Musings of an ordinary fan part 3

[landford.saint]

As part of my occasional senile ramblings, I thought it was time again to write down my incoherent thoughts on my club.

I know no one in the club, its management staff etc. and only one ex-player whom I speak to once in a while when he drops into my place of work. So basically I am just like the majority of you guys and galls out there.

 

The way I see things are that the club prior to July 2009 and Markus' takeover, was a completey different company to the one now. In the pre-amble to the recent Man Utd match WGS when talking about Saints said he couldn't figure out where all the money had gone, condidering that to his knowledge all the players wages were reduced by 50% upon relegation. This line of thougtht about were all the clubs transfer/ticket etc. money had gone was debated by some on here (if my fading memeory serves me right). When ML and his trusted man NC saved the club I recall them saying how lacking and disorganised the management structure had been. There was I believe at this time many examples of the 'old boy network' and cronyism with people using the club as a bit of a cash cow. I remember stories on this forum and peoples incredulous reaction about how much Lawrie Mac. was reputed to be being paid for an 'ambassador' role.

NC has a experienced history in banking and on his arrival at the club, I recall him saying how much work was needed to get basic business practices re-established at the club. He has stated more than once that he wants the club to be self-supporting. To this end he has not just brought in the people he believes are best for the job in whatever part of the business they are required, but he has also disposed of the deadwood and unproductive areas and personel.

Under the old regime all hosts of people were making nice livings off the club, through 'advisory' roles or 'ambassadors' or from gifts of shares etc. When these people were cast adrift by NC most have faded away into the distance and keep their own thoughts to themselves. A few however appear bitter and would seem to be making a continued attack on NC personnally. Stirring up all sorts of rubbish trying to destabilise the club, with I presume the intention of miffing NC off and making him leave so they can return and feed at the trough once more like so many politicians.

 

In my opinion, the club is being run the most businesslike it has been in a very long time. On the pitch things are continuing to develop and when strengthening is needed money seems to be made available for new players. In the acadamy we appear to have a good group of young players coming through. The plans for investment for the improvement of the acadamy having been resubmitted because the first weren't ambitious enough. NC has stated that we are financial stable, Markus' family are in full support of what is happening here, and money is available. The crowds are at there highest in a while, and there is a feeling of expectation arouind that we as a club are going upwards.

Do I agree with everything that NC has done. No. However we all make mistakes, I know I have made some whoopers.

 

So if a debt free club, with good quality players, no longer forced to sell players, premiership quality ground, widely admired acadamy, with a business savvy chairman who has ambitions to get us into the Champions League, with the financial backing to fulfill that dream. If this is not good enough for you I just dont know what would.

[Colinjb]

A very good post. Totally agree with the sentiment.

[um pahars]

Under the old regime all hosts of people were making nice livings off the club, through 'advisory' roles or 'ambassadors' or from gifts of shares etc.

 

I strugggle to get my head around who these were.

 

Who were these "all hosts of people" and what "nice livings" were they making off the Club??

[rocknrollman no2]

Well thought out post and i agree with you.

[landford.saint]

Mrs LS has just made this observation to me I thought I'd share it with you. NC has no other business interests. Unlike many chairpersons (is that the new pc term) NC is not encumbered by other things. He hasn't come into this because his main business was successful so he thought he could indulge his ego by buying a football club as some sort of status symbol. He doesn't have to bring his mates or business partners/golf/club buddies. SFC is his business, it has his undivided attention.

[Saint Samuel]

Good post, its great to see the club ran in a business like manner, its what was needed after years of mismanagement. None of us like to see Cortese falling out with a few club legends, but if achieves the goal of making Southampton a top flight club whilst remaining debt free then I hope they can see past his "control freak" way of doing things.

[capitalsaint]

A fantastic post! There are too many morons on this forum who are used to hating the chairman. Cortese hasn't done anything bad that even remotely compares to the huge amount of good, sadly not everybody has the brain cells to see that.

[gandalf]

I like what you have written and agree with other posters that you have given an excellent balanced view.

