NickG Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 as one of the more positive/optimistic posters I was willing to see some good in Jan and the work he has tried to do. Think he is a decent guy, and maybe with a couple of lucky home wins to break the poor streak and take the pressure off he could have done better. As I walked into the ground yesterday and heard the team I felt we would do ok. Sure we didn't have players of yester-year, or even Rasiak, John etc but we had; very good keeper decent pairing at CB a signed LB who although I wasn't expecting great things was at least a LB Saga back We came off a away win and had a real chance to move on. What I saw was, yet again the team starting very well and then after failing to get an early goal looking under pressure and increasingly panicing. This can only get worse with each game we fail to win at home. I am not keen on continual management changes. Nor changing without being able to get someone better in (why I wanted GB to stay). However, my concern is the team have got into a rut and needs a significant change to reignite them and the supporters. A change in boardroom is looking very very unlikely. The only other changes that could do this would be a big name signing -not going to happen. Or a new manager. Without going over old arguments of Jan v NP, whether he should have been appointed etc, but we have all seen loads of good managers being sacked as their team gets into a rut then go onto get success elsewhere -sometimes it needs that kick. I know teams have been relegated, stuck with managers to then do well - and I do admire this way of working. But yesterday, seeing two players whistling to the bench then shrugging their shoulders as they didn't know what to do, I have changed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 much the same thoughts although I have always been sceptical about Jan.He has to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 If Crouch had volunteered £2m recently if matched by Lowe and Wilde. What if he was put in charge - we sacked Lowe and JP - and he used that £2m to: 1. Pay for a decent unemployed manager. 2. Pay the wages of our men on loan and return all the quality back to SMS. Can this be done? Could this be the best £2m ever spent in the history of the Club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I,m breaking my boycott tomorrow. If we lose i'm up for a protest outside the reception and needless to say i'll be joining in the anti lowe chants. I don't sit million miles from him -will let you know if they are audible! Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 my thoughts entirely. but who would want to come to manage the club with the current board in place . It will be somebody who is desparate for work and not somebody who really wants to progress their managerial career sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I know teams have been relegated, stuck with managers to then do well - and I do admire this way of working. But yesterday, seeing two players whistling to the bench then shrugging their shoulders as they didn't know what to do, I have changed my mind. I have felt for sometime that JP on the bench was irrevlevent. I have posted it so many times. He appears clueless and seems to rely on a spark from elsewhere to make changes. No doubt at all - the kids had no idea what to do and under JP have lost their fight. Change is not important it is absolutely CRITICAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 my thoughts entirely. but who would want to come to manage the club with the current board in place . It will be somebody who is desparate for work and not somebody who really wants to progress their managerial career sadly Not if paid a decent salary with a bonus for keeping us up. I think we could attract someone. This team with belief and organisation MIGHT survive. MIGHT. It WILL relegate otherwise - probably in early April. There is simply no choice. JP MUST be sacked along with his Director of Football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4INT Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 as one of the more positive/optimistic posters I was willing to see some good in Jan and the work he has tried to do. Think he is a decent guy, and maybe with a couple of lucky home wins to break the poor streak and take the pressure off he could have done better. As I walked into the ground yesterday and heard the team I felt we would do ok. Sure we didn't have players of yester-year, or even Rasiak, John etc but we had; very good keeper decent pairing at CB a signed LB who although I wasn't expecting great things was at least a LB Saga back We came off a away win and had a real chance to move on. What I saw was, yet again the team starting very well and then after failing to get an early goal looking under pressure and increasingly panicing. This can only get worse with each game we fail to win at home. I am not keen on continual management changes. Nor changing without being able to get someone better in (why I wanted GB to stay). However, my concern is the team have got into a rut and needs a significant change to reignite them and the supporters. A change in boardroom is looking very very unlikely. The only other changes that could do this would be a big name signing -not going to happen. Or a new manager. Without going over old arguments of Jan v NP, whether he should have been appointed etc, but we have all seen loads of good managers being sacked as their team gets into a rut then