shurlock Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 MP usually spends a lot of time on the touchline in league games and we've not turned in a performance like that. Coincidence? Actually it's noticeable he hasn't been doing it much of late - whether in the cup or the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 You seem to be confusing accountability and affinity. Good question - let me try and explain Lowe had to be accountable. It would be nice to think our owners had affinity. Dunno if that helps but I sort of get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I see the morons are crawling out of the woodwork again. We really do have some proper planks among our fans... And some of them think the manager should pay them back the ticket money out of his own pocket. No...it's true I tell you!!!!! Wet ****ing pansies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This will irk some posters for sure. But I believe we had most accountability for many a year when Lowe was in charge and say what you like about the guy but he would take the time to chat with fans if they approached him and explain why some decisions were being made. The whole idea of 'we got our club back' when the idiots took over (wilde and co) didn't end up too well did it? I, for one, am glad we have the Liebherrs and think the 'pipe dream' of a club for the fans is long since gone. Just can't happen in this day and age and not convinced it has ever been the case. Look at the mob down the road to see how a 'fans' club doesn't actually really mean that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 MP usually spends a lot of time on the touchline in league games and we've not turned in a performance like that. Coincidence? Dont ever see him screaming much. And I see a lot of gallery pictures of him by the sideline yesterday. Any difference from the norm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 This is a bit over the top. Whilst it would be nice to think that clubs represent fans and whomever owns them are just custodians, the reality is that ship sailed a long time ago when the sport of football became money orientated. Saints have adapted to be a part of that. We weren't complaining when we were spending millions on players. We weren't complaining when we had plans for a new £30m training complex approved. We weren't complaining when our owners kindly wrote off a £40m investment which helped us go from the bottom of League 1 to the Top 8 of the Premier League. We aren't owed an explanation for yesterday, and the club should never be accountable to the fans. The club will realise soon enough if the fans are unhappy and I guarantee they are aware of the fan reaction. However, I don't want them to come out and respond to it because it sets a dangerous precedent. The club need to be strong and stick to what they believe they should be doing. They haven't done badly at all and whilst there have been bumps along the way they have been pretty driven at getting better and done a good job of that. As a fan I am gutted about yesterday, I cannot fathom why we didn't give it a better shot. From the team selection right through to the general performance of those who did play it felt like a massive opportunity scorned for a reason that doesn't appear logical to me. But after a few days I will get over it and we move onto the next game. But lets not allow this one thing to undermine everything that has been achieved this season. We had a similar reaction in the Capital One Cup (although admittedly it was not as big) and that was soon forgot about after we got a few results in the league afterwards to push ourselves up the table. There is a bit of pressure on the West Ham game now. Lose or even draw that and people will point to this weekend. Win it and people start looking at how some of the teams above us in the table get that little bit closer. Sensible response - thank you for talking like a real fan. But this weekend (and this is why I started this thread) for the first time I found myself asking "actually what is the point"? And then I realised there is none because no one of any importance at the club really cares. The guys who run the media section like Jordan Sibley and Simon Williams care but the people they answer to don't. Since we have had a temporary CEO we have heard nothing, but there again my point is "why should we think we are entitled to hear anything in the first place". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Dont ever see him screaming much. And I see a lot of gallery pictures of him by the sideline yesterday. Any difference from the norm? Yeah big difference, refusing to speak to the press, why? Bringing on an 18 year old for his debut and taking off our most creative player when 0-1 down. Is that what he does in league games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 So why did Pochettino replace Lallana (always a goal threat) with McQueen with 10 mins to go when there was only one goal in it. And why was Gallagher played on the Friday night in a U21 game when he could more usefully be employed at the SoL? Sorry mate - I think us fans are being played like pawns and we all argue on here like our future depends on it but the reality is - no one is really listening and they never will Lallana didn´t do very much during 83 minutes so maybe it was therefor or was he running out of steam perhaps from playing 3 games in 8 days? Regarding Gallagher I dont know but I´m sure that with everything that has happened to the boy the last few weeks the club made the judgement that this was best for him. Maybe he had to be part of funeral arraignments or anything else surrounding his fathers death....who knows but I will never speculate that he should be involved with the team this weekend if the club has decided it was best for him to stay at home.