SaintRichmond Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 In most walks of life, there is one common denominator If you want Quality, you have to pay for it, at the Market Rate, whether you think it right or not Now, if the Market Rate is higher than (Cortese) wants to shell out, then FINE BUT, at the end of the seson, should we NOT get promoted, he CANNOT blame anyone other than himself:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Deary me - where to start....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 In most walks of life, there is one common denominator If you want Quality, you have to pay for it, at the Market Rate, whether you think it right or not Now, if the Market Rate is higher than (Cortese) wants to shell out, then FINE BUT, at the end of the seson, should we NOT get promoted, he CANNOT blame anyone other than himself:) I quite agree, there is no doubt that Austin and Mackail-Smith would improve the first team, in a season where promotion is "essential" i would think we would not lose out on playerslike this for an extra £200k on the transfer fee or £2k a week wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 January, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Deary me - where to start....? You could try sitting on your avatar ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Perhaps you could preface the OP with a summary of the assumptions you are making and the facts, if any, you have at your fingertips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Maybe he didn't want to come here. Maybe Swindon / Posh don't want to sell to L1 rivals. Maybe the asking price was extortionate for players who have never played higher than L1. Maybe the players' wage demands were excessive. Maybe we didn't bid in the first place and have other targets up our sleeves. Why do we always need to blame somebody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 I quite agree, there is no doubt that Austin and Mackail-Smith would improve the first team, in a season where promotion is "essential" i would think we would not lose out on playerslike this for an extra £200k on the transfer fee or £2k a week wages. Where do these figures come from? How do we know what bids have been made and for how much? Who has been in discussing personal terms and rejected us because of £2k a week in wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Deary me - where to start....? Maybe he didn't want to come here. Maybe Swindon / Posh don't want to sell to L1 rivals. Maybe the asking price was extortionate for players who have never played higher than L1. Maybe the players' wage demands were excessive. Maybe we didn't bid in the first place and have other targets up our sleeves. Why do we always need to blame somebody? That is the start I was looking for....thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Where do these figures come from? How do we know what bids have been made and for how much? Who has been in discussing personal terms and rejected us because of £2k a week in wages? Nobody has discussed personal terms because we obviously have not obtained the right to discuss anything at all with any player. Even if we bid the bids were not high enough and that's it and all about it,and it wouldn't be 200K missing either it would probably be half the required amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Nobody has discussed personal terms because we obviously have not obtained the right to discuss anything at all with any player. Even if we bid the bids were not high enough and that's it and all about it,and it wouldn't be 200K missing either it would probably be half the required amount. I believe we concur, do we not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 January, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Perhaps you could preface the OP with a summary of the assumptions you are making and the facts, if any, you have at your fingertips. I am assuming NOTHING other than what may be how our season ends up We MAY get promoted, but nothing is guarenteed, so, we may NOt get promoted I was meerly pointing out, that, IF we do not get promoted, it may be because we did not shell out that extra bit more, for a player, or players that could have scored those few extra goals that gets us those few extra points which makes the difference between success and failure Thar scenario can be applied to a lot of things, not just football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 I believe we concur, do we not? I think we do yes. Don't like to see all this stupid talk about if and when and whatever.We aren't going to be spending 2 million on any player just now, not 1.5 million, probably not even a million. All this transfer talk and closing in on and I guarantee that Austin will be signing stuff has just created unrest among the populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 January, 2011 Author Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Maybe he didn't want to come here. Maybe Swindon / Posh don't want to sell to L1 rivals. Maybe the asking price was extortionate for players who have never played higher than L1. Maybe the players' wage demands were excessive. Maybe we didn't bid in the first place and have other targets up our sleeves. Why do we always need to blame somebody? Quite so, but that does NOT mean that he could be (our) difference between success and failure in Div 