The Starmer Years - Can The New Broom Sweep Clean?

[Sir Ralph]

12 minutes ago, egg said:

Me, me, me. Welcome to selfish Britain.

Rather a stupid statement. What do you do in terms of sector work? I like to know as it helps to inform why people take the views they do. 
 

 

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

50 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

So today will be the day where the socialist party starts to really show their true colours. Down with aspiration and wealth, up with state reliance and wastage. All because of what happened in WW2 or something.

Never had anything handed to me on a plate but Im about to get my pants pulled down (again) for no other reason than I work harder than the majority of my contemporaries. Welcome to socialist Britain 

Anyway at least we probably won’t see them again until I’ve retired

What are you expecting to happen? What taxes are rising?

[egg]

1 minute ago, Sir Ralph said:

Rather a stupid statement. What do you do in terms of sector work? I like to know as it helps to inform why people take the views they do. 
 

 

An uncomfortable truth isn't stupid.

My business activities and sector is irrelevant. My politics aren't your selfish "me first, sod society" politics. I know it's hard for someone with your political stance to grasp, but some of us appreciate that public services are important, and need paying for. Would I prefer minimal taxes, of course - I pay a small fortune annually - but that ain't reality. 

[Sir Ralph]

 

16 minutes ago, egg said:

An uncomfortable truth isn't stupid.

My business activities and sector is irrelevant. My politics aren't your selfish "me first, sod society" politics. I know it's hard for someone with your political stance to grasp, but some of us appreciate that public services are important, and need paying for. Would I prefer minimal taxes, of course - I pay a small fortune annually - but that ain't reality. 

They are relevant because if you have never taken risks to make your business work, worked regularly till the early hours, already pay substantial sums in tax then you don’t have a clue. Based on your lack of willing to explain your work I suspect you have done none of these so you’re happy for people like me to have done this (at their own time and detriment in some cases) to then pay taxes and then call them selfish if they say this isn’t fair. I don’t have any issues with people that make lifestyle choices to work the 9-5 etc, in fact it maybe the more sensible choice. But if you do that don’t then criticise people who have pushed harder for complaining about ever increasing tax burdens. All very selfish. Do you think money grows on trees - most people have worked bloody hard and taken lots of risks just to hand it over to a wasteful government, who themselves have no idea how business works.

Notwithstanding this it’s a stupid approach as it decreases aspiration and the people who already pay most tax to continue to aspire. Hence less tax for the Governemnt. You may not understand this concept though.
 

An uncomfortable truth for you is that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax and the top 10% pay 60% of income tax. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

53 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

They are relevant because if you have never taken risks to make your business work, worked regularly till the early hours, already pay substantial sums in tax then you don’t have a clue. Based on your lack of willing to explain your work I suspect you have done none of these so you’re happy for people like me to have done this (at their own time and detriment in some cases) to then pay taxes and then call them selfish if they say this isn’t fair. I don’t have any issues with people that make lifestyle choices to work the 9-5 etc, in fact it maybe the more sensible choice. But if you do that don’t then criticise people who have pushed harder for complaining about ever increasing tax burdens. All very selfish. Do you think money grows on trees - most people have worked bloody hard and taken lots of risks just to hand it over to a wasteful government, who themselves have no idea how business works.

Notwithstanding this it’s a stupid approach as it decreases aspiration and the people who already pay most tax to continue to aspire. Hence less tax for the Governemnt. You may not understand this concept though.
 

An uncomfortable truth for you is that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax and the top 10% pay 60% of income tax. 

So you don't think that the richest in society should have the broadest shoulders? What taxes are you most scared of?

Personally I'm pleased, it's what I wanted when they got into power. I have more than enough to live a good life, so paying more is absolutely fine by me.

Edited 5 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[egg]

15 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

They are relevant because if you have never taken risks to make your business work, worked regularly till the early hours, already pay substantial sums in tax then you don’t have a clue. Based on your lack of willing to explain your work I suspect you have done none of these so you’re happy for people like me to have done this (at their own time and detriment in some cases) to then pay taxes and then call them selfish if they say this isn’t fair. I don’t have any issues with people that make lifestyle choices to work the 9-5 etc, in fact it maybe the more sensible choice. But if you do that don’t then criticise people who have pushed harder for complaining about ever increasing tax burdens. All very selfish. Do you think money grows on trees - most people have worked bloody hard and taken lots of risks just to hand it over to a wasteful government, who themselves have no idea how business works.

Notwithstanding this it’s a stupid approach as it decreases aspiration and the people who already pay most tax to continue to aspire. Hence less tax for the Governemnt. You may not understand this concept though.
 

An uncomfortable truth for you is that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax and the top 10% pay 60% of income tax. 

I've built, acquired and sold out of very successful businesses.  I can now work as hard or gently as I choose.  I won't elaborate on that. 

As you've chosen to speculate about who and what we are though, and cast opinion, I'll follow. I don't believe you're what you purport to be. I think you're a relative youngster posting AI driven material. 

