Rupert Lowe - we've been here before

[St Marco]

If Lowe had got more things right than he got wrong,then there wouldnt be any anti Lowe agenda would there?

 

This is the reality. If we go back in time (wish we could) to when we finished 8th and were going into our 1st season in europe for nearly 30 years. If we had continued in that vein by bringing in better players and backed the manager etc.. we would all be proud of his achievements. However the momment Strachan was told your getting no money for players it all started to fall apart. The amount of errors he made is just astonishing. And they persist to this very day. He is someone who HAD some success but threw it all away. The negatives far outweigh the positives with his reign. The fact some people expect the fans to actually thank him for what he did over 5 years ago and forget what he did in the past 5 years is pretty dumb. That is not realistic. The fact is the fans dislike him for what he has done to the club and what he has done makes him who he is. Right now Lowe is being Lowe and we will all suffer for it. The sad thing is if any of us acted in our jobs that way we would of been kicked out on our ass long ago. So that is why i blame Wilde the most. He brought him back in. Thanks Michael! Tosser.

[OldNick]

nickh prefers the second piece - what a shocker....

Alpine believes the first one shocker. LOL

 

Lowe admits to sacking him, and we all were impressed by the video of his goalscoring feats of Delgado that was played on the big screen before the match. It was the medical professionals who let us down on him.

Anyway nobody is going to change their opinions on a bit that was 3-4years old.

You keep your subversive stance going Alps, it wouldnt be the same without a sectoion of 5th columnists baying for us to fail.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

I think it is to do with the Delgado signing where Gray was saying it was not his signing and Lowe saying it was.

 

Having spoken to both of them about the episode, I am firmly of the opinion that Gray's version above is the one that is correct.

 

What is also damning about "Delgadogate" is that he signed for us on 13th November 2001.

 

Gray was sacked on 21st October 2001 (and WGS totally disassociated himself from the siging!!!).

 

So who really signed him???????

 

Exactly Steve, your dislike of Lowe means your balance of thought is impaired!

 

The dates don't stack up to support either of the arguements, and I suspect that Gray agreed with the siging even if he would have preferred Forlan, even at that stage Strachan had a chance to say no but didn't.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

If Lowe had got more things right than he got wrong,then there wouldnt be any anti Lowe agenda would there?

As for you second point,surely its ok to judge Lowe on his failed past record and to judge him on his failures now?I dont think hindsight comes into it,just common sense,something Rupert seems to know nothing about.

 

But nobody has balanced the arguement, he has developed the academy, delivered the new stadium, got us into Europe, got us to an FA Cup Final, provided as much money for investment as the likes of Bolton were doing and that is just the main things.

 

It is easy to be wise after the event but at a point in time someone has to make the decision on who to employ. Lowe was that person and he has been no more or less successful than the majority of Chairmen in all the leagues. Some seemingly weak appointments have turned out well, WGS, and some strong appointments have turned out badly, Redknapp. Other than te Wigley appointment which I feel repeated the error with Gray I think none of the other managers have been all bad. Even Dave Jones had his good times and Burley had his bad times.

 

I thought Burley was a good apointment at the time and how i laughed when Rednapp came here,but while i dont blame Lowe for appointing them,i certainly blame him for things like Wigley and for meddling too much in team matters.

Also did you think it was a good idea bringing Lowe back with his past record?

Hes failed before,splits the fanbase and has no idea about running a football club.

But hey,perhaps i should take your advice,not moan,pay my money and watch my club go down the pan?

 

Yes I thought it was a good idea to bring him back, Wilde and Crouch had been bad for the club worse some may argue than the 'Devil incarnate' himself. The real mistake though was getting rid of him the way we did. Too many wanted him out at any cost, this was wrong, those that took over should have showed proper funds etc. If I won the lottery I could in theory become a substantial share holder in SL but am I qualified to make decisions about running a football club no. Lowe at least had 10 years experience. I still want him out, but again it has to be the right people taking over.