go onto get success elsewhere -sometimes it needs that kick. I know teams have been relegated, stuck with managers to then do well - and I do admire this way of working. But yesterday, seeing two players whistling to the bench then shrugging their shoulders as they didn't know what to do, I have changed my mind. I agree with everything you say. For the first time ever, I'm not saying stick with the incumbent (I've always seen constant chopping and changing of managers as very detrimental). I'm not even particularly anti-Lowe, I think he becomes somewhat of a scapegoat. But your match summary is what I saw, and I agree with your conclusions. We have to get someone new in, and a striker back from loan; I just pray that we can afford it. I'm not that bothered whether or not Lowe stays, I think he's doing a decent job financially and is probably stabalising something that was looking pretty awful, then again, with the rest of the fan-base so against him I don't know what to think any more. However, I'm only 17 and have not seen the glory days that so many have, they have seen such a big fall and I have not, they probably know better than I do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Not if paid a decent salary with a bonus for keeping us up. I think we could attract someone. This team with belief and organisation MIGHT survive. MIGHT. It WILL relegate otherwise - probably in early April. There is simply no choice. JP MUST be sacked along with his Director of Football. What have virtually all of the possible replacement managers suggested got in common? They have failed and been sacked from their previous clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 as one of the more positive/optimistic posters I was willing to see some good in Jan and the work he has tried to do. Think he is a decent guy, and maybe with a couple of lucky home wins to break the poor streak and take the pressure off he could have done better. As I walked into the ground yesterday and heard the team I felt we would do ok. Sure we didn't have players of yester-year, or even Rasiak, John etc but we had; very good keeper decent pairing at CB a signed LB who although I wasn't expecting great things was at least a LB Saga back We came off a away win and had a real chance to move on. What I saw was, yet again the team starting very well and then after failing to get an early goal looking under pressure and increasingly panicing. This can only get worse with each game we fail to win at home. I am not keen on continual management changes. Nor changing without being able to get someone better in (why I wanted GB to stay). However, my concern is the team have got into a rut and needs a significant change to reignite them and the supporters. A change in boardroom is looking very very unlikely. The only other changes that could do this would be a big name signing -not going to happen. Or a new manager. Without going over old arguments of Jan v NP, whether he should have been appointed etc, but we have all seen loads of good managers being sacked as their team gets into a rut then go onto get success elsewhere -sometimes it needs that kick. I know teams have been relegated, stuck with managers to then do well - and I do admire this way of working. But yesterday, seeing two players whistling to the bench then shrugging their shoulders as they didn't know what to do, I have changed my mind. Almost word for word what I think Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 But yesterday, seeing two players whistling to the bench then shrugging their shoulders as they didn't know what to do, I have changed my mind. you WHAT..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLOTH EARS Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I am going to repeat what I have said on here before. I wholeheartedly agree that Portvliet is not up to the job and he needs to go BUT so does Lowe and Wilde. and it doesn't stop there Lowe, Askham etc and Wilde Have to sell their shares and sever links to the club FOR GOOD!!! If this does not happen then the club will continue to have major problems....changing a manager will simply be cosmetic, he would inherit a the same squad full of kids who a generally not up to it. He would have no money to put this right and he would have to work under an arrogant chairman who has a reputation for intereference in team affairs. So in my opinion you would not get a manager of any quality to come here anyway! Changing the manager will not get to the root of this clubs problems, which stem from it being a PLC and who owns the shares. A TOTALLY FRESH APPROACH is needed with FRESH FACES IN THE BOARDROOM! and PRESSURE needs to be put on Lowe, Askham & Wilde etc to SELL THEIR SHARES!