what is our best eleven?

[Chez]

Doesn't really tell the story. For a start many of Saga's sub appearances were less than 10 minutes.

 

Colceshter, home - Came on with 30s of injury time left.

Ipswich, away - Came on in the 88th minute.

 

If we take the average length of time he was on the pitch for those sub appearances as 15 mins. 16 sub appearances works out roughly as 3 full games. That takes his total to 17 for the season.

 

If you take into account that DMG seems to have some God-given right to be on the pitch (22 starts, 1 sub and how many times can you remember him being taken off?) and the fact that 2 of those goals came in a League Cup tie against Exeter another was a penalty... he really isn't that good.

 

So...

 

DMG - 4 goals (3 from open play) in 22 full League games

Saga - 3 goals (4, but for some reason nobody counts his goal at PNE) in 17 Full League Games.

 

If any of that is unfair, please explain how.

 

nicely argued. But for the money we pay him, Saga's goal record was ****e last season.

 

Putting goals to one side Saga's all round game is poor IMO. I've never seen any striker give the ball away so cheaply so often in all my days.

 

Before anyone responds with `great workrate' I say ********.

[Minsk]

Doesn't really tell the story. For a start many of Saga's sub appearances were less than 10 minutes.

 

Colceshter, home - Came on with 30s of injury time left.

Ipswich, away - Came on in the 88th minute.

 

If we take the average length of time he was on the pitch for those sub appearances as 15 mins. 16 sub appearances works out roughly as 3 full games. That takes his total to 17 for the season.

 

If you take into account that DMG seems to have some God-given right to be on the pitch (22 starts, 1 sub and how many times can you remember him being taken off?) and the fact that 2 of those goals came in a League Cup tie against Exeter another was a penalty... he really isn't that good.

 

So...

 

DMG - 4 goals (3 from open play) in 22 full League games

Saga - 3 goals (4, but for some reason nobody counts his goal at PNE) in 17 Full League Games.

 

If any of that is unfair, please explain how.

 

Absolutely spot on Arizona!

 

My best 11 (hopefully for the match against ManUre):

 

----------------------Davis-------------------------

Cork-----------Perry-----Pearce---------Skacel

------------Schneiderlin---Surman---------------

Lallana-------------------------------------Holmes

-----------------------Euell--------------------------

--------------------Saganowski--------------------

 

 

From those currently available and fit to play (i.e. for this coming Saturday):

 

----------------------Davis-------------------------

James-----------Perry-----Pearce--------Skacel

------------Schneiderlin---Cork-------------------

Lallana-------------------------------------Surman

-----------------------Euell--------------------------

--------------------DMG-----------------------------

[Saint Charlie]

DMG is the new scapegoat. He isnt that bad and has some good skill in him but his ideal role is playing in the hole off a bigger striker IMO.

 

You only need to see a couple of his goals to see the gy has talent. He is also under a lot of pressure, no other CCC teams main striker is a 21 year old!!

 

Give him a break.

 

As for Saga:

 

No pace

No strength

Can't finish

Not overly creative

Doesn't fit or try to adapt to our style

Doesn't work overly hard

On hugely inflated wages

Never settled anywhere in his career, has eventually fallen out of favour everywhere he has been.

Best spell for Saints was for 5-6 matches about 2 years ago.

 

Surely this speaks for itself....

Edited 1 December, 2008 by Saint Charlie

[Chez]

DMG is the new scapegoat. He isnt that bad and has some good skill in him but his ideal role is playing in the hole off a bigger striker IMO.

 

You only need to see a couple of his goals to see the gy has talent. He is also under a lot of pressure, no other CCC teams main striker is a 21 year old!!

 

Give him a break.

 

total wipping boy for fans that should know better by now. How many more players are going to be lambasted on here before they have had a real chance to show their true talent. Fuller, Jones, Davis, Davies, Surman...

[Legod Third Coming]

Absolutely spot on Arizona!