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 .....BUT, at the end of the seson, should we NOT get promoted, he CANNOT blame anyone other than himself:)So just to be clear: It won't have anything to do with the Manager failing in some way, or the (already expensively assembled) team failing to deliver - it will be down to the Chairman perceived lack of effort in the January transfer window to pay whatever somebody demands for a player, regardless of how OTT those demands are? If we fail to get promotion and, let's say Bournemouth, go up instead - will that be because they did blow all their money on OTT transfers in January, or will it be because their team and management did their job well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Where do these figures come from? How do we know what bids have been made and for how much? Who has been in discussing personal terms and rejected us because of £2k a week in wages? They haven't come from anywhere. The point i am making is that given promotion is "essential" i would hope that if we really want a top player we wouldn't lose them for the sake of a few grand. No one knows how much the bids are for and i am not pretending i do, but if Ipswich have had a bif accepted and we haven't, then we might speculate the reason is our bid wasn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 They haven't come from anywhere. The point i am making is that given promotion is "essential" i would hope that if we really want a top player we wouldn't lose them for the sake of a few grand. No one knows how much the bids are for and i am not pretending i do, but if Ipswich have had a bif accepted and we haven't, then we might speculate the reason is our bid wasn't enough?I think that if we deem a player essential to our promotion, then it is highly unlikely that we will miss out on that player for the sake of a few grand. It is more likely to be a significant difference that we just could not justify....at least I would hope so. It will be interesting to see what the fee Ipswich are willing to pay for Austin actually is. If it is around £1m then I would be puzzled that we could not compete for his services. If it is around £2m or more, then I would not be surprised that we could not compete. That is a huge figure for a rookie L1 player - unless you are a cash rich PL outfit (which we are not). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 I think that if we deem a player essential to our promotion, then it is highly unlikely that we will miss out on that player for the sake of a few grand. It is more likely to be a significant difference that we just could not justify....at least I would hope so. It will be interesting to see what the fee Ipswich are willing to pay for Austin actually is. If it is around £1m then I would be puzzled that we could not compete for his services. If it is around £2m or more, then I would not be surprised that we could not compete. That is a huge figure for a rookie L1 player - unless you are a cash rich PL outfit (which we are not). So we agree then. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokingFun Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 I am assuming NOTHING other than what may be how our season ends up We MAY get promoted, but nothing is guarenteed, so, we may NOt get promoted I was meerly pointing out, that, IF we do not get promoted, it may be because we did not shell out that extra bit more, for a player, or players that could have scored those few extra goals that gets us those few extra points which makes the difference between success and failure Thar scenario can be applied to a lot of things, not just football Then again it may not be anything to do with that ..... success and failure is not ever purely down to signing new players, it's whether they fit in, hit form, stay fit, have an unbalancing effect on the squad etc. I think i will trust NA rather than you here SR as he is proving more than capable so far of getting plenty out of the current squad and I am confident that he will continue to do so regardless of new signings or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 They haven't come from anywhere. The point i am making is that given promotion is "essential" i would hope that if we really want a top player we wouldn't lose them for the sake of a few grand. No one knows how much the bids are for and i am not pretending i do, but if Ipswich have had a bif accepted and we haven't, then we might speculate the reason is our bid wasn't enough? Or the player has stated he is not interested and so they will not be taking our bid forward (after all whats the point) or the clubs in question would rather sell to a team in a different league and not promotion rivals ?? Or the bid accepted by Ipswich is actually quite a way overpriced but Ipswich have decided they are willing to pay and we are not ?? We are hardly desperate for goalscorers TBH, we have decent players. Perhaps we could replace connolly but certainly are not in a situation where we NEED a striker to provide promotion. Buying people in Jan was never going to be easy and getting a few decent calibre players was also never going to be overly realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 remember what happened the last time we chucked money at an attempt to get out of a division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 They haven't come from anywhere. The point i am making is that given