out of interest

[OldNick]

if we ever did happen to be taken over would you still want us to carry on with the Jan experiment (if you can call it that) or immediately go to the trusted experienced player who have been there before route to try and get us back?

I am torn, as I have enjoyed watching these lads having a go.Frustrating as it is, I would be reticent to see things go back to the old way.

Perhaps the only advantage would be if we could just add a couple and I mean a couple of the older experienced players to the team

[Greenridge]

From a personal perspective I stick with the old addage...if you're good enough you're old enough. Some of our young guns are clearly not good enough and for those positions then they should be replaced but that doesn't necessarily mean by an older player. Without doubt a blend of experience is essential.

[krissyboy31]

We have some excellent youngsters but not ALL of them are good enough and others are NOT YET ready. The problem we have is that we don't have enough DECENT experienced players left in the squad to help bring the youngsters through at their own pace and therefore we have to play them, good enough or not, ready or not.

[OldNick]

fair comment, but when we had in the past half performing experienced players they would keep their place due to reputation and the kid would be left out as they weren't ready. Unless they are played it is hrd to tell. Gobern saturday(I know 1 swallow and all that) would not have been anyewhere near first team football in the past, and os it is quite refreshing to see this unfolding.

[Rusaldo]

yeah i agree, keep with the lads but improve the weak area's with the best player avaliable. regardless of age

[krissyboy31]

fair comment, but when we had in the past half performing experienced players they would keep their place due to reputation and the kid would be left out as they weren't ready. Unless they are played it is hrd to tell. Gobern saturday(I know 1 swallow and all that) would not have been anyewhere near first team football in the past, and os it is quite refreshing to see this unfolding.

 

I think that says more about some of our past managers, than the younsters' talent.

 

Youngsters need to learn their trade and the best way to do that, is to be introduced to the side bit by bit (an appearance from the bench, here and a start, there). Some can cope with being pitched in to the team and left to sink or swim but it can ruin others' careers.

[Long Shot]

One of the problems of this experiment is the continual chopping and changing (14 different central defensive partnerships already this season).

 

A good side needs to be a settled side and (injuries permitting) JP seems unsure of not only who to pick but where to play them.

[VectisSaint]

It's not the players, necessarily, but the coach. Jan is a nice guy but bereft of ideas, tactical knowledge and experience in the English game. Get a proper coach in and let them work out whether some of the kids are good enough or not, some of them clearly are, others clearly will be in time. And stop playing pathetic tactics at home.

[miserableoldgit]

One of the problems of this experiment is the continual chopping and changing (14 different central defensive partnerships already this season).

 

A good side needs to be a settled side and (injuries permitting) JP seems unsure of not only who to pick but where to play them.

I think to be fair that injuries (Lee Holmes, Morgan S, Perry etc, etc) along with the continual influx of (loan) signings will have had a detrimental effect on continuity. In the whole scheme of things these issues combined with the fact that JP is new to the English league and hasn`t really had THAT many games to get a settled side have made it difficult for him.

 

As for the original question - I would like to see him given the chance to carry things forward but with a bit of money being available to bring in some better more experienced player in the particularly weak areas.

[Roman]

The weird thing is that Burley, Dodd and JP were all full backs in their playing days - and yet no one seems to see the need for them.

Edited 5 November, 2008 by Roman

[Alanh]

It's not the players, necessarily, but the coach. Jan is a nice guy but bereft of ideas, tactical knowledge and experience in the English game. Get a proper coach in and let them work out whether some of the kids are good enough or not, some of them clearly are, others clearly will be in time. And stop playing pathetic tactics at home.

 

What pathetic tactics at home? I've only seen the team try to play an attacking passing game, keeping possession and creating opportunities through passing. OK, it hasn't worked perfectly every game, we haven't always been solid enough defensively and we don't put away enough of the chances we create, but we have gone out every game looking to attack with multiple players getting forward from the wings and central midfield.

[Snowballs2]

Nothing against playing youth...however there must be a fine balance of experience in the side together with knowledge of how you play in this league if you want to ultimately get out of it. To some degree its horses for courses, know your needs.

