Rupert Lowe - we've been here before

[Mole]

GRAYS DEL OF A GO AT LOWE

 

By CHARLIE WYETT

 

Published: 27 Oct 2004

 

SOUTHAMPTON chairman Rupert Lowe has been plunged into a fresh crisis by a stinging attack from Stuart Gray.

The former Saints boss has spoken out for the first time since his sudden departure three years ago.

 

Southampton, under current coach Steve Wigley, are in the Premiership drop zone and have a potentially embarrassing League Cup clash against lowly Colchester tonight.

 

But when Lowe declared Wigley must be given a chance, Gray decided to hit out.

 

Gray, 43, rapped: “Where was my chance? When he gave me the job he told me I was the right person. But I was only given eight games.

 

“When Lowe said I was to lose my job, he wanted a statement put out that it was by mutual consent.

 

“But I wanted to stay so there was no way I’d agree to that.”

 

Gray is also furious he was given the blame for record £3.5million signing Agustin Delgado. The striker made only two Premiership starts while picking up £2m in wages.

 

Gray added: “Lowe showed me a video of Delgado. I didn’t want him but the chairman was adamant. It cost me my job.”

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article173420.ece

 

 

LOWE HITS BACK AT GRAY

Thursday 28 Oct 2004

 

Southampton chairman Rupert Lowe reacted angrily to former Saints manager Stuart Gray's accusation that he was sacked because he refused to be a 'yes man'.

 

Gray was dismissed, together with assistant manager Mick Wadsworth, in October 2001 just eight games after being handed the job on a permanent basis.

 

In a newspaper interview earlier this week Gray accused Lowe of signing Agustin Delgado against his wishes after he'd asked the club to bid for Diego Forlan and also claimed the club had asked him to say his departure was by mutual consent.

 

Play Multiplayer Golf Just one of several amazing sports games available to play free or for cash prizes. Win over £15,000 now... A furious Lowe told the club's official website: "There has never been any suggestion that Stuart Gray left by mutual consent.

 

"He was sacked and he is the only manager that I have fired.

 

"We have never tried to hide the fact that Stuart Gray did not work out. Andrew Cowen and I called in Stuart and Mick Wadsworth and we paid a lot of money to ease the pain of being sacked.

 

"As far as the Delgado claims are concerned, I do not recall Stuart saying he wanted Diego Forlan, but in any case he went for £7million which was out of our price range.

 

"At the time the transfer market was hugely inflated and English strikers were moving for £10-14million so we were forced to look overseas.

 

"Terry Cooper travelled to Bolivia and saw Delgado destroy them. He also outscored Batistuta and Crespo in the World Cup qualifying groups to fire Ecuador to their first ever finals and so we signed him and Stuart sanctioned it."

 

Southampton have indicated the reason Gray's reign was not a success was because of his choice of Wadsworth as assistant manager, when the club's directors wanted to appoint Ray Harford.

 

http://uk.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTf2nKZQtJyH8A5BJWBQx./SIG=134pl8416/EXP=1225570122/**http%3A//www.4thegame.com/club/sfc/news/160131/LOWE%2BHITS%2BBACK%2BAT%2BGRAY.html

[SaintRobbie]

I believe Stuart Gray.

[Mr X]

I almost forgot about gray, Lowe's appointed so many disasters over the years the only one he ever got right was wee gordon strachan

[Scudamore]

Breaking news huh?

[benjii]

When you read that it just highlights Lowe's wafer-thin knowledge of football IMO.

 

Delgado outscored Batigol and Crespo, therefore we signed him. That's out of the "Saints beat x and x beat y therefore Saints are better than y" school of playground arguments.

[70's Mike]

I believe Stuart Gray.

 

As do I

[rocknrollman no2]

As do I

Add me to that list.

[Bon Call Night]

I almost forgot about gray, Lowe's appointed so many disasters over the years the only one he ever got right was wee gordon strachan

 

And many questioned his appointment of Strachan, many thought that his appointment of Redknapp and then Burley were exceptional appointments but both turned out sour in the longer term.

 

I can count on one hand successes outside of the top four the PL where a manager has been a success and lasted for longer than 2 years. In fact Bolton is the only one I can think of. Villa are moving in that direction and Everton have had an on/off affair with Moyes.