 

My best 11 (hopefully for the match against ManUre):

 

----------------------Davis-------------------------

Cork-----------Perry-----Pearce---------Skacel

------------Schneiderlin---Surman---------------

Lallana-------------------------------------Holmes

-----------------------Euell--------------------------

--------------------Saganowski--------------------

 

 

From those currently available and fit to play (i.e. for this coming Saturday):

 

----------------------Davis-------------------------

James-----------Perry-----Pearce--------Skacel

------------Schneiderlin---Cork-------------------

Lallana-------------------------------------Surman

-----------------------Euell--------------------------

--------------------DMG-----------------------------

 

I really like the look of that line-up (second and available this Saturday) - with BWP ready off the bench with Robertson and Patterson.

 

My only reservation is that we must move the ball quickly from back to front via the width of James and Skacel and DMG must hold the ball up - something he usually does ok but without much credit.

 

We must then ensure that on getting forward we do not leave DMG and Euell isolated.

 

Really nice looking spine though that team. I really like yong Pearce - he wants the ball and is a tough cookie - someone we need to keep!

[Andy_Porter]

total wipping boy for fans that should know better by now. How many more players are going to be lambasted on here before they have had a real chance to show their true talent. Fuller, Jones, Davis, Davies, Surman...

 

Once a few of the boo boys get on a players back then every seems to follow them like sheep. I don't know why some fans feel the need to single out one player for all the blame.

 

I don't see what McGoldrick has done so wrong this season, it's not his fault he's being asked to play upfront alone at 21 or his fault that we shipped of three international strikers on loan. He's doing a decent enough job, he needs to take a few more chances if he's to improve as a player and that should come with time on the pitch and a bit more confidence.

[Arizona]

DMG is the new scapegoat. He isnt that bad and has some good skill in him but his ideal role is playing in the hole off a bigger striker IMO.

 

You only need to see a couple of his goals to see the gy has talent. He is also under a lot of pressure, no other CCC teams main striker is a 21 year old!!

 

Give him a break.

 

As for Saga:

 

No pace - Quicker than John and Rasiak. No slower than Euell or DMG.

No strength - Disagree. Watch John's wonder goal against Hull for proof.

Can't finish - Completely untrue. He was just in a very uncreative team. Don't remember him missing any sitters. Unlike John and BWP (e.g. Burnley).

Not overly creative - Well, John can't score without him on the pitch.

Doesn't fit or try to adapt to our style - Has never played in our new style.

Doesn't work overly hard - If that's true then God help our other strikers

On hugely inflated wages - True.

Never settled anywhere in his career, has eventually fallen out of favour everywhere he has been. - He is only out of favour because of the cost.

Best spell for Saints was for 5-6 matches about 2 years ago. - Best spell for Saints was in 13 matches 2 years ago. Don't think he's been given more than 3 starts in a row since.

 

Surely this speaks for itself....

 

Not every player that gets criticised is a scapegoat. Sometimes it is purely because they aren't playing well. In DMGs case I think he gets a bit more because of his attitude and lack of effort when it comes to defending.

 

As for Saga, see above.

[saintrich]

I'll go for best realistic squad, seeing as we aren't likely to get Rasiak, Saga or John back IMO.

 

 

Davis

 

Cork

Perry

Pearce

Skacel

 

Lallana

Schneiderlin

Surman

Holmes

 

Euell

 

McGoldrick

 

 

Subs: Forecast, James, Wotton, BWP, Paterson.

[Andy_Porter]

Not every player that gets criticised is a scapegoat. Sometimes it is purely because they aren't playing well. In DMGs case I think he gets a bit more because of his attitude and lack of effort when it comes to defending.

 

As for Saga, see above.

 

 

I'm not sure how much you've seen of McGoldrick over the last couple of weeks but he has definatly upped his work rate since Wolves.

 

I know at the start of the season he wasn't working as hard as others and he has a bit of an un-interested look like he isn't motivated but he's really turned the corner in that department over the last 4-5 games.

 

He got booed when he came off against Plymouth and he worked as hard as anyone out there that game and he also came closest to scoring. He's being made out as a scapegoat by a lot of supporters.

[Arizona]

I'm not sure how much you've seen of McGoldrick over the last couple of weeks but he has definatly upped his work rate since Wolves.

 

I know at the start of the season he wasn't working as hard as others and he has a bit of an un-interested look like he isn't motivated but he's really turned the corner in that department over the last 4-5 games.

 

He got booed when he came off against Plymouth and he worked as hard as anyone out there that game and he also came closest to scoring. He's being made out as a scapegoat by a lot of supporters.