[Rebel]

I strugggle to get my head around who these were.

 

Who were these "all hosts of people" and what "nice livings" were they making off the Club??

 

Supposedly Lawrie Mac was being paid £75,000 to host an ex-players table in the hospitality suite and head the Ambassadors club - and I imagine Mike Osman was being paid a good amount to be a match day host or announcer or whatever it was.

 

I imagine the ex-players working for Saints FM were also very well paid - Mark Dennis etc

 

And from what I've heard Jim Hone, Lee Hoos, Andy Oldknow and Paul Jones were all on very good salaries for directors of a business with only a c.£15 million p.a. turnover.

 

Before that Lowe and Cowan were very well paid as CEO and Joint MD - not to mention the bonuses, expenses and dividends they and the non-execs (and larger shareholders) all shared - all supposedly well above average for the size of the business.

 

Ken Dulieu also got paid to be Chairman - when he wasn't going to be under Wilde's mainfesto

 

As I understood it - it was unusual for non-executive directors to be paid at a football club - but ours supposedly were.

 

Just some examples - I expect there are more! I'll give you a lot of it is hearsay - but as our players wage bill was a lot less than our turnover for most of Lowe's tenure the money went somewhere - and under Hone and Co it just continued but with different faces

 

Just look at Everton's accounts - released today - to see how all the money that flows into football clubs from TV and ticket sales flows out to the players - a club of Everton's scale shouldn't be running at a loss - but it is - and the reason is all those agents fees and player wages that are far too high

 

Tickets prices are probaby 2 or 3 times what they should be in the top flight as it is

[Roger]

Supposedly Lawrie Mac was being paid £75,000 to host an ex-players table in the hospitality suite and head the Ambassadors club - and I imagine Mike Osman was being paid a good amount to be a match day host or announcer or whatever it was.

 

I imagine the ex-players working for Saints FM were also very well paid - Mark Dennis etc

 

And from what I've heard Jim Hone, Lee Hoos, Andy Oldknow and Paul Jones were all on very good salaries for directors of a business with only a c.£15 million p.a. turnover.

 

Before that Lowe and Cowan were very well paid as CEO and Joint MD - not to mention the bonuses, expenses and dividends they and the non-execs (and larger shareholders) all shared - all supposedly well above average for the size of the business.

 

Ken Dulieu also got paid to be Chairman - when he wasn't going to be under Wilde's mainfesto

 

As I understood it - it was unusual for non-executive directors to be paid at a football club - but ours supposedly were.

 

Just some examples - I expect there are more! I'll give you a lot of it is hearsay - but as our players wage bill was a lot less than our turnover for most of Lowe's tenure the money went somewhere - and under Hone and Co it just continued but with different faces

 

Just look at Everton's accounts - released today - to see how all the money that flows into football clubs from TV and ticket sales flows out to the players - a club of Everton's scale shouldn't be running at a loss - but it is - and the reason is all those agents fees and player wages that are far too high

 

Tickets prices are probaby 2 or 3 times what they should be in the top flight as it is

 

Lowe etc and ken d jim hone I agree. Leon crouch had nothing but good in him imo. I think he showed that through his actions.

[Thedelldays]

This whole cotese debate needs not to happen.

 

Just another chapter in the fans lust for scandal at the club... Guess we are conditioned to it I guess

[um pahars]

Supposedly Lawrie Mac was being paid £75,000 to host an ex-players table in the hospitality suite and head the Ambassadors club - and I imagine Mike Osman was being paid a good amount to be a match day host or announcer or whatever it was.

 

I imagine the ex-players working for Saints FM were also very well paid - Mark Dennis etc

 

And from what I've heard Jim Hone, Lee Hoos, Andy Oldknow and Paul Jones were all on very good salaries for directors of a business with only a c.£15 million p.a. turnover.

 

Before that Lowe and Cowan were very well paid as CEO and Joint MD - not to mention the bonuses, expenses and dividends they and the non-execs (and larger shareholders) all shared - all supposedly well above average for the size of the business.