 

Other than that you can probably say watford and Reading and that is about it.

 

For me the Gray appointment was almost acceptable in that he had proved himself at assistant over the years at a number of clubs and probably deserved a chance, his biggest error for me was having seen that such progression does not work he appointed Wigley who suffered from the same issues as Gray. Dave Jones did OK and had some goos times as well as bad in a small club in a big league, Hoddle was successful, as was Strachan, I would love to know the whole Sturrock story other than the egg sandwich and players problem rumours that are unsubstantiated and merely hear say AFAIC.

 

So on the whole I think there has been a reasonable hit rate on his managerial appointments unfortunately there have been too many.

 

Other than Gray, Wigley and Sturrock who really did not have a decent crack of the whip all of his other appointments have had some reasonable success at some stage. The only one who has failed is the self proclaimed miracle worker saggy chops!!

 

Or am I missing the point? Is this just another have a pop at Lowe thread? :-?

[Mole]

When you read that it just highlights Lowe's wafer-thin knowledge of football IMO.

 

Perhaps you're being a little bit unfair:

 

"They still say that I went to a football match for the first time six months before I joined Southampton," says Lowe. "Incorrect. I used to go with friends regularly to watch Ipswich Town, although as a boy I supported West Ham. I played football at the Dragon School in Oxford. And I remember being very keen on my Soccer Stars album. When you bought stuff from the school tuck shop you got the stickers."

[70's Mike]

I personally do not think Stuart Gray (sorry Stu) or Steve Wigley were up to the jobs , but like all of us if offered promotion more money etc they took it.

Rupert as an astute employer should have realised this especially with Wigley because not only did it cost us money in compensation but we lost two really good coaches , many forget Wigley and Gray were attactively involved with the Academy when we were producing really good players

[Long Shot]

I think it was around the time Gray was appointed that Lowe suddenly thought he could fulfill a DoF role.

[Bon Call Night]

I believe Stuart Gray.

 

As do I

 

Add me to that list.

 

 

Why? Because it suited your anti Lowe agenda? Because if it was wrong there is one less thing to criticise the man for.

 

For me the whole thread is typical of the small minded, vocal minority who would rather exercise their degree in hindsight on what was good and what was not rather than be constructive and ask who at the time he could have appointed.

 

Let's make it easier - who should have replaced Burley? Or even better who should have replaced Redknapp? Try thinking about who was available at the time.

 

This rubbish is typical of the lead weights that are burdening this club and preventing a positive environment that would help the club move forward.

[70's Mike]

So at the time Gray and Wigley were the only two options ?

[Mole]

This rubbish is typical of the lead weights that are burdening this club and preventing a positive environment that would help the club move forward.

 

Lowe and Wilde are the Lead Weights in all of this, not the fans.

[Mr X]

you can bet your life if lowe does eventually hit the panic button and get rid of his dutch puppet it will be announced as a "mutual agreement";) rather than a sacking

[Bon Call Night]

I personally do not think Stuart Gray (sorry Stu) or Steve Wigley were up to the jobs , but like all of us if offered promotion more money etc they took it.

Rupert as an astute employer should have realised this especially with Wigley because not only did it cost us money in compensation but we lost two really good coaches , many forget Wigley and Gray were attactively involved with the Academy when we were producing really good players

 

So we'll forget about Georges Prost then?

 

I actually agree with regarding their ability but who could know that at the time? I think Wigley was a case of repeating a mistake, and a major one, something that is inexcusable in business but does happen.

 

Gray may have deserved his chance and I don't know what advice was asked for, given or taken? So can not really say.

 

However as he had worked at several clubs as assistant who's tp say that his CV was not decent enough to be given a shot. He knew the players, he knew the club structure, he knew the coaching staff and no doubt had good relationships with all of them. Put yourself in his position, you had been at a company for 5 years, done a pretty good job, and a chance for promotion came up. You have all the qualifications required, plus you know all the company procedures and have the respect of the staff you work with. Would you not apply for the chance of promotion?

 

And on the otherside as the employer - why would you not give that person a chance?

 

It is easy to be clever with hindsight but did you have any more or any less reservations about his appointment than you did about Strachan's?

[Beckster Von Doodle]

So at the time Gray and Wigley were the only two options ?