 

I think he has upped his work rate recently, but in the last few games he hasn't really looked like scoring either.

 

I'm not writing him off, Kenwyne and Beatts were both karp at his age too, but I don't think he is ready to be our number 1 striker just yet. Not his fault, but that doesn't make it right.

 

P.S. I didn't hear any booing against Plimuff in block 5. We weren't clapping very enthusiatically mind, where abouts where you sat?

[Andy_Porter]

Block 41, wasn't a lot of booing but certainly a fair few idiots giving him some stick.

 

I agree with your second sentence, he isn't anywhere near ready to be our main striker. If he was coming on for 30 minutes or playing alongside an experienced striker we would be in a fair better position and he would be learning his trade from another striker who could help show him the ropes. Hopefully Euells return will help him and the team.

[Saint_clark]

Has any reason actually been given for the purchase of Forecast??? Davis has said himself that he isn't going anywhere, and seeing as he doesn't have to accept any contract offered to him then I don't see why we should doubt his word. He turned his phone off during the last few days of the summer so no-one could offer him a deal, FFS.

[Saint_clark]

Maybe we should have a look at any out of contract/incredibly cheap brick sh*thouse strikers in January to play up front with McGoldrick in the hole. We need someone up there who can hold the ball up.

[Andy_Porter]

Has any reason actually been given for the purchase of Forecast??? Davis has said himself that he isn't going anywhere, and seeing as he doesn't have to accept any contract offered to him then I don't see why we should doubt his word. He turned his phone off during the last few days of the summer so no-one could offer him a deal, FFS.

 

It's almost as strange as the Pulis deal. Maybe Spurs forced him on us when we asked if we could take some of the Bale money early.

[Andy_Porter]

Maybe we should have a look at any out of contract/incredibly cheap brick sh*thouse strikers in January to play up front with McGoldrick in the hole. We need someone up there who can hold the ball up.

 

Ronaldo and Henrik Larrson are both out of contract.

 

We really could do with getting an experienced striker to help out, in January when Robertson and Pekhart go back we will be left with Euell, McGoldrick and Patterson. It would only take an injury or a suspension and we'd be in deep ****.

 

I'm sure there must be someone willing to come here on loan or a short term contract, Healy is at Sunderland and hasn't played a minute yet. Keane keeps going on about trimming him squad, he would be a decent loan if we could agree a deal with Sunderland.

[Arizona]

Maybe we should have a look at any out of contract/incredibly cheap brick sh*thouse strikers in January to play up front with McGoldrick in the hole. We need someone up there who can hold the ball up.

 

We tried that last season with Vincent Pericard. Let's not go there again.

[Chez]

We really could do with getting an experienced striker to help out, in January when Robertson and Pekhart go back we will be left with Euell, McGoldrick and Patterson. It would only take an injury or a suspension and we'd be in deep ****.

no we won't. Dobie will be back as will John. If we are lucky and we can offload both then we'll get another loan in. Jan might even keep Pakhard and Robertson (hope not).

[Andy_Porter]

Why do you keep calling him Dobie?

[krissyboy31]

DMG is the new scapegoat. He isnt that bad and has some good skill in him but his ideal role is playing in the hole off a bigger striker IMO.

 

You only need to see a couple of his goals to see the gy has talent. He is also under a lot of pressure, no other CCC teams main striker is a 21 year old!!

 

Give him a break.

 

TBH, for a player that gets picked week in week out, we cut him too much slack. As for 21 year old strikers in the CCC, anyone who was at KC Stadium and saw Fraizer Campbell's performance against us (albeit last season) would beg to differ. DMG will never be capable of that standard.

[Minsk]

I really like the look of that line-up (second and available this Saturday) - with BWP ready off the bench with Robertson and Patterson.

 

My only reservation is that we must move the ball quickly from back to front via the width of James and Skacel and DMG must hold the ball up - something he usually does ok but without much credit.

 

We must then ensure that on getting forward we do not leave DMG and Euell isolated.

 

Really nice looking spine though that team. I really like yong Pearce - he wants the ball and is a tough cookie - someone we need to keep!

 

I hope Jan agrees with us!

 

[Danny R]

Once a few of the boo boys get on a players back then every seems to follow them like sheep. I don't know why some fans feel the need to single out one player for all the blame.