 

I believe his success and failures are no more significant than those of any other chairmen, why should the Charlton chairman get away with relegation yet Lowe doesn't?

 

Again it is not those paying the money it those who are not that are watching their club go down the pan. I believe the fanbase has split itself on more issues than just Lowe and what has happened will never be healed. Unfortunately the vocal minority and those clever with words like Richard Chorley, Steve Godwin, even John Misslebrook have managed to build up such a chasm between groups that the fans are split pro and anti Lowe, does anybody remember we play football and not politics?

[um pahars]

Exactly Steve, your dislike of Lowe means your balance of thought is impaired!

 

The dates don't stack up to support either of the arguements, and I suspect that Gray agreed with the siging even if he would have preferred Forlan, even at that stage Strachan had a chance to say no but didn't.

 

I said what was damning was the dates and the fact that he was signed well after Gray had left, which would indicate to me that the push for signing Delgado originated with someone other than Gray

 

i.e. If it was Gray's choice, then I would have imagined that the deal would have been put on hold as soon as he was sacked.

 

Why would you continue with signing a player who was the choice of someone who would no longer play any part in the Club's future???

 

The decision to finally sign Delgado was certainly not Gray's as he had left three weeks earlier, and WGS has always said he was never involved, so just who was pushing this deal through???

[um pahars]

Unfortunately the vocal minority and those clever with words like Richard Chorley, Steve Godwin, even John Misslebrook have managed to build up such a chasm between groups that the fans are split pro and anti Lowe, does anybody remember we play football and not politics?

 

I think that you:

 

a) Firstly pay too much homage to a few people who mainly post on noddy, nerdy internet message board!!!!!! The opinions of those you have named (including myself) are no more valid or influential than any other on here.

 

and,

 

b) Secondly, you seriously underestimate (if not insult) the intelligence of Saints fans if you think they are swayed by the views of a few loudmouths. People make their own minds up on these things and many have never heard of this site, let alone the losers you're trying to balme it all on.

 

Get in the real world and you'll find that the pro and anti Lowe divide is just as evident out there. He's a marmite figure that's for sure and he builds the chasms himself (so feel free to stop laying the blame at the doors of others).

[Weston Super Saint]

I said what was damning was the dates and the fact that he was signed well after Gray had left, which would indicate to me that the push for signing Delgado originated with someone other than Gray

 

i.e. If it was Gray's choice, then I would have imagined that the deal would have been put on hold as soon as he was sacked.

 

Why would you continue with signing a player who was the choice of someone who would no longer play any part in the Club's future???

 

The decision to finally sign Delgado was certainly not Gray's as he had left three weeks earlier, and WGS has always said he was never involved, so just who was pushing this deal through???

 

The Director of Football

[Fan The Flames]

(so feel free to stop laying the blame at the doors of others).

 

Its what these guys do, according to them every thing that is bad at this club is down to the fans, no one else.

[70's Mike]

But nobody has balanced the arguement, he has developed the academy, delivered the new stadium, got us into Europe, got us to an FA Cup Final, provided as much money for investment as the likes of Bolton were doing and that is just the main things.

 

It is easy to be wise after the event but at a point in time someone has to make the decision on who to employ. Lowe was that person and he has been no more or less successful than the majority of Chairmen in all the leagues. Some seemingly weak appointments have turned out well, WGS, and some strong appointments have turned out badly, Redknapp. Other than te Wigley appointment which I feel repeated the error with Gray I think none of the other managers have been all bad. Even Dave Jones had his good times and Burley had his bad times.

 

 

 

Yes I thought it was a good idea to bring him back, Wilde and Crouch had been bad for the club worse some may argue than the 'Devil incarnate' himself. The real mistake though was getting rid of him the way we did. Too many wanted him out at any cost, this was wrong, those that took over should have showed proper funds etc. If I won the lottery I could in theory become a substantial share holder in SL but am I qualified to make decisions about running a football club no. Lowe at least had 10 years experience. I still want him out, but again it has to be the right people taking over.