Regardless, our politics are different. I remain of the view that a me, me, me mentality is selfish. Of course you disagree, but that's fine. 

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, egg said:

I've built, acquired and sold out of very successful businesses.  I can now work as hard or gently as I choose.  I won't elaborate on that. 

As you've chosen to speculate about who and what we are though, and cast opinion, I'll follow. I don't believe you're what you purport to be. I think you're a relative youngster posting AI driven material. 

Regardless, our politics are different. I remain of the view that a me, me, me mentality is selfish. Of course you disagree, but that's fine. 

Exactly this.

[trousers]

9 minutes ago, egg said:

you disagree, but that's fine. 

If someone had posted that 82 pages ago this thread might have been 81 pages shorter...

#goingaroundincircles

Edited 5 hours ago by trousers

[Sir Ralph]

 

14 minutes ago, egg said:

I've built, acquired and sold out of very successful businesses.  I can now work as hard or gently as I choose.  I won't elaborate on that. 

As you've chosen to speculate about who and what we are though, and cast opinion, I'll follow. I don't believe you're what you purport to be. I think you're a relative youngster posting AI driven material. 

Regardless, our politics are different. I remain of the view that a me, me, me mentality is selfish. Of course you disagree, but that's fine. 

Agree to disagree 

[Sir Ralph]

8 minutes ago, trousers said:

If someone had posted that 82 pages ago this thread might have been 81 pages shorter...

#goingaroundincircles

Very true. 

[tdmickey3]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

What are you expecting to happen? What taxes are rising?

Tax will rise by 1p

[moonraker]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

 

They are relevant because if you have never taken risks to make your business work, worked regularly till the early hours, already pay substantial sums in tax then you don’t have a clue. Based on your lack of willing to explain your work I suspect you have done none of these so you’re happy for people like me to have done this (at their own time and detriment in some cases) to then pay taxes and then call them selfish if they say this isn’t fair. I don’t have any issues with people that make lifestyle choices to work the 9-5 etc, in fact it maybe the more sensible choice. But if you do that don’t then criticise people who have pushed harder for complaining about ever increasing tax burdens. All very selfish. Do you think money grows on trees - most people have worked bloody hard and taken lots of risks just to hand it over to a wasteful government, who themselves have no idea how business works.

Notwithstanding this it’s a stupid approach as it decreases aspiration and the people who already pay most tax to continue to aspire. Hence less tax for the Governemnt. You may not understand this concept though.
 

An uncomfortable truth for you is that the top 1% of earners pay 30% of income tax and the top 10% pay 60% of income tax. 

Very simple, you have to earn it to pay it.  I am sure the 90%, who using your figures only pay 40% of the tax, would willingly pay more if they earned the same as the top 10%.   

[Sir Ralph]

11 minutes ago, moonraker said:

Very simple, you have to earn it to pay it.  I am sure the 90%, who using your figures only pay 40% of the tax, would willingly pay more if they earned the same as the top 10%.   

Too simplistic. And put the hours, sacrifice and risk to get there? I know lots of people who aren’t capable or don’t want to, so you dismiss the hard graft, risk and sacrifice those people put in to be in that good position by saying that. Money growing on trees comes to mind again

Edited 4 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Sir Ralph said:

for no other reason than I work harder than the majority of my contemporaries

If you worked for me I’d have you on performance management, as you are always posting on an internet forum you lazy fucker. 

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Too simplistic. And put the hours, sacrifice and risk to get there? I know lots of people who aren’t capable or don’t want to, so you dismiss the hard graft, risk and sacrifice those people put in to be in that good position by saying that. Money growing on trees comes to mind again

I thought you were an estate agent? Oh the risks the risks I’ve taken. I don’t actually think you understand money and economies at all. 

[Sir Ralph]

31 minutes ago, whelk said:

If you worked for me I’d have you on performance management, as you are always posting on an internet forum you lazy fucker. 

Very true - I’m efficient with my time and I’m not an estate agent so don’t slander me with that. When I was younger I’ve worked in the public sector I’ve worked in the private sector and now run own business which I have done for a number of years so I probably have a more diverse experience and knowledge than many. On this forum I find it confusing as it must be one or the few places where alleged business people seem to be so pro tax and anti or silent on lower tax / pro business policies. Very strange and, other than dale vince, not aligned at all what business people in the public eye say which gives me huge reservation. Actually what I say aligns with them so maybe that says a lot. 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[tdmickey3]

25 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Too simplistic. And put the hours, sacrifice and risk to get there? I know lots of people who aren’t capable or don’t want to, so you dismiss the hard graft, risk and sacrifice those people put in to be in that good position by saying that. Money growing on trees comes to mind again

Bet you have fiddled your tax anyway

[Farmer Saint]

27 minutes ago, whelk said:

I thought you were an estate agent? Oh the risks the risks I’ve taken. I don’t actually think you understand money and economies at all. 

