The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[egg]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

Why the fuck has Starmer gone out of his to say Jim Ratcliffe should apologise? He can say what he wants

Yep. More poor judgement. Little petulant shot at Davey in PMQ's too. For a bright bloke, he's pretty daft. 

[sadoldgit]

Ratcliffe should apologise… for getting his facts wrong. The population hasn’t grown by 12 million from 2020 to 2025. The figure is 2.7 million.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

Ratcliffe should apologise… for getting his facts wrong. The population hasn’t grown by 12 million from 2020 to 2025. The figure is 2.7 million.

From Beeb...

" I mean, the population of the UK was 58 million in 2020, now it's 70 million. That's 12 million people."

However, data from the Office for National Statistics estimates, external that the UK's population in mid-2025 was 69.4 million, compared with 66.7 million in mid-2020.

So, he's not far off the current population. He's out a fair bit on 2020. But would only have to go back a bit to make the same points.

Considering all the other, far more objectionable things he said, calling him out on the figures seems odd.

I'd have thought Starmer would be better served trying to recall how many others with links to child abuse he's endorsed, rather than try and deflect onto someone sharing his views.

[Gloucester Saint]

4 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

From Beeb...

" I mean, the population of the UK was 58 million in 2020, now it's 70 million. That's 12 million people."

However, data from the Office for National Statistics estimates, external that the UK's population in mid-2025 was 69.4 million, compared with 66.7 million in mid-2020.

So, he's not far off the current population. He's out a fair bit on 2020. But would only have to go back a bit to make the same points.

Considering all the other, far more objectionable things he said, calling him out on the figures seems odd.

I'd have thought Starmer would be better served trying to recall how many others with links to child abuse he's endorsed, rather than try and deflect onto someone sharing his views.

Not just a fair bit out - 8million is quite some margin of error. Personally I don’t think it’s a fight Starmer should pick, his response to Davey wasn’t very bright either, and his judgement is bloody awful. But Ratcliffe’s comments were miles off as well and bullshit, so one idiot doesn’t make the other idiot valid. If I was with our Exec Board at work and I was as far out on my facts as Ratcliffe was, I’d get torn to shreds and wouldn’t be credible. Starmer shouldn’t have joined in but Ratcliffe doesn’t do Man U any favours either.

Edited 4 hours ago by Gloucester Saint

[Gloucester Saint]

8 hours ago, whelk said:

Why the fuck has Starmer gone out of his to say Jim Ratcliffe should apologise? He can say what he wants

I don’t think this is a fight he should pick and he’s become obsessed with Reform and related issues. Ratcliffe’s comments are lazy Boomer slop that he’s picked up from the Mail or Telegraph and miles off reality, so I don’t neccessarily agree that Ratcliffe shouldn’t be challenged but there’s plenty of others picking up the challenge so an under pressure PM didn’t need to join in. 

[Sir Ralph]

9 hours ago, whelk said:

Why the fuck has Starmer gone out of his to say Jim Ratcliffe should apologise? He can say what he wants

No he can’t not in starmers world. Alternative opinions need to be apologised for. Starmer is a virtue signalling muppet and his views are now in the minority 

So do your job and sort the demise of the economy out,as a result of your policies  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy4wg0y0j02t

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[egg]

Disappointing growth figures. 

Overall a negligible increase, but no quarterly growth in services, and the worst performance in construction (-2.1%) in over 4 years. The weather has undoubtedly contributed to the latter, but not healthy signs for our economy. 

Probably Davey or Ratcliffe's fault. 

[Farmer Saint]

21 minutes ago, egg said:

Disappointing growth figures. 

Overall a negligible increase, but no quarterly growth in services, and the worst performance in construction (-2.1%) in over 4 years. The weather has undoubtedly contributed to the latter, but not healthy signs for our economy. 

Probably Davey or Ratcliffe's fault. 

And yet, it's the highest annual growth since the COVID bounce-backs in 2021 and 2022 (which was a net 1.6% over 3 years including 2020), and about equal to 2018 and 2019.