 

Probably not but who would you have appointed at that time?

[Mowgli]

Is this life on Mars?

[The Farmer]

Play Multiplayer Golf Just one of several amazing sports games available to play free or for cash prizes. Win over £15,000 now...

 

I also heard a rumour Lowe is also chairman of a Golf Simulation company getting kick backs for every subliminal purchase as well.

[70's Mike]

So we'll forget about Georges Prost then?

 

I actually agree with regarding their ability but who could know that at the time? I think Wigley was a case of repeating a mistake, and a major one, something that is inexcusable in business but does happen.

 

Gray may have deserved his chance and I don't know what advice was asked for, given or taken? So can not really say.

 

However as he had worked at several clubs as assistant who's tp say that his CV was not decent enough to be given a shot. He knew the players, he knew the club structure, he knew the coaching staff and no doubt had good relationships with all of them. Put yourself in his position, you had been at a company for 5 years, done a pretty good job, and a chance for promotion came up. You have all the qualifications required, plus you know all the company procedures and have the respect of the staff you work with. Would you not apply for the chance of promotion?

 

And on the otherside as the employer - why would you not give that person a chance?

 

It is easy to be clever with hindsight but did you have any more or any less reservations about his appointment than you did about Strachan's?

 

I think George Prost came along after Stuart Gray.

 

I knew Stuart personally, and told him of my reservations at the time, imo he was to nice a guy to ever be really successful at football management in the top level.

[Mole]

So we'll forget about Georges Prost then?

 

I actually agree with regarding their ability but who could know that at the time? I think Wigley was a case of repeating a mistake, and a major one, something that is inexcusable in business but does happen.

 

Gray may have deserved his chance and I don't know what advice was asked for, given or taken? So can not really say.

 

However as he had worked at several clubs as assistant who's tp say that his CV was not decent enough to be given a shot. He knew the players, he knew the club structure, he knew the coaching staff and no doubt had good relationships with all of them. Put yourself in his position, you had been at a company for 5 years, done a pretty good job, and a chance for promotion came up. You have all the qualifications required, plus you know all the company procedures and have the respect of the staff you work with. Would you not apply for the chance of promotion?

 

And on the otherside as the employer - why would you not give that person a chance?

 

It is easy to be clever with hindsight but did you have any more or any less reservations about his appointment than you did about Strachan's?

 

Perhaps it was Stuart Grays CV that attracted Lowe. Gray had alays been a number 2 and maybe Lowe thought he'd be the subservient type who would allow Lowe to be more "hands on".

[saintwarwick]

And many questioned his appointment of Strachan, many thought that his appointment of Redknapp and then Burley were exceptional appointments but both turned out sour in the longer term.

 

I can count on one hand successes outside of the top four the PL where a manager has been a success and lasted for longer than 2 years. In fact Bolton is the only one I can think of. Villa are moving in that direction and Everton have had an on/off affair with Moyes.

 

Other than that you can probably say watford and Reading and that is about it.

 

For me the Gray appointment was almost acceptable in that he had proved himself at assistant over the years at a number of clubs and probably deserved a chance, his biggest error for me was having seen that such progression does not work he appointed Wigley who suffered from the same issues as Gray. Dave Jones did OK and had some goos times as well as bad in a small club in a big league, Hoddle was successful, as was Strachan, I would love to know the whole Sturrock story other than the egg sandwich and players problem rumours that are unsubstantiated and merely hear say AFAIC.

 

So on the whole I think there has been a reasonable hit rate on his managerial appointments unfortunately there have been too many.

 

Other than Gray, Wigley and Sturrock who really did not have a decent crack of the whip all of his other appointments have had some reasonable success at some stage. The only one who has failed is the self proclaimed miracle worker saggy chops!!

 

Or am I missing the point? Is this just another have a pop at Lowe thread? :-?

 

 

I think so, for a small club Strachen, Hoddle and Jones did well and Sturrock was not allowed to prove himself. I thought Gray deserved his chance and was not a mistake at the time. Souness was also a good choice but it turned out the two egos could not work together and Redknapp was a good choice for the fans going by the "Harry and Jim, Red and White" ringing out very loud at every home game. For me the biggest mistake was Wigley but surely most chairman make managerial mistakes, Crouch got it wrong on his first choice (Dodd and Gorman) but he is seen as a martyr to some!!