Youth and experience is an absolute must, but, too many kids is as bad as too many older pros. That is why I say there must be a fine balance between the two

[saintjay77]

One of the problems of this experiment is the continual chopping and changing (14 different central defensive partnerships already this season).

 

A good side needs to be a settled side and (injuries permitting) JP seems unsure of not only who to pick but where to play them.

 

What was the last season where we had a continual defensive partnership?

 

Injurys although shouldnt be used as an excuse too often have plagued us for a few years now and mainly in defence. This season hasnt been too different to the past few seasons with injurys and 2 red cards (1 stupid and 1 for the team IMO) being the main reason behind all the different partnerships.

 

it is very frustrating to see but I dont see what can be done to put it right.

 

I admire JP for sticking to his guns in the pursuit of getting the team to play the right way and if all falls into place then home or away we will get entertaining football with a hatfull of goals. I wish he would at least accept that a 4-4-2 is not a bad plan b to have in the locker for when we go behind against teams that are harder to break down.

 

So if a takeover should materialise I would like to see the "experiment" continue on the basis that there would be money available in the next transfer window to shore up any areas that are still week.

[saintjay77]

The weird thing is that Burley, Dodd and JP were all full backs in their playing days - and yet no one seems to see the need for them.

 

and JP was a national team defender in 1 of the greatest holand teams so you would think he knows 1 or 2 things about defending that he could teacht eh kids too

[Rocker268]

I would give Jan a chance, as we would be able to bring in new players to fill in the gaps and secure our defence. The football we play is some of the most entertaining I have seen in a long time, but we need a stronger back four and strike force, so give Jan the time and money to do this and then see what happens.

[Alain Perrin]

What pathetic tactics at home? I've only seen the team try to play an attacking passing game, keeping possession and creating opportunities through passing. OK, it hasn't worked perfectly every game, we haven't always been solid enough defensively and we don't put away enough of the chances we create, but we have gone out every game looking to attack with multiple players getting forward from the wings and central midfield.

 

Agreed. There seems to be an obsession here (and to some extent in the media) with us playing one up front. To me that is just spin by old school diehards who don't understand anything other than lump it up to the big man.

 

We don't play one up front, we play 3 upfront when attacking (with two of the middle five joining in). Far more attacking than we were with 442 last season - at least now we have players who get to the by-line.

 

Personally I'd give the style of play 8/10 with results 4/10. As this team matures I expect the results to improve (remains to be seen what happens when the loans go though).

 

So I'd keep JP on and give him some money to strengthen where he needs to (fullbacks being one area). However I'd still be biased towards a youthful side rather than the cloggers we've had sucking wages from the club in previous seasons.

[saintjay77]

Mixture. Keep integrating the 3 teams, which make absolute sense and giving youngsters a chance, but have a far better spine of experienced players. That's where the money comes in. Plus sign people like Cork rather than loaning them. An expensive experienced centre back, central midfield and striker would have this squad way, way higher up the league. So considering the financial mess and all the changes, we're not THAT far off and there's a good basis here for anyone with money coming in.

 

Looking at our squad though we have Svensson who without the injurys would be the expensive experienced defender, Euell who has proved he could be the quality and experience we need in mid field, we just got rid of john who althouth a good striker didnt suit the system we play so i dont think his tally would have been as much this season as last, rasiak not sure as he hasnt had much of a chance in this system and saga has been off the boil pretty much since he signed a contract with us. All 3 are class strikers in there own right but dont suit what is trying to be done here. K Jones is the only striker of recent times that I think would have thrived on this set up and there are not too many of him around the leagues that we would get in so even with a bit of money we would struggle to fill that area in the squad should we continue with this system.

[Foxy]

Despite the results being hit and miss so far I'm happy with the approach - an attempt at coherence through the playing side and a shared objective - as well as the way we are trying to play. I'd love to see how this approach would work out if we were on a stronger financial footing and could retain talent and bring in a higher quality both in terms of the youth side and the odd player fast tracked into the first team.

