No young Saints in the U21 squad...

[david in sweden]

spells trouble for Stuart Pearce.

OK someone will say Alex was too young ( ?) ..maybe or that Adam was too old, but over age players are allowed - aren't they.

 

As it happened U21s lost to two late goals from the Czech Republic, with the winning goal coming from a certain.....Tomas Pekhart (!)...

 

Now... haven't I heard that name before somewhere ?

Edited 20 June, 2011 by david in sweden

[Window Cleaner]

Lallana isn't too old,Mancienne is older and so are a couple of others,Alex isn't too young, the trouble is that they have been playing 3rd division football down among the hackers and cloggers.This standard is judged to be too basic to be selected for a major football nation in a major tournament. Now the Czech 1st division probably isn't much better but for England it's a problem.

 

Fortunately for all our young players with international aspirations we're now in the NPC and the problem may just fade away,not

for Senior International selection though.

[Doctoroncall]

spells trouble for Stuart Pearce.

OK someone will say Alex was too young ( ?) ..maybe or that Adam was too old, but over age players are allowed - aren't they.

 

As it happened U21s lost to two late goals from the Czech Republic, with the winning goal coming from a certain.....Tomas Pekhart (!)...

 

Now... haven't I heard that name before somewhere ?

 

Which shows a couple of things; players progress at different rates and if the player is technically able he can reach a decent standard.

 

I'm sure when Tomas was with us he didn't really want to be or there was some other issue as he was pants for us but there were glimmers of ability.

[landford.saint]

AOC according to SP would have been picked but his injury came at just the wrong time In the season. AL got into the initial squad but failed to make the cut.

[david in sweden]

Pearce is poor.

 

Like his man city team they just didn't create enough.

He plays too many anonymous midfielders, Henderson was woeful.

But Sinclair, welbeck and sturridge up front? All good, but all far too similar. Needed a striker, and needed lallana. Too many fast, direct players and not enough with the creative talent to unlock teams.

Too often we moan about lack of technique and then ignore our most technical players.

 

 

Totally agree. Even when we give our inspirational players an England shirt, they are asked to play defensive midfield roles that cramp their creativity.

 

Glenn Hoddle (not my favourite as a manager) was a good example of this, but ironically after he became England manager he did the same to Le Tissier (as did his predecessor Venables), when MLT was by far and away the most exciting and talented goalscorer in the Premiership.

 

Nowadays I'm far more interested in club football than I am internationals, and the Prem.is still the best league in the World.

(Other "big " Euro lands ( Spain, Italy) play in Leagues that are a "two horse race" and sometimes only "one".

As in Scotland where decades of dreary football has rarely produced a team that can crack the monopoly of the " Old Firm".)

[pressingon]

[/b]

 

and the Prem.is still the best league in the World.

 

Never understood this train of thought-sure we have some of the word's best players thanks to Sky's mega bucks but in what way is it the best?

 

 

(Other "big " Euro lands ( Spain, Italy) play in Leagues that are a "two horse race" and sometimes only "one".

As in Scotland where decades of dreary football has rarely produced a team that can crack the monopoly of the " Old Firm".)

 

For the Old Firm read Man u & Chelsea!

In the 19 years of the premiership :

Man U have been won it 12 times, runners up 4 times

Chelsea won 4 titles runners up 4 times

Arsenal won 3 titles runners up 5 times

So mainly a 2 horse, occasionally a 3. Not that different to the rest of Europe

[Saint]

What about Blackburn?

[Matthew Le God]

Adam was too old, but over age players are allowed - aren't they.

 

Adam Lallana wouldn't have been an "overage plater". He was young enough to play in the Euro's. If you are under 21 when the qualifying campaign starts, you can play in the finals, even if you are 22 or 23.

 

You are getting confused with the Olympic football competition where it is an under 23 competition and you can have 3 overaged players (hence why David Beckham has volunteered himself to play).

[RedAndWhite91]

At times last night England were playing some decent football, but the hoof ball creeped in and I couldn't help but feel they needed a creative player like Lallana, even if he was to come on late just to shake things up a bit.