[70's Mike]

Probably not but who would you have appointed at that time?

 

hope there is someone with a better memory than mine because i cannot think who was available at the time, i do know we were a highly respected premiership club at the time of both appointments so feel sure there were people with the level of experience to fill the jobs.

 

I always sort of understood Stuart's appointment but never Wigleys

[saintwarwick]

you can bet your life if lowe does eventually hit the panic button and get rid of his dutch puppet it will be announced as a "mutual agreement" rather than a sacking

 

As does a lot of managerial 'removals'

[Beckster Von Doodle]

Lowe and Wilde are the Lead Weights in all of this, not the fans.

 

How do you work that out? Because you don't like them?

 

All they are doing is trying to fix the financial issues created by our attempts to get of the CCC.

 

But Lowe got us relagated you no doubt will shout - and it had nothing to do with an apethetic manager, and apathetic players?

 

What has happened to us happened to Charlton a couple of years ago, Birmingham last year, Sunderland a couple of years ago, and will probably happen to one of the 'established' clubs this year if Hull carry on going as they are.

 

Continually looking back and being clever after the event is helping us move forward. Doom and gloom from supporters is not what is needed with a fragile young squad, a bit of blind optimism and support on the terraces would be better.

 

Sorry this is Bon Call Night using my partners login.

[70's Mike]

How do you work that out? Because you don't like them?

 

All they are doing is trying to fix the financial issues created by our attempts to get of the CCC.

 

But Lowe got us relagated you no doubt will shout - and it had nothing to do with an apethetic manager, and apathetic players?

 

What has happened to us happened to Charlton a couple of years ago, Birmingham last year, Sunderland a couple of years ago, and will probably happen to one of the 'established' clubs this year if Hull carry on going as they are.

 

Continually looking back and being clever after the event is helping us move forward. Doom and gloom from supporters is not what is needed with a fragile young squad, a bit of blind optimism and support on the terraces would be better.

 

Sorry this is Bon Call Night using my partners login.

 

14000 of us keep showing blind optimism and giving total support from the terraces, up to 1000 attend away games .

At the moment the fans that are attending games should be applauded not knocked

[Mole]

Sorry this is Bon Call Night using my partners login.

 

Pay your fiver you tight git.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

hope there is someone with a better memory than mine because i cannot think who was available at the time, i do know we were a highly respected premiership club at the time of both appointments so feel sure there were people with the level of experience to fill the jobs.

 

I always sort of understood Stuart's appointment but never Wigleys

 

Well in this we are agreed.

 

Didn't Gray takeover from Hoddle? And therefore the manager when we moved to St Marys?

 

I thin the likes of George Graham were muted by a few but I cannot remember either. But I remember thinking we must be able to get someone better than Strachan when he was appointed and thinking that Redknapp was the best appointment we had made since Hoddle. I am sure many thought the same at the time.

 

I think Wigley who had alledged refused the job when Sturrock was appointed, felt that having been offered it a second time was unable to do so again. This was a huge error IMO. But see above, many were wrong with Strachan and Redknapp just because I was proved right, as were may others, doesn't make it any better.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

Pay your fiver you tight git.

 

If I had it I would - she looks after the bank account!!!

[saintwarwick]

So we'll forget about Georges Prost then?

 

I actually agree with regarding their ability but who could know that at the time? I think Wigley was a case of repeating a mistake, and a major one, something that is inexcusable in business but does happen.

 

Gray may have deserved his chance and I don't know what advice was asked for, given or taken? So can not really say.

 

However as he had worked at several clubs as assistant who's tp say that his CV was not decent enough to be given a shot. He knew the players, he knew the club structure, he knew the coaching staff and no doubt had good relationships with all of them. Put yourself in his position, you had been at a company for 5 years, done a pretty good job, and a chance for promotion came up. You have all the qualifications required, plus you know all the company procedures and have the respect of the staff you work with. Would you not apply for the chance of promotion?

 

And on the otherside as the employer - why would you not give that person a chance?

 

It is easy to be clever with hindsight but did you have any more or any less reservations about his appointment than you did about Strachan's?

 

Yes that marvelous thing hindsight, we all remember what a great job Strachan did for us but you don't hear fans bemoaning the fact that his only other managerial post he was involved in was relegation from the premier league. Wise choice or crackpot decision at the time of appointment?