promotion is "essential" i would hope that if we really want a top player we wouldn't lose them for the sake of a few grand. No one knows how much the bids are for and i am not pretending i do, but if Ipswich have had a bif accepted and we haven't, then we might speculate the reason is our bid wasn't enough? What if we're £1.5m out and 10k in wages? The rumours were that both teams are asking £2.5m+. Also, buying this 1 player will not guarantee promotion, I actually think at the moment we need someone to replace Lallana for if he goes out injured (as he is now), but that will cost a fortune £3m+ imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 If we have a FINITE budget for achieving the five year plan, and that's almost certainly the case after the death of Marcus, we need to spread it effectively over the five years, not blow a big chunk of it needlessly in Year One (or Two). What we spend on players this year would then become unavailable for strengthening the squad when we reach the Championship - hopefully next season. Perhaps Cortese is just applying the budget as prudently as he can. We already have a squad that SHOULD get us out of this division, and Cortese might be taking a calculated gamble that it will. From what I've seen this season I think he's making the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 I am assuming NOTHING other than what may be how our season ends up We MAY get promoted, but nothing is guarenteed, so, we may NOt get promoted I was meerly pointing out, that, IF we do not get promoted, it may be because we did not shell out that extra bit more, for a player, or players that could have scored those few extra goals that gets us those few extra points which makes the difference between success and failure Thar scenario can be applied to a lot of things, not just football But isn't that the P****mouth scenario we all deplore? Spend what it takes even if you have not got it. Is that not where we got to administration because of £7m gamble that was lost in the play offs? Isn't that where we are as a country now and having to face major cut backs? You and I have no idea what the finances of the club are now, we have no idea who we have spoken to about new players and we have no idea whether there will be new signings before the window closes next week. You make it sound that all you have to do is walk in to a shop, decide which player you want, pay the price and walk out with him and of course it nothing like as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 But isn't that the P****mouth scenario we all deplore? Spend what it takes even if you have not got it. Is that not where we got to administration because of £7m gamble that was lost in the play offs? Isn't that where we are as a country now and having to face major cut backs? You and I have no idea what the finances of the club are now, we have no idea who we have spoken to about new players and we have no idea whether there will be new signings before the window closes next week. You make it sound that all you have to do is walk in to a shop, decide which player you want, pay the price and walk out with him and of course it nothing like as simple as that. Once again the old 7 million £ gamble, we more than recovered all of that money with the sales of Kenwyne Jones,Pele and Chris Baird not to mention Gareth Bale.Where we went wrong was in allowing the totally useless Burley to re-spend the money on massive contracts for has beens who did not perform. If you look at the whole Wilde/Crouch execs administration I'm sure that the fees out roughly match the fees in.It was the pay for Idiakiez,John,Euell,Rasiak,Saganowski,Vignal who were totally useless that did for us. How any idiot could pay Vignal 11K a week for what he put in for us is totally beyond all comprehension, but that came from Burley's total lack of managerial ability rather than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 Such is life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 What if we're £1.5m out and 10k in wages? The rumours were that both teams are asking £2.5m+. Also, buying this 1 player will not guarantee promotion, I actually think at the moment we need someone to replace Lallana for if he goes out injured (as he is now), but that will cost a fortune £3m+ imho. Like i said, for the sake of a couple of grand a week, i am not saying we go mental and pay £10m and £50k a week for a player that is only worth £800k FFS. If we bid £800k and the club want £1m for example then surely it's worth the extra £200k to get a quality player in that would help our promtion bid which is "esential"? We wont get anyone to replace Lallana, we are lucky to have him in L1, he is good enough for the PL IMO. No player of his standard is going to join us. Anyone saying we need someone to replace him is seriously deluded. Will they be any better than Dickson and Puncheon? And why would we pay £2-3m for a player that is going to go on the bench when Lallana is fit FFS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 January, 2011 Share Posted 27 January, 2011 This could easily fit into the Austin thread, the Mackail-Smith thread or the HCDAJFU thread. And FWIW, if we're not promoted at the end of the season Cortese will shoulder most of the blame anyway for sacking Pardew. The pressure is on him now, not the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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