[toofarnorth]

Agree with the comment about all too similar up front. Needed an Andy Carrol type player to give an extra dimension.

[Deano6]

What about Blackburn?

 

1992–93 4th

1993–94 2nd

1994–95 1st

1995–96 7th

1996–97 13th

1997–98 6th

1998–99 19th [Relegated]

1999–00–––––––––

2000–01–––––––––

2001–02 10th

2002–03 6th

2003–04 15th

2004–05 15th

2005–06 6th

2006–07 10th

2007–08 7th

2008–09 15th

2009–10 10th

2010–11 15th

[Thedelldays]

At times last night England were playing some decent football, but the hoof ball creeped in and I couldn't help but feel they needed a creative player like Lallana, even if he was to come on late just to shake things up a bit.

lallana read cleverly, lansbury, sturridge was very good last night..no way is he a lone striker..he created enough and caused no end of problems

[THEVMAN]

Pearce is poor.

 

Like his man city team they just didn't create enough.

 

He plays too many anonymous midfielders, Henderson was woeful.

 

But Sinclair, welbeck and sturridge up front? All good, but all far too similar. Needed a striker, and needed lallana. Too many fast, direct players and not enough with the creative talent to unlock teams. Too often we moan about lack of technique and then ignore our most technical players.

Totally agree we always go for the safe options thus ending up with the same old long ball hit and hope tactics and negative play ,the England set up has been like this for years,if your face fits and all that plus Pearce had the usual yes man sitting beside him in Wigley.

[Leicestersaint]

Pearce strikes me as very ordinary and lacking in flair - typical England manager.

[EBS1980]

It's ok, after the poor showing at the Euro's, the FA are going to replace him....

 

 

...oh no thats right, they are going to extend his contract! d'oh!

[EBS1980]

Get Paul Scholes in as manager, he might not be able to teach them to tackle, but he'd get them playing football the right way.

[mancsaint]

Comparing England to the Spaniards, crap and caviar, dull and exciting, we had a load of dross out there and got what we deserved, nothing.

[david in sweden]

Adam Lallana wouldn't have been an "overage plater". He was young enough to play in the Euro's. If you are under 21 when the qualifying campaign starts, you can play in the finals, even if you are 22 or 23.

 

You are getting confused with the Olympic football competition where it is an under 23 competition and you can have 3 overaged players (hence why David Beckham has volunteered himself to play).

 

thanks for the update....don't some rules really scr*w the game ?

[LostBoys]

Some of those selected to play in the games were shocking. Wellbeck had a decent season for Sunderland but could not hit a barn door - Mancienne was out of his depth as well as position and the guy playing in Lallanas position was just totally overawed and just passed backwards all the time unfortunately generally breaking up any forward movement just dreadful. The defence looked good that is all. Lallana and AOC could have done much better than those selected - bias or not.

[david in sweden]

Some of those selected to play in the games were shocking. Wellbeck had a decent season for Sunderland but could not hit a barn door - Mancienne was out of his depth as well as position and the guy playing in Lallanas position was just totally overawed and just passed backwards all the time unfortunately generally breaking up any forward movement just dreadful. The defence looked good that is all. Lallana and AOC could have done much better than those selected - bias or not.

 

Interesting to read comment from Tomas Pekhart (former Saints loan from Spurs) who scored the Czechs late winner

he said that he thought that England had too many individual performers who wanted to show off their talents and didn't play well as a team. The defence wasn't criticised but obviously England had some strikers /midfielders with an ego problem, and that led to their downfall.

[Window Cleaner]

I see many assertions here that our boys would have done so much better. You can't possibly know that really. Ox and Lallana have no real experience outside of the 3rd tier of English football, true Lallana played about 35 CCC games for us but he was often pretty

hopeless and scored only 1 league goal in our relegation season. Next season when they start to encounter some relatively decent opposition we'll be able to see whether they have the class we all think they do.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Unless the FA start to take stock of the English game and have a root and branch clear-out of all the old book characters, we will see the England football team suffer a similar fate to English tennis - mediocrity at best. Just look at make-up of the England senior 1st team - still loaded with the same players that have lost time and time again. Players that play alongside a mish-mash of foreign players in the Prem - except Spanish players, because by contrast most of the best Spanish players play in the Spanish leagues. So when the England team comes together the overall level of competency drops significantly. Sort it!