 

I believe his success and failures are no more significant than those of any other chairmen, why should the Charlton chairman get away with relegation yet Lowe doesn't?

 

Again it is not those paying the money it those who are not that are watching their club go down the pan. I believe the fanbase has split itself on more issues than just Lowe and what has happened will never be healed. Unfortunately the vocal minority and those clever with words like Richard Chorley, Steve Godwin, even John Misslebrook have managed to build up such a chasm between groups that the fans are split pro and anti Lowe, does anybody remember we play football and not politics?

 

Lowe put himself on a pedistal , and you are wrong it is not the vocal minority but the silent majority that do not like him.

Other than the stadium he has delivered nothing that we had not already had in the previous 25 years.

This club has always done everything on the cheap, except dividend payments , the reverse takeover in 97 being the prime example.

[Snowballs2]

Lowe put himself on a pedistal , and you are wrong it is not the vocal minority but the silent majority that do not like him.

Other than the stadium he has delivered nothing that we had not already had in the previous 25 years.

This club has always done everything on the cheap, except dividend payments , the reverse takeover in 97 being the prime example.

 

I am with him!!!

[St_Tel49]

I believe Stuart Gray.

 

H'mmm that must qualify as most unexpected post of the day!!!

[St_Tel49]

Its no coincidence that lowe couldnt get the best out of Harry. Harry is not a yes man.

 

And you are saying that WGS was!!!!!????

[Mole]

And you are saying that WGS was!!!!!????

 

As a matter of fact i'd say WGS could well have been a yes man when he first arrived. He was afterall rescued by Saints after a disaterous managerial start at Coventry.

[St_Tel49]

As a matter of fact i'd say WGS could well have been a yes man when he first arrived. He was afterall rescued by Saints after a disaterous managerial start at Coventry.

 

If you have not read his autobiography you might find it enlightening. WGS would never be anyone's poodle.

[Mole]

If you have not read his autobiography you might find it enlightening.

 

I doubt it. The confidentiality clause he signed at Saints makes the book not worth reading. Also he's still an active manager therefore the book is not his life story unconstrained by politics.

[saintwarwick]

I doubt it. The confidentiality clause he signed at Saints makes the book not worth reading. Also he's still an active manager therefore the book is not his life story unconstrained by politics.

 

His book was a good read and he is not a poodle imo, however what is contained in the confidentiality clause is only known to those parties involved so none of us can comment on the relationship between the two (Lowe/WGS) so everything we post is opinions only. His book is his life story so far.

[Mole]

His book was a good read and he is not a poodle imo, however what is contained in the confidentiality clause is only known to those parties involved so none of us can comment on the relationship between the two (Lowe/WGS) so everything we post is opinions only. His book is his life story so far.

 

Fair enough. I'd have to read it before commenting but that's never going to happen.

 

Has Matt Le Tissier written a book yet?

[Beckster Von Doodle]

I said what was damning was the dates and the fact that he was signed well after Gray had left, which would indicate to me that the push for signing Delgado originated with someone other than Gray

 

i.e. If it was Gray's choice, then I would have imagined that the deal would have been put on hold as soon as he was sacked.

 

Why would you continue with signing a player who was the choice of someone who would no longer play any part in the Club's future???

 

The decision to finally sign Delgado was certainly not Gray's as he had left three weeks earlier, and WGS has always said he was never involved, so just who was pushing this deal through???

 

I think Strachan said the negotiations had progressed to a point where evrything had been agreed and he was unable to stop it. Who's to say that Gray didn't just say we needed another striker? Unless you are a very experienced player in the transfer game I would suggest many clubs rely on the scouting reports.

 

I think as a stick to beat Lowe with this is a limp sausage.

[CB Fry]

I doubt it. The confidentiality clause he signed at Saints makes the book not worth reading. Also he's still an active manager therefore the book is not his life story unconstrained by politics.

 

 

I don't think Strachan signed a confidentiality clause. You're thinking of Sturrock.

