Saints vs Burnley, Sheff Utd and Luton

[gio1saints]

Same stage (number of games as them) last season in the championship  : 

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/championship/league-table/2022-2023/date/20221022

[JRM]

It's interesting but QPR being top on 30 points at this point is the reminder that anything can happen, they ended up in a relegation battle. 

[Danbert]

3 minutes ago, JRM said:

It's interesting but QPR being top on 30 points at this point is the reminder that anything can happen, they ended up in a relegation battle. 

Indeed - West Brom in the relegation places too

[SW5 SAINT]

8 minutes ago, JRM said:

It's interesting but QPR being top on 30 points at this point is the reminder that anything can happen, they ended up in a relegation battle. 

and Reading only outside the playoff places on goal difference……!

[OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint]

Also interesting to see where those three clubs currently stand in the premiership. There's usually at least one promoted team that starts off ok but not this year.

[Pamplemousse]

54 minutes ago, OnceaSaintalwaysaSaint said:

Also interesting to see where those three clubs currently stand in the premiership. There's usually at least one promoted team that starts off ok but not this year.

Not impossible that all three promoted teams go down and all three relegated teams go up. Would be unprecedented, no Premier League season ever has had the same 20/22 teams from a previous season.

Edited 12 November, 2023 by Pamplemousse

[Saint86]

The top two weren't 9points ahead of 4th... Nor was either of the top 2 as well equipped as Leicester are this season. Limited comparisons can be made this season i'm afraid.

[gio1saints]

I think it’s telling how difficult those three quite dominant teams from the latter part of last season are finding it in the EPL. 

Im not sure any of those three ( maybe bar Burnley but even that’s a generous stretch ) can truthfully say they were playing their way out the Championship in a style that they planned was going to be competitive in the EPL. More truthfully, imo, match by match they did what was needed to get the points( again, bar Burnley to a degree). 

Same for Forest year before- they tried to insta-adapt to EPL by recruiting 20 new players when they got promoted and - God knows how but credit to the Manager - managed to stay up last year. 
 

My understanding is that, although Saints current style is hard, takes longer to learn and can drop us points in that process, over course of the season the gamble is that it should still be sufficient for Saints to get promoted.

The corollary to that is that, perhaps, it’s better to learn to play this way, at this level, where we can maybe get away with some mistakes than in the EPL where we will get hammered for each error. 
 

And that the style, as it matures, refines and becomes habitual, should be robust, pragmatic and competitive enough for us to be more than just be cannon fodder next season in the EPL. 
 

Thats the plan / gamble I guess. 

 I do think that SR could have chosen a more pragmatic Manager but I’m personally sanguine in fact happy we did not. Its so hard to say wether we’d have 30 points, 39 points or 13 points if we had done so- and moreover wether that pragmatic style would have a cats chance in hell of surviving the epl ( I doubt it look how badly the promoted teams are doing right now). 

We could be Burnley, sheff utd or Luton in exactly 12 months time at bottom of league looking bad every week unless there’s a plan. Thankfully it seems there is. It’s a sobering thought though. 

[Alanh]

It would be interesting to see how many players those promoted clubs have taken with them from last season into the EPL.  We know that THB isn't with Burnley any more and was a mainstay of their defence.  Also several teams (I think Forest are an example) have got promotion with teams full of Prem loans which have mainly been given back. 

If you have to do a big rebuild after promotion it will be a gamble as to whether you can compete as a newly promoted team.

[SNSUN]

1 hour ago, Alanh said:

It would be interesting to see how many players those promoted clubs have taken with them from last season into the EPL.  We know that THB isn't with Burnley any more and was a mainstay of their defence.  Also several teams (I think Forest are an example) have got promotion with teams full of Prem loans which have mainly been given back. 

If you have to do a big rebuild after promotion it will be a gamble as to whether you can compete as a newly promoted team.

I think if we went up we'd have to spend quite big, but THB would become ours anyway so that would be huge for the defence. You'd think we'd be able to keep KWP too. Really as starting defenders go we'd need one starting CB and LB and we'd be ok. Even Bazunu would be a different beast next time around with a season of confidence behind him.

Ultimately the important thing is just to get there. Us 3 relegated sides were always going to be competing for promotion this season, just a shame that Ipswich have been so good this season so far. Play offs would be a huge risk though. We need top 2 but it will be a tough ask.

[John B]

10 minutes ago, SNSUN said:

I think if we went up we'd have to spend quite big, but THB would become ours anyway so that would be huge for the defence. You'd think we'd be able to keep KWP too. Really as starting defenders go we'd need one starting CB and LB and we'd be ok. Even Bazunu would be a different beast next time around with a season of confidence behind him.

Ultimately the important thing is just to get there. Us 3 relegated sides were always going to be competing for promotion this season, just a shame that Ipswich have been so good this season so far. Play offs would be a huge risk though. We need top 2 but it will be a tough ask.

And then what a relegation struggle next year seems great

[SNSUN]

2 hours ago, John B said:

And then what a relegation struggle next year seems great

In the Prem? Any promoted team's first job is to stay up. But yes, I'd take a potential Prem relegation battle next season if it meant we got promoted this season. Otherwise what is the point of fighting for promotion in this league?

[benjii]

I think it's safe to say we got relegated at the wrong time. The three bottom clubs in the PL this year are awful and it will probably be possible to stay up with something like 28 points, maybe less.

And the other clubs relegated with us are strong, and Ipswich are on unbelievable form (but we're catching them....!).

[SaintBobby]

Just now, benjii said:

I think it's safe to say we got relegated at the wrong time. The three bottom clubs in the PL this year are awful and it will probably be possible to stay up with something like 28 points, maybe less.

And the other clubs relegated with us are strong, and Ipswich are on unbelievable form (but we're catching them....!).

Agree. There’s very little gap between the bottom six in the EPL and the top six in our division - in fact, I’d say the best 3 or 4 teams in the Championship are probably better than Luton, Burnley & Sheff Utd.