 

Ken Dulieu also got paid to be Chairman - when he wasn't going to be under Wilde's mainfesto

 

As I understood it - it was unusual for non-executive directors to be paid at a football club - but ours supposedly were.

 

Just some examples - I expect there are more! I'll give you a lot of it is hearsay - but as our players wage bill was a lot less than our turnover for most of Lowe's tenure the money went somewhere - and under Hone and Co it just continued but with different faces

 

Just look at Everton's accounts - released today - to see how all the money that flows into football clubs from TV and ticket sales flows out to the players - a club of Everton's scale shouldn't be running at a loss - but it is - and the reason is all those agents fees and player wages that are far too high

 

Tickets prices are probaby 2 or 3 times what they should be in the top flight as it is

 

I'm aware of all of this, but when Cortese took over I would have thought that about 99% of those you mentioned had already "got the bus out of the stadium". I've just struggled to appreciate who these spongers were, how much they were taking from the Club etc etc etc.

 

It's been mentioned a few times (and brought up again on this thread), but no one has been ableto clarify just who this claim was aimed at.

[trousers]

As it was a PLC in 'those days', won't the publicly available accounts hold the answer to the "where did all the money go?" question....?

[Secret Site Agent]

As part of my occasional senile ramblings, I thought it was time again to write down my incoherent thoughts on my club.

I know no one in the club, its management staff etc. and only one ex-player whom I speak to once in a while when he drops into my place of work. So basically I am just like the majority of you guys and galls out there.

 

The way I see things are that the club prior to July 2009 and Markus' takeover, was a completey different company to the one now. In the pre-amble to the recent Man Utd match WGS when talking about Saints said he couldn't figure out where all the money had gone, condidering that to his knowledge all the players wages were reduced by 50% upon relegation. This line of thougtht about were all the clubs transfer/ticket etc. money had gone was debated by some on here (if my fading memeory serves me right). When ML and his trusted man NC saved the club I recall them saying how lacking and disorganised the management structure had been. There was I believe at this time many examples of the 'old boy network' and cronyism with people using the club as a bit of a cash cow. I remember stories on this forum and peoples incredulous reaction about how much Lawrie Mac. was reputed to be being paid for an 'ambassador' role.

NC has a experienced history in banking and on his arrival at the club, I recall him saying how much work was needed to get basic business practices re-established at the club. He has stated more than once that he wants the club to be self-supporting. To this end he has not just brought in the people he believes are best for the job in whatever part of the business they are required, but he has also disposed of the deadwood and unproductive areas and personel.

Under the old regime all hosts of people were making nice livings off the club, through 'advisory' roles or 'ambassadors' or from gifts of shares etc. When these people were cast adrift by NC most have faded away into the distance and keep their own thoughts to themselves. A few however appear bitter and would seem to be making a continued attack on NC personnally. Stirring up all sorts of rubbish trying to destabilise the club, with I presume the intention of miffing NC off and making him leave so they can return and feed at the trough once more like so many politicians.

 

In my opinion, the club is being run the most businesslike it has been in a very long time. On the pitch things are continuing to develop and when strengthening is needed money seems to be made available for new players. In the acadamy we appear to have a good group of young players coming through. The plans for investment for the improvement of the acadamy having been resubmitted because the first weren't ambitious enough. NC has stated that we are financial stable, Markus' family are in full support of what is happening here, and money is available. The crowds are at there highest in a while, and there is a feeling of expectation arouind that we as a club are going upwards.

Do I agree with everything that NC has done. No. However we all make mistakes, I know I have made some whoopers.

 

So if a debt free club, with good quality players, no longer forced to sell players, premiership quality ground, widely admired acadamy, with a business savvy chairman who has ambitions to get us into the Champions League, with the financial backing to fulfill that dream. If this is not good enough for you I just dont know what would.

 

Wow. You could have read my mind or copied my last in-depth post.

 

I agree fully with everything said here. Too many people with their noses out of joint looking to milk the club again, and a man and a team structure which is more business like and professional at all levels rather than the one originally here, where the money just disappeared.

 

I also like my analogy of the workers who no longer work for the company, but still come around and hang around the workplace.