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I see the morons are crawling out of the woodwork again. We lost one game in the cup. Yeah, we had a decent chance of getting to the final, but the team we put out should have won - the loss was down to a really poor performance and missing some gilt-edged chances. It's f*cking laughable that people think Poch should make a public apology, and even more laughable to suggest that a squad rotation and a defeat means that our owners don't give a f*ck about the fans at all. We really do have some proper planks among our fans... Including you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 As fans, we can hardly complain about what has happened to us recently. Not sure what difference Ownership makes to team selection and performances. Best thing KL can do is back the Manager with a new contract and leave him to continue the excellent job that he is doing and us fans to enjoy what has, on the whole, been our best top flight season in 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Good question - let me try and explain Lowe had to be accountable. It would be nice to think our owners had affinity. Dunno if that helps but I sort of get it Of course, accountability comes in many shapes and sizes. Often it just means more short-term pressures - only need to look at how many PLCs are at the beck and call of the City to appreciate these dysfunctions. In fact, many companies are taken private precisely to escape this form of 'accountability'. Whatever accountability is lost is more than made up by the ability of management to invest and build for the long haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Yeah big difference, refusing to speak to the press, why? Bringing on an 18 year old for his debut and taking off our most creative player when 0-1 down. Is that what he does in league games? Cause the management has done that for every cup game and I think it´s quite laughable to suggest that a thing like that would affect the players.... Lallana has been taken off in league games when we were trailing yes. But just because things dont happen in other games, why cant they happen in a game like yesterday? Not all games are played and managed the same way, why should yesterday be any different...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Lallana didn´t do very much during 83 minutes so maybe it was therefor or was he running out of steam perhaps from playing 3 games in 8 days? Regarding Gallagher I dont know but I´m sure that with everything that has happened to the boy the last few weeks the club made the judgement that this was best for him. Maybe he had to be part of funeral arraignments or anything else surrounding his fathers death....who knows but I will never speculate that he should be involved with the team this weekend if the club has decided it was best for him to stay at home.... Yea that's what I thought but it is still a bit strange that he played 90 mins on the Friday night when he could have gone to the NE. But I accept there could have been a reason. Again if there was why not tell us? Surely this sort of info is not off limits? We have become so subservient to the club's decision on what is right for us to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Sensible response - thank you for talking like a real fan. But this weekend (and this is why I started this thread) for the first time I found myself asking "actually what is the point"? And then I realised there is none because no one of any importance at the club really cares. The guys who run the media section like Jordan Sibley and Simon Williams care but the people they answer to don't. Since we have had a temporary CEO we have heard nothing, but there again my point is "why should we think we are entitled to hear anything in the first place". Hear what? I'm not really sure what you're asking for. Cortese has been gone a month, we've had a statement from Kat, a new CEO appointed for the interim, been quite a few articles on the OS, more so than when Cortese was here, what do you want to hear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Look at the gates for our cup matches over the past few seasons at reduced prices from those charged for league game. Then look at the gates for league games over the same period at the higher prices. Now tell me what the fans priorities are using those statistics! We are all upset we lost in the cup. The team put out should have been good enough to beat Sunderland. They didn't because too many of our regulars failed to reach the standards we have come to expect. Don't blame the owner. She does not pick the team. Just a bad day in the office against a club our first team could not beat at home earlier in the season. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Cause the management has done that for every cup game and I think it´s quite laughable to suggest that a thing like that would affect the players.... Lallana has been taken off in league games when we were trailing yes. But just because things dont happen in other games, why cant they happen in a game like yesterday? Not all games are played and managed the same way, why should yesterday be any different...? So you're saying if a manager has an apathetic approach to a game then it won't affect the players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 As fans, we can hardly complain about what has happened to us recently. Not sure what difference Ownership makes to team selection and performances. Best thing KL can do is back the Manager with a new contract and leave him to continue the excellent job that he is doing and us fans to enjoy what has, on the whole, been our best top flight season in 20 years. Saint Charlie, I truly rate MP and want to see him get a new contract but I will be very surprised if he is still here a year from now. Why do I think that? Because this club is run now as a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 So you're saying if a manager has an apathetic approach to a game then it won't affect the players? As I said, I dont see that it was apathetic or any different to any league game. He was by the sideline at times, sat down at times and giving instructions to players at times. Just like any other game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Saint Charlie, I truly rate MP and want to see him get a new contract but I will be very surprised if he is still here a year from now. Why do I think that? Because this club is run now as a business. It has been for years. It was under NC. The summer will be crucial to see what the true aims are, but generally people want businesses to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Saint Charlie, I truly rate MP and want to see him get a new contract but I will be very surprised if he is still here a year from now. Why do I think that? Because this club is run now as a business. Just like every other club, when you chase fans dreams you end up like Leeds United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Of course, accountability comes in many shapes and sizes. Often it just means more short-term pressures - only need to look at how many PLCs are at the beck and call of the City to appreciate these dysfunctions. In fact, many companies are taken private