Welcome to post-Brexit Britain GDP growth.

Edited 3 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[egg]

Just now, Farmer Saint said:

And yet, it's the highest annual growth since the COVID bounce-backs in 2021 and 2022, and about equal to 2018 and 2019.

Welcome to post Brexit Britain GDP growth.

That's a worrying perspective, and shows where we're at. As much as we ridicule Trump and his antics, our growth in comparison to theirs is incomparable. 

There needs to be a grown up discussion asap about closer ties to the EU. Geopolitically, and financially, it's pretty much essential. 

[Farmer Saint]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

That's a worrying perspective, and shows where we're at. As much as we ridicule Trump and his antics, our growth in comparison to theirs is incomparable. 

There needs to be a grown up discussion asap about closer ties to the EU. Geopolitically, and financially, it's pretty much essential. 

Considering we've had the Tories, who are all about the economy according to our resident back-of-fag packet economists, presiding over all those years, I think it shows two main things:

1. It doesn't seem to matter who's in charge - as long as you don't do anything particularly batshit mental (see tax breaks given by Liz Truss and supported by multiple on here and in the right wing press) then it doesn't overly matter what you do, it doesn't make much difference.

2. The reason for the above, and I've said it multiple times in reference to interest rates, is that due to the truly global market we find ourselves in, economic performance is down to external factors. What we need to do is invest massively in technology, and ensure we keep our services intact. It's why being part of the EU, and keeping our trading hub away from Frankfurt is so important.

One of the businesses I advise for had seen four quarters of single digit falls in sales, but over the past year has seen that building back up. Was the reason the change in strategy the board implemented? Most of the board like to think so. However, our fall in sales and subsequent upturn correlate pretty much exactly with China's economic performance...

Edited 2 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Gloucester Saint said:

I don’t think this is a fight he should pick and he’s become obsessed with Reform and related issues. Ratcliffe’s comments are lazy Boomer slop that he’s picked up from the Mail or Telegraph and miles off reality, so I don’t neccessarily agree that Ratcliffe shouldn’t be challenged but there’s plenty of others picking up the challenge so an under pressure PM didn’t need to join in. 

Ratcliffe got his figures very wrong which undermines his point and makes him look a bit silly. The underlying observation - that Britain has changed dramatically, that some places look nothing like they did a generation ago and that the rate of change has been drastic - is real enough.

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

No he can’t not in starmers world. Alternative opinions need to be apologised for. Starmer is a virtue signalling muppet and his views are now in the minority 

So do your job and sort the demise of the economy out,as a result of your policies  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy4wg0y0j02t

Are we being colonised? Shouldn’t people be called out for talking bollocks and deliberately misrepresenting facts? Not in your world as you obviously believe that rubbish.

[Farmer Saint]

54 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Ratcliffe got his figures very wrong which undermines his point and makes him look a bit silly. The underlying observation - that Britain has changed dramatically, that some places look nothing like they did a generation ago and that the rate of change has been drastic - is real enough.

Well, it's not a generation ago, it's 5 years ago apparently.

Again, if you don't like brown people then people shouldn't have voted for Brexit.

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Well, it's not a generation ago, it's 5 years ago apparently.

Again, if you don't like brown people then people shouldn't have voted for Brexit.

Can you have concerns about the rate of demographic change and about a large influx of foreigners without being accused of not liking brown people? I have concerns about the rate of change over the last twenty years but the idea that I hate brown people is clearly a nonsense. 

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, hypochondriac said:

Can you have concerns about the rate of demographic change and about a large influx of foreigners without being accused of not liking brown people? I have concerns about the rate of change over the last twenty years but the idea that I hate brown people is clearly a nonsense. 

Where did I put this on you? I'm talking about what Ratcliffe said.

[Turkish]

7 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

From Beeb...

" I mean, the population of the UK was 58 million in 2020, now it's 70 million. That's 12 million people."

However, data from the Office for National Statistics estimates, external that the UK's population in mid-2025 was 69.4 million, compared with 66.7 million in mid-2020.