 

For me the approach now is a lot more admirable than a bunch of highly paid mercenaries following the same formula as 90% of the clubs out there and, frankly, getting similar results to now with a tawdry, unappealing brand of football.

 

Now, trot out a team of highly paid mercenaries playing like the Harlem Globetrotters as they sweep all before them and I might be happy, but be honest, if we could have success through a well financed version of what Jan et al are doign now, woudln't that be more satisfactory?

[Oz]

can we replace lowe?

[saintjay77]

can we replace lowe?

 

surely if a take over materialised that is what would happen?

[Charlie2008]

can we replace lowe?

 

...I knew one was coming...

[OldNick]

can we replace lowe?

seeing your location. Im not surprised that your mind is befuddled OZ. It said if the takeover happened

[jam]

I'd like to see what JP could do with the mandate to go out into the transfer market and strengthen our team rather than relying too heavily on youth players coming through.

[swannymere]

There are only so many billionaires prepared to bankroll clubs these days, and we are way down the list of attractive propositions. I think that a mixture of young blood and 3 or 4 experienced pros is the only way to go for clubs of our size and stature. And all the dreamers out there better start waking up to the fact that we've ALWAYS been a selling club and that won't change for the foreseable future, be realistic, if we have to sell a couple of kids a season to stay afloat then we'll have to learn to accept the fact, if not like it. I don't remember the same fuss when the Wallace brothers, Shearer etc. left.

[Delmary]

if we ever did happen to be taken over would you still want us to carry on with the Jan experiment (if you can call it that) or immediately go to the trusted experienced player who have been there before route to try and get us back?

I am torn, as I have enjoyed watching these lads having a go.Frustrating as it is, I would be reticent to see things go back to the old way.

Perhaps the only advantage would be if we could just add a couple and I mean a couple of the older experienced players to the team

If we get taken over I would want the club to get the best players and manager available within our budget. That could mean sticking with what we've got and adding a few experiences pros or getting a top manager like WGS and letting him buy the best players available to complete in this league. Ulimately the answer will be determined by the amount of money made available for players/manager from a takeover. Edited 5 November, 2008 by Delmary
Added a few more words.

[OldNick]

If we get taken over I would want the club to get the best players and manager available within our budget. That could mean sticking with what we've got and adding a few experiences pros or getting a top manager like WGS and letting him buy the best players available to complete in this league.

If we could have the 100% security that we woulkd not be rellegated i would like us to carry on as we are.

[Delmary]

If we could have the 100% security that we woulkd not be rellegated i would like us to carry on as we are.

Interesting. But how?

[Under Weststand]

Stick with the plan, in time I believe it will deliver. If taken over then strengthen the squad with 2/3 good experienced players & we would be in a very good position to move forward. I would like to see the idea of every level of team within the club playing the same system kept going.

[Sheff Saint]

The weird thing is that Burley, Dodd and JP were all full backs in their playing days - and yet no one seems to see the need for them.

 

I'm surprised Doddesy didn't do more to address that given he was in charge for 3 weeks outside of a transfer window...

[Sheff Saint]

I would say buy as much talent as we could do get us back in the Prem.

 

Meanwhile invest very hard in the academy, and more importantly in the Southampton area schools so that Southampton becomes a hot bed of football. Then in time we'd not need to spend mega bucks cos we'd have great kids coming through a great academy playing for an already massive club.

 

Great idea as it is at the moment, the flaw is half the youngsters playing are barely good enough for the football league and the others that are ok, will in time become the journey men footballers that for some reason seem so disliked on here.

[Roman]

I'm surprised Doddesy didn't do more to address that given he was in charge for 3 weeks outside of a transfer window...

 

Ah, so he wasn't at the club before that then? And couldn't have arranged any loans?

Edited 5 November, 2008 by Roman

[Graffito]

Don't throw the babies out with the bath water. Three good quality older heads at centreback, centre midfield and up front to give backbone. Three players away from being a good side.

[Windmill Arm 2]

I would drop Jan like a hat, get a proven manager in and spend spend spend our way to the Premiership.