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I am going to repeat what I have said on here before. I wholeheartedly agree that Portvliet is not up to the job and he needs to go BUT so does Lowe and Wilde. and it doesn't stop there Lowe, Askham etc and Wilde Have to sell their shares and sever links to the club FOR GOOD!!! If this does not happen then the club will continue to have major problems....changing a manager will simply be cosmetic, he would inherit a the same squad full of kids who a generally not up to it. He would have no money to put this right and he would have to work under an arrogant chairman who has a reputation for intereference in team affairs. So in my opinion you would not get a manager of any quality to come here anyway! Changing the manager will not get to the root of this clubs problems, which stem from it being a PLC and who owns the shares. A TOTALLY FRESH APPROACH is needed with FRESH FACES IN THE BOARDROOM! and PRESSURE needs to be put on Lowe, Askham & Wilde etc to SELL THEIR SHARES!!! That presupposes that someone wants to buy them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I agree with the OP, it is sadly time. It also makes Rupert's position impossible. On that basis and that alone I think it will be at least a week before anything changes, simply because the replacement must 1) Be the right man, with EXPERIENCE, that means behind the scenes discussions (ie interviews) because whatever ELSE happens the squad can't be left alone for one or two weeks in limbo 2) Be a man that will at least ease some of the discontent (it won't stop it until Lowe goes) 3) Will have to be financially supported somehow EITHER by new money OR the sale of a player (or two) Like I said before on another post, we may as well hang on to the rage, get a few rants out and then log back in here in a week or so. Unless of course JP wants to be able to keep some form of coaching career back in non-League football in Holland in which case he needs to do the honourable thing. Unfortunately I expect seeing as he is not on a big wage and he paid up his old contract, he may not be able to AFFORD to resign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 18 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Well? I thought of you, at 70 mins, when the chants started and I could hear them, I looked across to Lowe -and couldn't see him, so guess the answer was no they weren't audible to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 18 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 January, 2009 What have virtually all of the possible replacement managers suggested got in common? They have failed and been sacked from their previous clubs. always the way with managers; good ones at better clubs don't want to move down. good ones at similar level clubs don't want a move when doing well unless its a big step up few managers leave jobs for unemployment without being sacked So left with either failed managers elsewhere or manager from lower level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 What have virtually all of the possible replacement managers suggested got in common? They have failed and been sacked from their previous clubs. However I still think Dowie has an awful lot to offer and I think he has been unlucky to be dismissed by Charlton, Coventry and QPR. Also he has an affinity with the club and although not the most gifted of players was always one of the hardest working and most committed. I think he could work with Lowe (although I still think we need to see the back of Lowe before we can truly move on), as he's fairly open to alternative ideas. I'd like to see us act this week, sack JP and appoint Dowie. Was there ever a club that needed a bit of 'bouncebackability' more than ours...?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 18 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 18 January, 2009 did Dowie get some bad press over bizarre training methods and using his brother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Unlucky to be dismissed by THREE clubs? Dowie's star was on the wane a long time ago. Irrespective of who is wanted I suspect that the next manager wil be an internal appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Unlucky to be dismissed by THREE clubs? Dowie's star was on the wane a long time ago. Irrespective of who is wanted I suspect that the next manager wil be an internal appointment. And THAT will be the final nail in our coffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I thought of you, at 70 mins, when the chants started and I could hear them, I looked across to Lowe -and couldn't see him, so guess the answer was no they weren't audible to him! Lowey at his birthday bash in Scotland or was he also asking Mr Strachan or Mr Burley for advice? HELP!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docker-p Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Sadly, if Lowe does sack JP, he'll just promote Mark Wotte to the head coach role, and little will change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Unlucky to be dismissed by THREE clubs? Dowie's star was on the wane a long time ago. Irrespective of who is wanted I suspect that the next manager wil be an internal appointment. Lowe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 What have virtually all of the possible replacement managers suggested got in common? They have failed and been sacked from their previous clubs. ..and are all better prospects despite this! That's how bad JP is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Lowe? Woodward? He has been there all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Unlucky to be dismissed by THREE clubs? Dowie's star was on the wane a long time ago. Irrespective of who is wanted I suspect that the next manager wil be an internal appointment. God no! That nevers works, you just get more of the same with a lesser man. That would be suicide IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Woodward? He has been there all the time. I think the eye-gym would be irelevant at this stage in our season to be honest. No ta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 I think the eye-gym would be irelevant at this stage in our season to be honest. No ta. Only joking like saintwarwick putting Rupert up for manager... Well