 

Strachan's book is pretty frank about Lowe. What people like you can't stand is that Strachan and Lowe worked well together for the entire time they were at the club together, and they still get on today.

 

Anyway, who gives a fu ck about this drivel. It's over. We came back from the dead today and the march to a glorious sixteenth place finish is well and truly on.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

I think that you:

 

a) Firstly pay too much homage to a few people who mainly post on noddy, nerdy internet message board!!!!!! The opinions of those you have named (including myself) are no more valid or influential than any other on here.

 

and,

 

b) Secondly, you seriously underestimate (if not insult) the intelligence of Saints fans if you think they are swayed by the views of a few loudmouths. People make their own minds up on these things and many have never heard of this site, let alone the losers you're trying to balme it all on.

 

Get in the real world and you'll find that the pro and anti Lowe divide is just as evident out there. He's a marmite figure that's for sure and he builds the chasms himself (so feel free to stop laying the blame at the doors of others).

 

I pay homage to no one Steve, that is why I am able to see that both sides have an arguement and in fact think Lowe has little to offer the club going forward. But the extremes I see on here are just that, and it is the vocal minority not just on the internet sites, but in the echo and around the ground that have swayed or alienated the moderates.

 

In the real world at election times who do you think the clever orators try to sway? It ain't the stauch Labour or Conservative voter it is the moderates in the middle ground, and I have no doubt that it is the same on here.

 

The blame if any lies at the door of those who gave momentum to the Wilde takeover and to get rid of Lowe at any cost, of which I was not one. I will repeat, I want Lowe out, but NOT at any cost as some still seem to want to do. In the absence of money he IS the best man to run the club. We need a bean counter and he fits that mould. What happens on the football pitch is secondary to managing the business at the moment/

[Mole]

Are you using Beckys log in again Richard?[-X

[Beckster Von Doodle]

Lowe put himself on a pedistal , and you are wrong it is not the vocal minority but the silent majority that do not like him.

Other than the stadium he has delivered nothing that we had not already had in the previous 25 years.

This club has always done everything on the cheap, except dividend payments , the reverse takeover in 97 being the prime example.

 

Wrong, the academy that we had that turned out the likes of Le Tissier, Shearer etc, had gone to rack and ruin through the mid to late 90's.

 

An FA Cup Final, not sure we had been to close to that for 25 years. Europe the same.

 

And can you blame him for taking his business opportunities when presented to him by Askham?

 

I am guessing that those you say are in the silent majority understand that there is no alternative right now, and I would count myself as one of those.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

Are you using Beckys log in again Richard?[-X

 

No it is her partner David.

[Mole]

I pay homage to no one Steve, that is why I am able to see that both sides have an arguement and in fact think Lowe has little to offer the club going forward. But the extremes I see on here are just that, and it is the vocal minority not just on the internet sites, but in the echo and around the ground that have swayed or alienated the moderates.

 

In the real world at election times who do you think the clever orators try to sway? It ain't the stauch Labour or Conservative voter it is the moderates in the middle ground, and I have no doubt that it is the same on here.

 

There's always two sides to every argument, and i'll admit i'm anti Lowe with a passion, but likewise you've long been far from the centre ground.

Edited 1 November, 2008 by Mole
there was a better way of putting it

[SFC Forever]

After today's fantastic result it is possible we could reach a safe mid table position this season. The club has shown that despite our perilous financial position it still has some fight in it. Bigger gates would help us stave of a worsening of our position financially and give a big boost to our young team. So is it not our job as Southampton football club supporters to do just that, support? Sky will be at St Marys next week so let's show everyone that we support the team and help them get over our Sky jinx.

[St_Tel49]

Fair enough. I'd have to read it before commenting but that's never going to happen.

 

QUOTE]

Yep - heaven for bid that you should read anything that might cause you to change your view

[Snowballs2]

After today's fantastic result it is possible we could reach a safe mid table position this season. The club has shown that despite our perilous financial position it still has some fight in it. Bigger gates would help us stave of a worsening of our position financially and give a big boost to our young team. So is it not our job as Southampton football club supporters to do just that, support? Sky will be at St Marys next week so let's show everyone that we support the team and help them get over our Sky jinx.