 

I don't see what McGoldrick has done so wrong this season, it's not his fault he's being asked to play upfront alone at 21 or his fault that we shipped of three international strikers on loan. He's doing a decent enough job, he needs to take a few more chances if he's to improve as a player and that should come with time on the pitch and a bit more confidence.

 

It's insane. At the Reading game he had a stormer, some of his touches/build up were class but nobody said anything.Someone on here even gave him 3 out of 10! He is CLEARLY good enough, sheep at their most sheepish.

[Andy_Porter]

TBH, for a player that gets picked week in week out, we cut him too much slack. As for 21 year old strikers in the CCC, anyone who was at KC Stadium and saw Fraizer Campbell's performance against us (albeit last season) would beg to differ. DMG will never be capable of that standard.

 

Fraizer Campbell is an under21 international from Uniteds accademy, Hull offered 7m for him in the summer and Man United declined. He also played upfront with some experienced strikers in Widnass and Folan.

 

He's a premiership class player, we don't need players to be that good, we need players who are good enough for the bottom half of the CCC since we're a bottom half CCC side.

 

It's like saying Surman is useless because he isn't as good as Cork.

[Andy_Porter]

It's insane. At the Reading game he had a stormer, some of his touches/build up were class but nobody said anything.Someone on here even gave him 3 out of 10! He is CLEARLY good enough, sheep at their most sheepish.

 

I reckon if he got injured for a few games people would realise he's not half as bad as they think.

[a1ex2001]

Looking at these best 11's is a real eye opener, most of these players have only been in our first team for less than a season! The rate of player turn over since relegation is frightening, anyone know how many players have actually worn the saints shirt since that dreaded day?

[krissyboy31]

Fraizer Campbell is an under21 international from Uniteds accademy, Hull offered 7m for him in the summer and Man United declined. He also played upfront with some experienced strikers in Widnass and Folan.

 

He's a premiership class player, we don't need players to be that good, we need players who are good enough for the bottom half of the CCC since we're a bottom half CCC side.

 

It's like saying Surman is useless because he isn't as good as Cork.

 

Campbell has only just made his U21 debut, since he's been at Spurs. Before last season he had no experience playing in the English leagues, he had spent 1 season playing in Belgium for Royal Antwerp. I'll give you he played with Folan but Windass hardly played, he would invariably come off the bench and replace the aforementioned Campbell for the last 10 minutes. And, when Campbell was signed by Hull City, where were they? Oh yes, bottom half of CCC. So are you saying are 'fantastic academy' is there to produce us bottom half CCC players? If so, then your right DMG is probably a good enough player.

[ottery st mary]

Instead of perservering with our own youth if you have no money to bring in the right experience to supplement our youth, we brought in too many lesser youngsters like Robertson, Smith, Forecast and that old hand, Pulis. Jury still out on Pulis.

But as I said wasted money when are youth are as good and in most cases better than the above mentioned stars.

We discarded Thomson, White, Patterson and the like too quickly to be replaced with rubbish.

[Andy_Porter]

Campbell has only just made his U21 debut, since he's been at Spurs. Before last season he had no experience playing in the English leagues, he had spent 1 season playing in Belgium for Royal Antwerp. I'll give you he played with Folan but Windass hardly played, he would invariably come off the bench and replace the aforementioned Campbell for the last 10 minutes. And, when Campbell was signed by Hull City, where were they? Oh yes, bottom half of CCC. So are you saying are 'fantastic academy' is there to produce us bottom half CCC players? If so, then your right DMG is probably a good enough player.

 

Well we can't produce Lallanas, Bales and Walcotts everytime. There will always be a few that get through who aren't going to ever be good enough for the Premiership but will be fine in the CCC, the likes of McGoldrick, Best, Lancashire, Gillett etc.

 

I'm not really sure what you're on about with the first part either, Campbell is clearly a much better player than McGoldrick. That doesn't mean McGoldrick isn't good enough for us though.

 

Hull obviously struck lucky getting such a quality youngster on loan from a top four team, just like we have with Cork and Wolves have with Mancienne.

[Andy_Porter]

Instead of perservering with our own youth if you have no money to bring in the right experience to supplement our youth, we brought in too many lesser youngsters like Robertson, Smith, Forecast and that old hand, Pulis. Jury still out on Pulis.