[Gemmel]

I'm not sure that the experiment is little more than just the formation right now. The kids are being played mainly down to financial constraints and the "Total football" ******** - (As in players, playing in all positions and filling in or dropping off when another player makes a run, to keep a constant shape) is non existant.

So the whole experiment thing seems to come down to whether we play one or two people upfront and with the exception on Saturday, the lone striker hasn't worked.

My personal opnion is that the shape should be based on who we are playing, with the manager doing his homework and having match by match tactics, under pinned with the style of football they have chosen.

Edited 5 November, 2008 by Gemmel

[Capel Saint]

In answer to the original question I would move JP to the coaching staff as I like the way the side are playing attacking football but get in a manager who is more astute tactically and with the knowledge of English players. With that combination I think Saints would become a very good side. Still, with time, JP and the current team may keep improving as the season goes on. Here's hoping!

[slickmick]

Don't throw the babies out with the bath water. Three good quality older heads at centreback, centre midfield and up front to give backbone. Three players away from being a good side.

 

 

I still think we are weak in the fullback positions. Pearce in centre of defence looks like the rock solid, get stuck in, kind of defender we have been crying out for. Midfield I would leave as it is, as I think when Holmes gets back we will look more balanced. If Gasmi is as good as some portray him to be, then we could end up with one hell of a good midfield to choose from. Strikers are still short of what we require, now if we had Leroy lita things could be so different.

So 3 more good quality older players would be all we need.

As for Jan, I like him and the way he is trying to play the game, so would give him until January at the very least.

But come January transfer window time, we may see the rug pulled from underneath him.

Edited 5 November, 2008 by slickmick
My Obssession with Pearson instead of Pearce.

[OldNick]

I would like to see the idea of every level of team within the club playing the same system kept going.

That is how I see it as well. I think Arsenal do the same thing and so a player cqan slip straight into the tream as he has always played the same system.It seems so logical Im amazed it is seen as revolutionary over here.

[OldNick]

Pearson in centre of defence looks like the rock solid, get stuck in, kind of defender we have been crying out for.

He cant manage Leicester and play for us Mick

[lordswoodsaints]

nothing will happen overnight as is the case with man city,you cannot go out and buy the best eleven players in the world and employ the best manager in the world and expect to then win everything.......it just doesnt happen like that.

i would stick with what we have got until january and then introduce maybe 3 or 4 decent players for jan to play with and see what he can do.

if at the end of the season we are still floundering then perhaps a change of manager will be needed.

but it aint going to happen so we have to get behind what we already have in place and make the best of what we have got,players and manager.

[slickmick]

He cant manage Leicester and play for us Mick

 

 

Ha Ha. Now Edited.

[krissyboy31]

I still think we are weak in the fullback positions. Pearson in centre of defence looks like the rock solid, get stuck in, kind of defender we have been crying out for. Midfield I would leave as it is, as I think when Holmes gets back we will look more balanced. If Gasmi is as good as some portray him to be, then we could end up with one hell of a good midfield to choose from. Strikers are still short of what we require, now if we had Leroy lita things could be so different.

So 3 more good quality older players would be all we need.

As for Jan, I like him and the way he is trying to play the game, so would give him until January at the very least.

But come January transfer window time, we may see the rug pulled from underneath him.

 

Trouble is, come January all the loan players will have gone back and we could have lost the likes of Surman, Lallana and Skacel, which means that Jan (if he's still here) will have to build another new team (not just add 3 quality players). Until our debts are wiped out, this will happen every transfer window and if we don't get some sort of investment, the money from these 'sales' will only go to service the debt and not into strengthening the squad.

 

This in turn will mean more reliance on loans and even less experienced youngsters. It doesn't matter how good our Academy is, it does not have a bottomless pit of talent.

[slickmick]

Trouble is, come January all the loan players will have gone back and we could have lost the likes of Surman, Lallana and Skacel, which means that Jan (if he's still here) will have to build another new team (not just add 3 quality players). Until our debts are wiped out, this will happen every transfer window and if we don't get some sort of investment, the money from these 'sales' will only go to service the debt and not into strengthening the squad.