precisely to escape this form of 'accountability'. Whatever accountability is lost is more than made up by the ability of management to invest and build for the long haul. Good point but you are now equating SFC with businesses in the City. Actually I think you are right which is where I came in on the original post. We are not a football team we are a business who has a football team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 As I said, I dont see that it was apathetic or any different to any league game. He was by the sideline at times, sat down at times and giving instructions to players at times. Just like any other game. Why take off your most creative player and give a kid a debut when chasing a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfield Saint Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 It's all a bit of an overreaction isnt it? We dont know the strategy or the goals currently in place but we do know that the owners and management who are being derided for not winning a game in the FA Cup have a team playing what was claimed (on here) to be playing the best ever football by a Saints team and have implemented an academy policy which garnishes widespread praise including being lauded as the model to save the English game. This has including a multimillion £ investment to improve the facility and a stated aim to have a minimum number of academy players in the first team. If the FA Cup is such a wonderful ambition then why were there only 17k at the game? Has there been a full attendance for any FA Cup game this season? It may be that the club's strategy is to finish as high as possible in order to create a platform to attract better players and therefore push on from there? It may be that the owners want the highest position to enable an optimal sale? One thing seems to be clear though in that the only people putting their money in is the owners and for the life of me I cannot see why their interests would not be aligned with that of their client base? Bull***t walks as they say and these guys have a significant amount at risk so how about having a little tolerance and trust - I think their efforts over the last five years have earned at least this/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 It has been for years. It was under NC. The summer will be crucial to see what the true aims are, but generally people want businesses to succeed. Ok let's see what happens this summer, but don't hold your breath. Someone in a very high up official position at SMS is forecasting we will be sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Sorry mate - I think us fans are being played like pawns That is histrionic bulls**t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Why take off your most creative player and give a kid a debut when chasing a game? Bad performance? Fatigue? I dont buy that it was because club or manager didn´t care about the game. If it was SO, why did our most creative player start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 (edited) Good point but you are now equating SFC with businesses in the City. Actually I think you are right which is where I came in on the original post. We are not a football team we are a business who has a football team. But that's what we were as a PLC -of course, a disproportionate number of shareholders would have been 'fans' relative to other PLCs, though their shareholdings as a whole would have been pretty small. Edited 16 February, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Bad performance? Fatigue? I dont buy that it was because club or manager didn´t care about the game. If it was SO, why did our most creative player start? Lallana didn't play badly. It just doesn't add up why you would take off your best player and bring a kid on who hasn't played a minute of first team football on when you're trying to stay in the FA cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Hey Fitzhugh Fella why don't you put down the big sign saying 'LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, PLEASE' and have a reality check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 But that's what we were as a PLC -of course, a disproportionate number of shareholders would have been 'fans', though their shareholdings as a whole would have been pretty small. Yea I guess it all started when Lowe helped us get on to the stock exchange. But in fairness to him he was only doing what had to be done. That was the day the "music died". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Lallana didn't play badly. It just doesn't add up why you would take off your best player and bring a kid on who hasn't played a minute of first team football on when you're trying to stay in the FA cup. Yep. Was a giant middle finger to all if us that travelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Good point but you are now equating SFC with businesses in the City. Actually I think you are right which is where I came in on the original post. We are not a football team we are a business who has a football team. But what else can it be but a football club run as a business? Income from TV rights themselves are so huge that I just can't see how they could be entrusted to a fan-on-the-board type of democracy. As to whether PLC status gives more accountability, I'd rather measure it by the accountability of results - and Lowe et al took us from the Prem to League 1 and the Liebherrs took us from League 1 to the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Lallana didn't play badly. It just doesn't add up why you would take off your best player and bring a kid on who hasn't played a minute of first team football on when you're trying to stay in the FA cup. Agree- when you put it like that, it hammers home that the management of our club really weren't too fussed about us exiting the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Hey Fitzhugh Fella why don't you put down the big sign saying 'LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, PLEASE' and have a reality check. Maybe you should do the same? But hold on you are anonymous so what would be the point? I bet that really ****s you off. You want attention but you can't get it because... hold on you are too frightened. How about you say it to my face Duncan@duncanholley.