 

 

I thought that the game was on Setanta not sky, anyone know

[um pahars]

In the real world at election times who do you think the clever orators try to sway? It ain't the stauch Labour or Conservative voter it is the moderates in the middle ground, and I have no doubt that it is the same on here.

 

I must have blinked and missed Chorley's £10 infommercial.

 

Comparing posts on this site to a General Election is somewhat deviating from the realms of reality.

 

If anyone was seriously swayed or alienated because of what is written on here, then I have to question the make up of that person. This isn't a forum that sublminally or even sperliminally influences people.

 

This is noddy, nerdy iternet message board read by a small percentage of Saints fans and contains a myriad of opinions, information and rubbish.

 

We have the pro Lowes, the anti Lowes, the ambivalent Lowes, the pro Crouch's, the anti Crouch's, the pro McGoldrick, the anti McGoldricks ad nauseum (with a good combiantion of them as well).

 

The one thing I would agree with you is that we do appear to have the extremes of all views on here, but that is more to the nature of internet forums and how people express themselves on them, which is very often so different than real life.

 

But cutting to the chase, chasms have not been created by supporters. Sadly we have been the recipients of some very poor management.

 

Chasms have been created by those who have been in charge over recent years, from Lowe, through, Wilde, Crouch, Hone etc and back to Lowe who have all mismanaged this Club to some degree in recent years.

 

PS I must also have blinked when you posted a similar attack on those creating division by having a pop at Crouch, Pearson and McMenemy earlier this year.

[70's Mike]

Wrong, the academy that we had that turned out the likes of Le Tissier, Shearer etc, had gone to rack and ruin through the mid to late 90's.

 

An FA Cup Final, not sure we had been to close to that for 25 years. Europe the same.

 

And can you blame him for taking his business opportunities when presented to him by Askham?

 

I am guessing that those you say are in the silent majority understand that there is no alternative right now, and I would count myself as one of those.

 

bit concerned you do not know that we won the cup in 1976 , 21 years before Rupert took over.

[NickG]

bit concerned you do not know that we won the cup in 1976 ' date=' 21 years before Rupert took over.[/quote']

 

think he meant the 27 years between the two appearances,

[Mole]

Yep - heaven for bid that you should read anything that might cause you to change your view

 

The reason i won't be reading it is because i find autobiographies boring in general. An exception being my signed Ian Douglas Smith autobiography which is a superb read and my prize possesion.

[John B]

bit concerned you do not know that we won the cup in 1976 ' date=' 21 years before Rupert took over.[/quote']

 

I think that is what he is saying

 

But we did get to a couple of Semis in the Eighties

[John B]

This is noddy, nerdy iternet message board read by a small percentage of Saints fans and contains a myriad of opinions, information and rubbish

 

But there are a lot of bigotted posters on here who reckon everything that Lowe does is completely wrong.

 

I am sure he makes mistakes like everybody else including all the other Football Chairman .

[70's Mike]

I think that is what he is saying

 

But we did get to a couple of Semis in the Eighties

 

best saints side i ever saw 1984.

not the best players but easily , imo, best team

[Guest Hacienda]

best saints side i ever saw 1984.

not the best players but easily , imo, best team

 

Amen.

[um pahars]

But there are a lot of bigotted posters on here who reckon everything that Lowe does is completely wrong.

 

I am sure he makes mistakes like everybody else including all the other Football Chairman .

 

And there are also bigoted posters on here who reckon everything that Lowe does is completely right.

 

Then of course you have the vast majority of posters on here who judge people in a rational and logical manner on the basis of what they see, feel and know (not what people tell them to think!).

 

Other people's view on the situation and the opinion they espouse may not be the same as yours, but that's football for you (and nowadays what goes on in the boardroom has a direct impact on what happens on the pitch, so the two are inextricably linked).