[Beckster Von Doodle]

14000 of us keep showing blind optimism and giving total support from the terraces, up to 1000 attend away games .

At the moment the fans that are attending games should be applauded not knocked

 

It is the missing 14,000 that I am knocking, and those in the 14,000 who boo and moan for 90 minutes. Yes they have paid their money and can do what they like by right, but it doesn't help the kids does it?

 

And the atmosphere on the message boards and in the echo etc is like someone who has just lost a close family member but puts on a brave face in company. The pain is there for all to see and no smile on match day can hide it.

[saintwarwick]

If I had it I would - she looks after the bank account!!!

 

Speak to her nicely and point out it is only a fiver and you will forgo two pints when you next go out

[Mole]

But I remember thinking we must be able to get someone better than Strachan when he was appointed and thinking that Redknapp was the best appointment we had made since Hoddle. I am sure many thought the same at the time.

 

I understand i'm in a minority on the Redknapp issue, but don't give a ****. He was a good manager and he is a good manager. He inheritted a totally demoralised team running out of games. I don't blame him for our relegation.

 

Furthermore if he'd been backed by Lowe with more than £90k and hadn't been undermined with the removal of Jim Smith and appointment of SCW he would have got us up in season 1 in the CCC IMO.

[John B]

I understand i'm in a minority on the Redknapp issue, but don't give a ****. He was a good manager and he is a good manager. He inheritted a totally demoralised team running out of games. I don't blame him for our relegation.

 

Furthermore if he'd been backed by Lowe with more than £90k and hadn't been undermined with the removal of Jim Smith and appointment of SCW he would have got us up in season 1 in the CCC IMO.

 

I agree Redknapp has proved to be a good manager but he was not good at SFC some of his tactics were niave.

 

However that is in the past we should now get behind JP and look to the future.

 

The young team will improve and possibly with some luck which appears to be missing could stay up like teams of the 1990s at the Dell

Edited 31 October, 2008 by John B

[Beckster Von Doodle]

I understand i'm in a minority on the Redknapp issue, but don't give a ****. He was a good manager and he is a good manager. He inheritted a totally demoralised team running out of games. I don't blame him for our relegation.

 

Furthermore if he'd been backed by Lowe with more than £90k and hadn't been undermined with the removal of Jim Smith and appointment of SCW he would have got us up in season 1 in the CCC IMO.

 

I think there is a lot of urban myths in this one.

 

He arrived before Christmas and had plenty of games left, the team may have been demoralised but he seems to have turned it around at Spurs OK, and he had money which he invested in the January window in Bernard, Jamie, Camara, Davenport and Quashie. Two were on loan but the loan from Wolves via Celtic must have cost us a fair penny.

 

As for the lack of funds on relegation didn't he have a £1.8m bid for Clinton Morrison turned down? So I am guessing he had the money available but did not spend it.

 

His whole attitude did not help with the players attitudes he was negative and always talked us down in the press.

 

Yes he has proved himself a decent manager over the years, and I suspect he will unfortunately be successful at Spurs, but he has to take his share of the blame along woth the players, and the boardroom. SHARE being the operative word.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

Speak to her nicely and point out it is only a fiver and you will forgo two pints when you next go out

 

Do you think I can watch a game with two less pints inside me?

[saintwarwick]

Do you think I can watch a game with two less pints inside me?

 

A saints game, no!!

[saintwarwick]

I understand i'm in a minority on the Redknapp issue, but don't give a ****. He was a good manager and he is a good manager. He inheritted a totally demoralised team running out of games. I don't blame him for our relegation.

 

Furthermore if he'd been backed by Lowe with more than £90k and hadn't been undermined with the removal of Jim Smith and appointment of SCW he would have got us up in season 1 in the CCC IMO.

 

He had 22 games to turn it around, almost two thirds of the season and we were two points of 15th place, hardly running out of games. He was also offered more than the £90k he spent.

[Mr X]

I understand i'm in a minority on the Redknapp issue, but don't give a ****. He was a good manager and he is a good manager. He inheritted a totally demoralised team running out of games. I don't blame him for our relegation.