So, he's not far off the current population. He's out a fair bit on 2020. But would only have to go back a bit to make the same points.

Considering all the other, far more objectionable things he said, calling him out on the figures seems odd.

I'd have thought Starmer would be better served trying to recall how many others with links to child abuse he's endorsed, rather than try and deflect onto someone sharing his views.

Has he been spending too much time with Eni Aluko?

[rallyboy]

2 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

Alternative opinions

Ratcliffe's wasn't an alternative opinion, it was made-up shit.

We are in an era when some people value pub gossip more than facts.

 

[Sir Ralph]

39 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Ratcliffe's wasn't an alternative opinion, it was made-up shit.

We are in an era when some people value pub gossip more than facts.

 

His general point was about the impact of rapid levels of immigration on the economy coupled with too many people relying on benefits. I agree his figures weren’t right but his general concerns are shared by lots of people and he is reiterating what is one of the key issues for the electorate and it’s embarrassing that politicians still try to shame people rather than engaging with their views and explaining why they disagree with them.
 

I would certainly be listening to Jim Radcliffes view on the state of the UK than many other people. Other people that live abroad don’t have a particularly positive view about it at the moment. Have you listened to the interview?

Edited 41 minutes ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

Are we being colonised? Shouldn’t people be called out for talking bollocks and deliberately misrepresenting facts? Not in your world as you obviously believe that rubbish.

Do you think it is the PM’s role to respond though? Maybe he should be checking X for bollocks Alan Sugar has written and ask him to apologise too?

[whelk]

31 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

His general point was about the impact of rapid levels of immigration on the economy coupled with too many people relying on benefits. I agree his figures weren’t right but his general concerns are shared by lots of people and he is reiterating what is one of the key issues for the electorate and it’s embarrassing that politicians still try to shame people rather than engaging with their views and explaining why they disagree with them.
 

I would certainly be listening to Jim Radcliffes view on the state of the UK than many other people. Other people that live abroad don’t have a particularly positive view about it at the moment. Have you listened to the interview?

I think many who moan about Britain are just discontented with modern society, which I can understand.  Most people’s lives are not hugely affected whether Labour or Tory are in government. Having constant information (much which we don’t need) makes people more annoyed at politicians. This isn’t relative to how anyone’s lives are affected. What was so much better in 2023 than 2025?

 

Edited 21 minutes ago by whelk

[whelk]

As an aside Ratcliffe was offered to buy Saints before Marcus arrived

[whelk]

2 hours ago, egg said:

That's a worrying perspective, and shows where we're at. As much as we ridicule Trump and his antics, our growth in comparison to theirs is incomparable. 

There needs to be a grown up discussion asap about closer ties to the EU. Geopolitically, and financially, it's pretty much essential. 

Europe is so inferior in terms of natural resources compared with US. It isn’t their approach to politics that is the difference, although clearly they value work more than the average European.

[rallyboy]

1 minute ago, whelk said:

As an aside Ratcliffe was offered to buy Saints before Marcus arrived

We dodged a fuckwit there.

Ineos cycling, his sailing team, Man United, he's had a shocker.

[whelk]

1 minute ago, rallyboy said:

We dodged a fuckwit there.

Ineos cycling, his sailing team, Man United, he's had a shocker.

Indeed although back then he was a recluse and didn’t want any publicity 

[hypochondriac]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Where did I put this on you? I'm talking about what Ratcliffe said.

Where has he said he hates brown people? His underlying point was the same as the one I agreed with. 

[Sir Ralph]

12 minutes ago, whelk said:

I think many who moan about Britain are just discontented with modern society, which I can understand.  Most people’s lives are not hugely affected whether Labour or Tory are in government. Having constant information (much which we don’t need) makes people more annoyed at politicians. This isn’t relative to how anyone’s lives are affected. What was so much better in 2023 than 2025?

 

I broadly agree but think it is getting worse over time. The country needs a reset in terms of mentality and I think this situation has evolved over the past 20 years