 

Sadly, too many on here try to pigeonhole people and find hidden agendas behind personally held views (e.g. "you only hate Lowe cos he's posh").

[um pahars]

best saints side i ever saw 1984.

not the best players but easily , imo, best team

 

Totally agree, hence my long held grudge against Adrian Heath and Everton (mind you the Everton one started when Bailey signed for them and has never gone away since).

[Mole]

I must have blinked and missed Chorley's £10 infommercial.

 

Comparing posts on this site to a General Election is somewhat deviating from the realms of reality.

 

If anyone was seriously swayed or alienated because of what is written on here, then I have to question the make up of that person. This isn't a forum that sublminally or even sperliminally influences people.

 

I disagree. Rupert Lowes PR company posted covertly on S4E to try to improve Lowes image. Them calling him "a bit of a tosser" was priceless.

[Beckster Von Doodle]

bit concerned you do not know that we won the cup in 1976 ' date=' 21 years before Rupert took over.[/quote']

 

1976 to 2003 is 27 years isn't it?

[Beckster Von Doodle]

best saints side i ever saw 1984.

not the best players but easily , imo, best team

 

I have to agree, but it is a whole new world now. We had pretty much the best defence on paper in the League, the midfield were the best players not in the England side and up front was Moran and Worthington (?? I think).

 

When you look at the likes of Osgood and Keegan at the Dell it would be similar to us signing say Shearer and Owen by todays standards, getting hold of Alan Ball for example, todays equivilent would be someone like Beckham. The comparison between the affordability of such players then and now is so different. To the degree I think it has ruined our football (English Leagues) the likes of Saints, Norwich, Ipswich, Forest etc will never compete with the top four again, the money in the CL and that brought in by private investement is so huge.

 

Even at the end of his career Beckham can control contracts from clubs as big as Inter Milan.

 

The change came through the 90's when our ground restricted our ability to bring in top players, or more so keep the likes of Shearer, Ruddock, Wright, Flowers even the promising youngsters moved on like Maddison.

 

Which brings us full circle and I'll ask again what clubs have done any better than Saints, or any worse without substantial private investment. There are a few but not many. Een Newcastle could be in trouble this year!

[exit2]

I disagree. Rupert Lowes PR company posted covertly on S4E to try to improve Lowes image. Them calling him "a bit of a tosser" was priceless.

 

LOL. The infamous "Cowen Gate" episode

 

[um pahars]

I disagree. Rupert Lowes PR company posted covertly on S4E to try to improve Lowes image. Them calling him "a bit of a tosser" was priceless.

 

Oh no!!!!!!!! That was just terrible all round.

 

Thinking they could court and influence opinion by entering into subtefuge on here. Then claiming it was all a storm in a teacup etc etc etc.

 

One of the most misguided, foolish and quite frankly insulting episodes in recent years.

 

Cowengate me up :smt119:smt119

[St. Jason]

Breaking news huh?

 

**** off you patronising ****! rhere is no room for fans like you in our club, i'd rather no club as opposed to sitting next to a **** like you!

[Snowballs2]

**** off you patronising ****! rhere is no room for fans like you in our club, i'd rather no club as opposed to sitting next to a **** like you!

 

 

While there are Trolls ,Lowe luvies (not so many these days) like the rest of us, they are entitled to their views , no matter how radicle they are. If you don't like certain posters put them on ignore, or, don't read them. They will soon go away if there is no response

[Charlie Wayman]

As events have turned out we ended up with Poortvleit and I prefer him to Gray any day. Any poort in a storm, aye!

[Scudamore]

**** off you patronising ****! rhere is no room for fans like you in our club, i'd rather no club as opposed to sitting next to a **** like you!

 

Not entirely sure what your problem is...but i suggest you don't sit anywhere near me if that's your attitude...

 

Retreading the ground of 4 years ago doesn't get us anywhere...oh and my support of Saints is unwaving and entirely welcome by anyone with half a braincell...

Edited 3 November, 2008 by Scudamore