 

Furthermore if he'd been backed by Lowe with more than £90k and hadn't been undermined with the removal of Jim Smith and appointment of SCW he would have got us up in season 1 in the CCC IMO.

 

I do for a good 75% of the blame, it was clear that he came to us on the rebound his heart and head wasn't at saints, if truth be told he couldn't give a flying fook about us it was all about doing the one thing that would hurt pompey and mandric the most

[chivvy1664]

Its no coincidence that lowe couldnt get the best out of Harry. Harry is not a yes man.

[alpine_saint]

I believe Stuart Gray too..

[OldNick]

I expect a bit of both are true. Although if you read the second piece it seems reasonalbe and fair.

Gray got the job as repayment for his loyalty by staying at Saints instead of walking with Hoddle to Spurs. I see no wrong in repaying the loyalty. It was soon obvious he was not up to the job and so was fired quickly. A mistake that RL didnt do the same with Wigley.

[SaintRichmond]

I believe Stuart Gray.

 

 

 

Me too ...

 

IMHO, at the time, Stuart Gray was trying to "stop" all the late night Disco booze ups that certain so called "Star" Saints players were indulging in

 

That did not go down too well with some of the Prima Donnas, and they whinged to Lowe.

 

Instead of Lowe BACKING Gray, and thereby Endorsing his Authority, Lowe listened to the whinging Late Night Clubbers, and DESTROYED any Authority Gray had

 

Shortly after, Gray was fired ......... another winner fron Lowe

 

This is not Bullsh*t ......... on one occasion, I was at the same "nightspot", and saw the players myself ............ mini version of Gazzaholic himself

[alpine_saint]

I expect a bit of both are true. Although if you read the second piece it seems reasonalbe and fair.

Gray got the job as repayment for his loyalty by staying at Saints instead of walking with Hoddle to Spurs. I see no wrong in repaying the loyalty. It was soon obvious he was not up to the job and so was fired quickly. A mistake that RL didnt do the same with Wigley.

 

nickh prefers the second piece - what a shocker....

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Me too ...

 

Shortly after, Gray was fired ......... another winner fron Lowe

 

Don't understand what there is to agree with Gray about ? he said he didn't leave by mutual consent, Lowe states he fired Gray !! simple really

[INFLUENCED.COM]

Lowe's appointed so many disasters over the years the only one he ever got right was wee gordon strachan

 

Hindsights 20:20

[Weston Super Saint]

Stuart Gray CHDAJFU now?

[um pahars]

Don't understand what there is to agree with Gray about ?

 

I think it is to do with the Delgado signing where Gray was saying it was not his signing and Lowe saying it was.

 

Having spoken to both of them about the episode, I am firmly of the opinion that Gray's version above is the one that is correct.

 

What is also damning about "Delgadogate" is that he signed for us on 13th November 2001.

 

Gray was sacked on 21st October 2001 (and WGS totally disassociated himself from the siging!!!).

 

So who really signed him???????

[rocknrollman no2]

Why? Because it suited your anti Lowe agenda? Because if it was wrong there is one less thing to criticise the man for.

 

For me the whole thread is typical of the small minded, vocal minority who would rather exercise their degree in hindsight on what was good and what was not rather than be constructive and ask who at the time he could have appointed.

 

Let's make it easier - who should have replaced Burley? Or even better who should have replaced Redknapp? Try thinking about who was available at the time.

 

This rubbish is typical of the lead weights that are burdening this club and preventing a positive environment that would help the club move forward.

 

If Lowe had got more things right than he got wrong,then there wouldnt be any anti Lowe agenda would there?

As for you second point,surely its ok to judge Lowe on his failed past record and to judge him on his failures now?I dont think hindsight comes into it,just common sense,something Rupert seems to know nothing about.

I thought Burley was a good apointment at the time and how i laughed when Rednapp came here,but while i dont blame Lowe for appointing them,i certainly blame him for things like Wigley and for meddling too much in team matters.

Also did you think it was a good idea bringing Lowe back with his past record?

Hes failed before,splits the fanbase and has no idea about running a football club.

But hey,perhaps i should take your advice,not moan,pay my money and watch my club go down the pan?

[rpb]

But hey,perhaps i should take your advice,not moan,pay my money and watch my club go down the pan?

 

Actually that course of action might stop them from going down the pan.