main thrust is that the stadium debt is pretty much irrelevant to Barclays Bank. IF they liquidated the club NOW they'd get very little of their overdraft back as anything left over after tax, VAT and salaries would go to Norwich Union IF the entire SLH was broken up. So in fact it is in the interests of the BANK to keep us trading, and allow us to cash in players in January.

 

I THINK we had a hangover of non-stadium debt and higher wage bills after the transfer window closed. I THINK that the idea of staying in business until the end of the January window MAY allow us to have a sustainable business model based on crowds of 12,000. The HUGE worry is of course whether the players left could keep us in thes division.

 

But at LEAST it buys us TIME. All we really need now is for ENOUGH results before that point to make the job easier.

 

Like I said I may be wrong but a long slow admin to TRY and have a clean rump business left over that MAY be attractive for a buyer is about the only way I can interpret the lack of panic about gates and results in the "official" pronouncements from the club

[SaintRichmond]

We won't go into admin.

 

Simple facts - there are about 15 weeks until the transfer window re-opens

 

The policy of "blooding the youngsters" has seen the development of Lallana especially, but also "to a certain extent" Gillett, James, DMG, as well as the emergence of Kelvin as a "quality shot stopper". That gives ALL of those kids a resale value.

 

Barclays Bank hold the purse strings, they make the decisions. Norwich Union are a preffered creditor as would be the tax & VAT man. By allowing the club to continue trading and to continue giving the kids experience, BARCLAYS are simply ensuring that come January, the Academy youngsters CAN be sold to cover the bank overdraft and so they avoid becoming BOTTOM of the pile in an admin situation.

 

MEANWHILE we have been bringing in players who are NOT of value yet, on which we have loan extansion options come January and who are feeling their way into our style. The next generation - Gasmi, Pulis, Schneiderlin, Lancashire, White, Hatch, Mills, Holmes, Peckhart/Robertson/Smith maybe will have become more experienced.

 

Whether they could actually keep us in the league is another matter, but what it buys the Bank, and the club is TIME to try and find a white knight or for the "maybe forlorn" hope that they will click as a team.

 

Over the weekend I have been thinking this through and it starts to make sense, forget the attendances, as far as the BANK are concerned player sales will trade us out of the last of the fiscal mire and reduce their exposure. The lower gates just mean we EITHER have to get MORE for our kids OR more of them have to be sold. It will reach the point where even 450k for say James will be needed.

 

There is NO way the bank will pull the plug UNTIL after they maximise the amount of money they can get back from sales. Put us in Admin , we'd get 75 quid for Lallana and the bank would get nothing.

 

Any other replacements? Well if they don't go THEN I think we'll see Thomas, Euell & Rudi used far more. they have little resale value, are costing 2mil a year and so the kids will be sold to give us what many are asking for - Rudi back in the team... But right NOW their presence in the team would IN THEORY stop a youngster INCREASINg his value by keeping him out the team. (As well as adding cost pressures for bonuses etc)

 

Hope he's worth it and hope I'm wrong

 

 

 

And you REALLY believe all that ?????

 

If you honestly think that Lowe will EVER allow anyone near HIS Club, with Investment that would mean Lowe's Power Base to be eroded ........ then you are seriously deluding yourself

 

He attracted **** all during his First Reign of power

He will attract **** all during this one

 

WHY do people think he ( and Wilde ) have come back for the benefit of SAINTS ????

 

Wake up people !!! ...... they care about BUSINESS.... not FOOTBALL