[OVER THE HILL]

Every time I've seen a Spanish League game there seems to be as many south american players as spanish so I'm sure the mixture of nationalities is not the problem.I agree that Pearce is very much old school and clueless about the type of football required in internationals.

[Itchen_block4]

Every time I've seen a Spanish League game there seems to be as many south american players as spanish so I'm sure the mixture of nationalities is not the problem.I agree that Pearce is very much old school and clueless about the type of football required in internationals.

 

Interesting that. The Spanish are very good at passing and moving, but the South Americans are still the masters of creative flair. Put the two together and it produces some great stuff. The Spanish international side win matches through persistence and defending well, but I can't remember them ever seriously thrashing anyone half decent like Barcelona can.

 

I think Lallana should have been used in the Norway friendly, so Pearce knew what he was about in a game that didn't matter before heading off to the Championships. The u21s used him when he played in the Championship under Poortvliet and he's improved a lot since then. Its pretty typical of the FA's attitude towards the lower leagues that he never even got a chane to prove himself.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Interesting to read comment from Tomas Pekhart (former Saints loan from Spurs) who scored the Czechs late winner

he said that he thought that England had too many individual performers who wanted to show off their talents and didn't play well as a team. The defence wasn't criticised but obviously England had some strikers /midfielders with an ego problem, and that led to their downfall.

 

I didn't see this game, but to me England's perennial problem is players just are not as comfortable with the ball at their feet as even minor nations' players are. Despite often greater fitness and a desire to play at a highish tempo all the time, we want to get rid of the ball as soon as possible, and we dread having an opponent come close. Other nations' players, at whatever level they are at, receive the ball and are not desperate to pass it straight away, or immediately run with it away from an opponent, or play some long crappy 'into space' pass. In fact they deliberately hold on to it to suck in one or more opponents, and are happy to hold on to it and allow time for teammates to move around, and wait for options.

 

I'm not sure it really is England players trying to show off their skills, its more that they all seem to think they need to make a long killer pass or run with the ball away from an opponent as soon and as quickly as possible. That often looks like being anxious to impress, though in reality it just plain anxiety at having the ball.

 

And to me that's exactly why Le Tiss would have been good at international level, had our managers understood the difference between English club football and the way in which international football is played, he had the skill and confidence to hold on to it and wait for an opportunity.

Edited 24 June, 2011 by hughieslastminutegoal

[david in sweden]

I didn't see this game, but to me England's perennial problem is players just are not as comfortable with the ball at their feet as even minor nations' players are. Despite often greater fitness and a desire to play at a highish tempo all the time, we want to get rid of the ball as soon as possible, and we dread having an opponent come close. Other nations' players, at whatever level they are at, receive the ball and are not desperate to pass it straight away, or immediately run with it away from an opponent, or play some long crappy 'into space' pass. In fact they deliberately hold on to it to suck in one or more opponents, and are happy to hold on to it and allow time for teammates to move around, and wait for options.

 

I'm not sure it really is England players trying to show off their skills, its more that they all seem to think they need to make a long killer pass or run with the ball away from an opponent as soon and as quickly as possible. That often looks like being anxious to impress, though in reality it just plain anxiety at having the ball.

 

And to me that's exactly why Le Tiss would have been good at international level, had our managers understood the difference between English club football and the way in which international football is played, he had the skill and confidence to hold on to it and wait for an opportunity.

 

 

I felt a bit peeved by Pekhart's comments, but he does have an inside knowledge of the Englsih game having spent a couple of seasons with Spurs youth sides. The Czechs play a lot of tight team football, whereas many of the young talent we have tend to " show off " a lot, rather than play as a unit. Perhaps the trouble with those Prem. clubs who pay teenagers £20K a week !