[manji]

Supposedly Lawrie Mac was being paid £75,000 to host an ex-players table in the hospitality suite and head the Ambassadors club - and I imagine Mike Osman was being paid a good amount to be a match day host or announcer or whatever it was.

 

I imagine the ex-players working for Saints FM were also very well paid - Mark Dennis etc

Yeah I have heard they were all on considerable money and at a time when the club was in financial difficulty.Strangely enough these appear to be same the same "dark forces" sniping at the club.Not a coincidence I suspect.

[david in sweden]

A very good post. Totally agree with the sentiment.

 

yes I'd go along with that, too Landford Saint

I guess it just need some of the impatient types to learn a bit of patience.

[rallyboy]

a very good summary Landford, and that's why I think that despite some vocal objectors, most of the fanbase are on the bus - still respectful of legends of Saints past, but supportive of the man who will stop at nothing to create future Saints legends.

That spat is not a black and white argument, you don't have to take sides.

In Nicola we trust - and as an example, his decision to sack Pardew will be judged in May by the table, not by knee-jerk ranting on here.

 

I think he's made some mistakes but as I've said before, Cortese wants the club to succeed, and so do I.

[um pahars]

As it was a PLC in 'those days', won't the publicly available accounts hold the answer to the "where did all the money go?" question....?

 

Indeed they do, and despite some people talking rubbish and embellishing the truth (a trait often found on here) there was no trousering of money under lowe or any of the previous regimes.

 

The simple facts are that despite wage reductions introduced upon relegation, this was not enough to offset the massive drop in income following relegation. Wages were by far our single biggest cost, but generally we had a quasi Premiership cost base which outstripped our Championship income.

[um pahars]

I also like my analogy of the workers who no longer work for the company, but still come around and hang around the workplace.

 

As someone else pointed out, I have to say I find your analogy rather ridiculous and totally out of touch with what a football club is all about. It is more than a business or a workplace.

 

As my mate pointed out on Saturday, why would 1,500 hardy souls travel to watch a game on a Saturday evening when they could have watched it at home???

 

I have no problem with it being run like a business in the modern era, but a part of what makes a football club so special is the emotional link it has with its supporters and community. A club should be doing all it can to engender that link and turn it in to a benefit for both the supporters and the Club itself. IMHO a part of that should be a positive relationship between the club and its former "heroes/legends" (although I accept that relationship has to work both ways).

[Secret Site Agent]

Mrs LS has just made this observation to me I thought I'd share it with you. NC has no other business interests. Unlike many chairpersons (is that the new pc term) NC is not encumbered by other things. He hasn't come into this because his main business was successful so he thought he could indulge his ego by buying a football club as some sort of status symbol. He doesn't have to bring his mates or business partners/golf/club buddies. SFC is his business, it has his undivided attention.

 

Tell Mrs LS that Mrs SSA has gievn me permision to say, How right she is, and how come no one thought about that before. I bet she's related to Sian Massey?

 

Seriously though, it is a very valid point.

[Secret Site Agent]

As someone else pointed out, I have to say I find your analogy rather ridiculous and totally out of touch with what a football club is all about. It is more than a business or a workplace.

 

As my mate pointed out on Saturday, why would 1,500 hardy souls travel to watch a game on a Saturday evening when they could have watched it at home???

 

I have no problem with it being run like a business in the modern era, but a part of what makes a football club so special is the emotional link it has with its supporters and community. A club should be doing all it can to engender that link and turn it in to a benefit for both the supporters and the Club itself. IMHO a part of that should be a positive relationship between the club and its former "heroes/legends" (although I accept that relationship has to work both ways).

 

How do you know I was refering to them? I think Matty is a god and wish he was involved in the club, as I think we could only benefit from that, and Lawrie to some degree, but the rules changed when Liebherr bought the club. Remember that even though MLT thought he was doing a good think with Pinnacle, it could have been the death of the club. I think you'll agree that he was very naive here. And why do they have to keep running to the press? Isn't this disunity just fuelling the fire.