But as I said wasted money when are youth are as good and in most cases better than the above mentioned stars.

We discarded Thomson, White, Patterson and the like too quickly to be replaced with rubbish.

 

Would be interesting to know how much of our wage budget is wasted on Forecast, Pulis, Pekhart and Smith. Wasted signings there really, would have been better off spending all there wages together on a decent loanee.

[John B]

Would be interesting to know how much of our wage budget is wasted on Forecast, Pulis, Pekhart and Smith. Wasted signings there really, would have been better off spending all there wages together on a decent loanee.

 

I thought Pekhart was going to be a good loanee.

[ottery st mary]

I agree with john that Pekhart bore the look of a good loanee from film I saw.

But then again like Andy Porter I would rather have seen the group of loanees fees/wages on a more substantial loanee or two than gambling on untried loanees as described...

There seemed to be more substance to Cork, Pearce, Spiderman and even possibly Gasmi..Who like Pulis no final decision by the fans or training staff.

 

My point is and always will be ..Yes the odd gamble ie Boyle but most of ours were not worth the cost over a more substantial loan which the side needed/needs.

[SB]

Whats the subject of this thread again?

[ottery st mary]

Whats the subject of this thread again?

 

Sorry, SB, just trying to sort out one or two of the loanees and the youngsters to come to an opinion of our best eleven..At the moment I keep putting Terry Paine and Ron Davies in my eleven with any other 9 loanees.

 

I will try harder.

[ottery st mary]

Out of curiosity what is your best eleven SB?

[SuperMikey]

Best XII out of our team (including injured/on loan players)

 

-------------Davis--------------

Thomas--Perry--Pearce--Surman

---------Cork---Morgan---------

Lallana-------------------Holmes

---------Saga--John------------

 

Subs: Bart, Svensson, Skacel, BWP, DMG

 

 

I'd love it if we were putting out a team like this in January (permitting the renewal of Cork and Pearce's loans and the expiry of Saga and John's). I think that, with a team like this, we could achieve a mid-table (10th-16th) position at the end of the season. The defence looks good to me, i'd prefer to play Surman at left-back because of the attacking capabilities he has, and Skacel has looked a little vulnerable at left back and I feel should be playing in a more attacking position. Perry and Pearce have looked like a good partnership when they've played together in the centre, and Thomas is a strong defender with good leadership qualities who could help sturdy the defence.

 

I feel that Cork and Schneiderlin would work well in the middle of midfield together, playing off each other. They both seem to be quite creative too, and as they can also both play as centre backs, they ought to be a good first line of defence against attacks. Holmes really impressed me with his form at the start of the season, he seemed like a really bright prospect and hopefully he can carry on that form when he comes back in around 2 weeks' (according to the OS) time. Lallana, who I feel works better as a central attacking midfielder, would play on the right wing as he has to be a dead cert in the starting lineup.

 

Saga and John up front then. Saga doesn't have the best goalscoring record, but he was quite a creative force last season, laying on quite a few goals for SJ and others. His work rate is very good, which I think should get him a place in the team, as lazy strikers (McGoldrick anyone?) aren't generally beneficial to a team. SJ's goals kept us up last season, and although he hasn't played much at all this season, his loan to Bristol City (providing he plays a bit more often) could help him regain his goalscoring form.

 

That team is, of course, a 'dream team'. That team will probably never be played this season, because of astronomical appearance fees etc. and Saga will probably be shipped off on loan again when his loan to Aalborg expires. But I can always dream can't I?

[Andy_Porter]

I've gone for Euell for experience in the final third and the fact he gets in the box a lot. We need that as Holmes has excellent delivery but all too often we don't have someone supporting McGoldrick in the box. BWP again because he tends to get himself in scoring positions. Yes he can be crap, yes he misses a lot, but he gets involved more than some other options. Wouldn't mind Thomson getting a go though. And if Saga came back, I'd have him play there. Cork and Morgan is by far the most solid centre we could have, and they compliment each other very well. They can both pass, both tackle and Cork being on the right of centre can help out James. Skacel and Holmes both playing would give us fantastic balance and delivery from the left flank. I really don't think we're far from having a good team.

 

Just a matter of experience and a bit of cover in a few key areas IMO. Certainly not far from being a solid team in this league.