 

This in turn will mean more reliance on loans and even less experienced youngsters. It doesn't matter how good our Academy is, it does not have a bottomless pit of talent.

 

 

Absolutely, but the question from Nick, was would you keep him if we got taken over ? So if we were taken over tommorrow, I would keep him until at least January providing he is allowed to keep the players he wants. It would be interesting to know what players/positions he would buy if he was given money.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

One of the problems of this experiment is the continual chopping and changing (14 different central defensive partnerships already this season).

 

A good side needs to be a settled side and (injuries permitting) JP seems unsure of not only who to pick but where to play them.

 

And we'll end up with a settled side just in time for the loans to go back in January. And then we can start all over again.

[OldNick]

And we'll end up with a settled side just in time for the loans to go back in January. And then we can start all over again.

that is a sad fact of the matter but if the squad is used to playing the same way throughtout the club then it should be seamless. The club can use the loan system until it gets financially stronger or until the club is upo and running in this way.

[OldNick]

and we could have lost the likes of Surman, Lallana and Skacel, QUOTE] Honestly do ypu really bel;ieve any of those have proved themselves consistantly to go to higher leagues. Surman has started to look more of his old self and as Jan himself said to play 'in the hole' you have to break into the area to score and that is something the great prospect he is Lallana is yet to do.

I think that it wont be until the summer when they go unless they start to really show up as better than 'prospects'

[krissyboy31]

Absolutely, but the question from Nick, was would you keep him if we got taken over ? So if we were taken over tommorrow, I would keep him until at least January providing he is allowed to keep the players he wants. It would be interesting to know what players/positions he would buy if he was given money.

 

In that case I'd settle for Mourinho as manager, with a midfield of Ronaldo, Kaka, Gerrard and Fabregas.

[slickmick]

Trouble is, come January all the loan players will have gone back and we could have lost the likes of Surman, Lallana and Skacel, which means that Jan (if he's still here) will have to build another new team (not just add 3 quality players). Until our debts are wiped out, this will happen every transfer window and if we don't get some sort of investment, the money from these 'sales' will only go to service the debt and not into strengthening the squad.

 

This in turn will mean more reliance on loans and even less experienced youngsters. It doesn't matter how good our Academy is, it does not have a bottomless pit of talent.

 

 

I would hope that by the start of next season we will have released enough of the players that are bleeding us dry with their wages. Although we will be without Surman,Lallana ect I still think we will have enough in reserve to make for a better season next year. As for the loanees we have at present, the only ones that I would like to keep are Cork and Pearce. Surely we would be able to have an option to buy these two at an affordable rate, if Surman, Lallana and maybe a couple of the high earners were released ?

[krissyboy31]

and we could have lost the likes of Surman, Lallana and Skacel, QUOTE] Honestly do ypu really bel;ieve any of those have proved themselves consistantly to go to higher leagues. Surman has started to look more of his old self and as Jan himself said to play 'in the hole' you have to break into the area to score and that is something the great prospect he is Lallana is yet to do.

I think that it wont be until the summer when they go unless they start to really show up as better than 'prospects'

 

What makes you think that they will go to the higher leagues? IMO if any team makes a reasonable offer for any of our players (and I'm sure we've all heard of Reading's interest for Surman and Fulham's for Lallana), then they will be sold, whether they want to go, or not.

Edited 5 November, 2008 by krissyboy31

[Saint Mikey]

that is a sad fact of the matter but if the squad is used to playing the same way throughtout the club then it should be seamless. The club can use the loan system until it gets financially stronger or until the club is upo and running in this way.

 

Sadly this is the only way we can survive or progress now, given the mis-management since we were relegated. We have no other choice and take-overs are pipe dreams really, considering the global economy.

 

It's going to be a slow process, but I'm optimistic eventually we'll get there. Plus we'll get to see alot of homegrown youngsters progress before they go to 'big' clubs - sob.

[OldNick]

In that case I'd settle for Mourinho as manager, with a midfield of Ronaldo, Kaka, Gerrard and Fabregas.

but where would you play Wooton in that midfield?