I hope he was joking......course he was.....well maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintwarwick Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Woodward? He has been there all the time. Deadwood more like it, we have plenty of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanh Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Got to agree with the OP. I decided after the Forest match that JP needs to go. The players look like they are technically competent but they have no confidence and more importantly are not organised enough to compete. For me the most important things that a manager brings is those two things that we are missing. He convinces the players that they can win and the sets them up in such a way to compete. JP sounds like a nice guy and says a lot of the right things. Personally I'm a fan of his formation, but he isn't bringing anything to the team on match day. There are so many decent CCC managers out of work at the moment - Dowie, Boothroyd, Pardew, Cotterill, Roeder. I'd take almost any of them - probably in that order of preference - over JP and trust them to organise the team and instil some believe in their own ability. Agreed to resolve the divisons in the club Lowe needs to go, but the top priority is to survive in the CCC this season and I'd happily put that battle on ice until the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Sadly, if Lowe does sack JP, he'll just promote Mark Wotte to the head coach role, and little will change. That is precisely what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S4INT Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 That is precisely what will happen. That couldn't be much worse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Deadwood more like it, we have plenty of that. At the club and on this site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 18 January, 2009 Share Posted 18 January, 2009 Time to give Simon Clifford another go. # Garforth Town are now up to the dizzy heights of 10th in the UniBond 1st Division North Soon be in the Premiership as Simon predicted when he was here with Sir Clive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 19 January, 2009 Share Posted 19 January, 2009 If Crouch had volunteered £2m recently if matched by Lowe and Wilde. What if he was put in charge - we sacked Lowe and JP - and he used that £2m to: 1. Pay for a decent unemployed manager. 2. Pay the wages of our men on loan and return all the quality back to SMS. Can this be done? Could this be the best £2m ever spent in the history of the Club? Not sure Crouch would put in mil - he did not before when he was here. I do think the caveat that Wilde and Lowe do teh same is a bit of bull... he knows they dont have thay kind of money splashing about, so he knows his two mil is safe. Also with the current situation and the banks in effect controling things, inject 2 mil and it wll be swallowed up imediately by the overdraft and then Barclays would reduce the limit by that amount to... not the answer I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 January, 2009 Share Posted 19 January, 2009 What have virtually all of the possible replacement managers suggested got in common? They have failed and been sacked from their previous clubs. It is the ultimate fate of every manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish fingers Posted 19 January, 2009 Share Posted 19 January, 2009 Time to give Simon Clifford another go. # Garforth Town are now up to the dizzy heights of 10th in the UniBond 1st Division North Soon be in the Premiership as Simon predicted when he was here with Sir Clive!! and they have signed Cafu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintDonkey Posted 19 January, 2009 Share Posted 19 January, 2009 Unlucky to be dismissed by THREE clubs? Dowie's star was on the wane a long time ago. Irrespective of who is wanted I suspect that the next manager wil be an internal appointment. Didn't he walk from Palace because he wanted to get a job up North near his family. Then got sued by Simon Jordan when 'up North' turned out to be Charlton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 January, 2009 his record is better than I remember. We just need something to make us, and player feel positive. Don't think Jan being replaced by Wotte, or Lowe being replaced by Crouch will do that. Needs a real feel good factor/fresh start. or some wins! Think that is why Saturday made everyone so low, we had draw against reading, then away win, a 6-pointer followed by some easier games -we could have ground out that feel good factor, by moving up a few places and building on confidence, but instead now another defeat and why will it be different next one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West End Saint Posted 19 January, 2009 Share Posted 19 January, 2009 I agree it is now past the time for change you have to know when enough is enough I have been patient and got behind Jan stayed as positive as possible 1 home league win mid Jan says it all for me lack of confidence and belief and maybe we havent had the rub of the green at home but I have had enough now I want action Rupert and Jan must go if we are to unite as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 19 January, 2009 Author Share Posted 19 January, 2009 and the home win is the first game I have missed for a few years, so I haven't even seen one win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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