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swannymere Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Maybe you should do the same? But hold on you are anonymous so what would be the point? I bet that really ****s you off. You want attention but you can't get it because... hold on you are too frightened. How about you say it to my face Duncan@duncanholley.co.uk I'm simply not rising to the bait, you've had enough attention already today. Bugger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I'm simply not rising to the bait, you've had enough attention already today. Bugger. You are frit. Go on e mail me, let's talk this through with both of us knowing who we are talking to- or do you want to keep hiding? Genuine question. You views are **** without a name behind them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 But what else can it be but a football club run as a business? Income from TV rights themselves are so huge that I just can't see how they could be entrusted to a fan-on-the-board type of democracy. As to whether PLC status gives more accountability, I'd rather measure it by the accountability of results - and Lowe et al took us from the Prem to League 1 and the Liebherrs took us from League 1 to the Prem. Again you make a fair point and maybe it is the wider picture I should be criticising. But apologies, this is a Saints forum and I was trying to keep it on topic after yesterday, but I agree the malaise is not a local one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Lallana didn't play badly. It just doesn't add up why you would take off your best player and bring a kid on who hasn't played a minute of first team football on when you're trying to stay in the FA cup. Well put it this way, it wasn´t one of his better performances this season imo. And that sub doesn´t change the basics of the game that it was more down to players performance rather than poor selections since we rotated very minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Ok let's see what happens this summer, but don't hold your breath. Someone in a very high up official position at SMS is forecasting we will be sold We very possibly will be sold. But if KL does want to own the club then thats not a bad thing necessarily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 That is histrionic bulls**t. And you get your evidence from where? Seriously I am interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Well put it this way, it wasn´t one of his better performances this season imo. And that sub doesn´t change the basics of the game that it was more down to players performance rather than poor selections since we rotated very minimal. What message did that substitution send out to the team and fans? It seems to be only you struggling with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 We very possibly will be sold. But if KL does want to own the club then thats not a bad thing necessarily? I agree SC, but no one wants to be owned by someone who is half-hearted or can't make up their mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 And you get your evidence from where? Seriously I am interested. You throwing a hissy fit. We are all mighty pi**ed off about yesterday but you've gone down the Baz/Alpine/Glasgow route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 What message did that substitution send out to the team and fans? It seems to be only you struggling with this. Well fans are fickle and quite egoistic to only think of now now now, managers has to think in other ways and we still dont know anything about his physical status. What the team thinks, well you tell me cause I haven´t seen or heard anything but that they think their own performance were well below par...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 I agree SC, but no one wants to be owned by someone who is half-hearted or can't make up their mind? So she needs to decide what she wants. If she sells then whoever buys will do so because they want to own the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Maybe you should do the same? But hold on you are anonymous so what would be the point? I bet that really ****s you off. You want attention but you can't get it because... hold on you are too frightened. How about you say it to my face Duncan@duncanholley.co.uk Email is not quite "saying it to your face"......or are you going for Skype or summat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Unbelievable. Wasn't like any league game I've seen. If you weakened your side by choice and refuse to do interviews you're sending out a very clear message to your team. I have no doubt at all that players like Lambert, Lallana, Cork, JRod etc would love to get to a cup final, even a semi final. Lallana and Lambert in particular looked really frustrated throughout the game and it didn't help their form one bit. The interviews annoy me more. Just treating a great competition like a reserve league. There were 2 (TWO) players that could be considered as rested. (one if Boruc was ill as some reports have said). Fonte and JRod not 100% fit. Cork = Wanyama. If the players fell frustrated it was because they performed like sh*t, and that is what all of them has been saying in all interviews afterwards.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 The fans should vote on team selection and substitutions made during games. We need our voices heard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 16 February, 2014 Author Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Look at the gates for our cup matches over the past few seasons at reduced prices from those charged for league game. Then look at the gates for league games over the same period at the higher prices. Now tell me what the fans priorities are using those statistics! We are all upset we lost in the cup. The team put out should have been good enough to beat Sunderland. They didn't because too many of our regulars failed to reach the standards we have come to expect. Don't blame the owner. She does not pick the team. Just a bad day in the office against a club our first team could not beat at home earlier in the season. It happens. Good point re gates. But why did MP replace AL with a rookie with 10mins to go? That to me said it all Ron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 16 February, 2014 Share Posted 16 February, 2014 Well fans are fickle and quite egoistic to only think of now now now, managers has to think in other ways and we still dont know anything about his physical status. What the team thinks, well you tell me cause I haven´t seen or heard anything but that they think their own performance were well below par...? Like I said, just you struggling with it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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