I think he's a self-employed cleaner myself. He says he works in "Real estate" but won't give any sort of clue as to what he does in real estate. He consistently talks about low tax and pro-business policies, yet can't ever name one. He also doesn't understand how tax works and as soon as a difficult question is asked he can't give an answer, as if his Google search skills aren't good enough.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I think he's a self-employed cleaner myself. He says he works in "Real estate" but won't give any sort of clue as to what he does in real estate. He consistently talks about low tax and pro-business policies, yet can't ever name one. He also doesn't understand how tax works and as soon as a difficult question is asked he can't give an answer, as if his Google search skills aren't good enough.

And if you went around these boards that you allege you work on and told them your pro tax stance they would take the piss out of you. Your view on the business world and economy doesn’t align with one successful person I know so I think your BS. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Sir Ralph]

17 minutes ago, tdmickey3 said:

Bet you have fiddled your tax anyway

Great response. You would have to pay tax to fiddle it

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

And if you went around these boards that you allege you work on and told them your pro tax stance they would take the piss out of you. Your view on the business world and economy doesn’t align with one successful person I know so I think your BS. 

I advise on IT strategy and infrastructure - you clearly have no idea what discussions go on at board level. Income tax is never discussed, because frankly, our time is pretty important and that is not.

You're a bullshitter, you have been caught out multiple times. Own it.

[Sir Ralph]

7 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I advise on IT strategy and infrastructure - you clearly have no idea what discussions go on at board level. Income tax is never discussed, because frankly, our time is pretty important and that is not.

You're a bullshitter, you have been caught out multiple times. Own it.

I know you wouldn’t discuss it or politics in a meeting I am saying if you discussed it with contemporaries at board level. If I spoke to people I work alongside and said the things you said they would all take the living piss out of me, including friends in finance.in my work we don’t have board meetings - we just work directly with the ultimate decision maker and funder

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I know you wouldn’t discuss it in a meeting I am saying if you discussed it with contemporaries. If I spoke to people I work alongside and said the things you said they would all take the living piss out of me, including friends in finance.in my work we don’t have board meetings - we just work directly with the ultimate decision maker and funder

Friends in Finance 😂 😂 😂 

Jesus H Christ - so you are saying the all finance people believe in low taxes? You're ridiculous mate, you're floundering and talking even more shit.

There is a rule when you get to certain levels, and that is "don't talk politics". I would heartily suggest you follow this as it will hold you back massively. You will be judged and rightly so.

If you think everyone at board level lives in the world you are inventing, you will be very surprised if you ever get there.

 

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Friends in Finance 😂 😂 😂 

Jesus H Christ - so you are saying the all finance people believe in low taxes? You're ridiculous mate, you're floundering and talking even more shit.

There is a rule when you get to certain levels, and that is "don't talk politics". I would heartily suggest you follow this as it will hold you back massively. You will be judged and rightly so.

If you think everyone at board level lives in the world you are inventing, you will be very surprised if you ever get there.

 

What you said doesn’t reflect what I said anyway as you keep saying things I haven’t said. Maybe read articles from business people in the public eye and see what they think to your high tax approach - don’t just take it from me. I don’t want to ever sit on a board anyway. Have a good morning

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

What you said doesn’t reflect what I said anyway as you keep saying things I haven’t said. I don’t want to ever sit on a board anyway. Have a good morning

Don't worry, you won't.

[Sir Ralph]

11 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Don't worry, you won't.

I suggest we wait and see the business world’s reaction to a potential high tax budget. Then we will know who’s talking rubbish. Bookmark please

Edited 3 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I suggest we wait and see the business world’s reaction to a potential high tax budget. Then we will know who’s talking shite won’t we. Bookmark please

Tax on business, or tax on the public. I will ask again, what taxes are you so scared of?

Not sure what you're saying I'm arguing.

Edited 3 hours ago by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

15 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I suggest we wait and see the business world’s reaction to a potential high tax budget. Then we will know who’s talking rubbish. Bookmark please

You do understand that economies ebb and flow? You must have been gutted when Truss got the boot as presumably her mini budget needed to reduce tax further………….wait for it……….for GROWTH!

Edited 2 hours ago by whelk

[sadoldgit]

1 hour ago, Sir Ralph said:

Too simplistic. And put the hours, sacrifice and risk to get there? I know lots of people who aren’t capable or don’t want to, so you dismiss the hard graft, risk and sacrifice those people put in to be in that good position by saying that. Money growing on trees comes to mind again

Tell me what hard work is involved in going to bed with $10b worth of assets and waking up the next morning with $20b worth of assets?

Why is it perfectly ok for a small minority of the human beings on this planet to hoard the largest amount of money while the vast majority, most of whom have to do boring mundane jobs, struggle to make ends meet? Some of these people are even struggling to put a roof over the heads of their families and food on the table. Do you think that they can be blamed for their lack of being born with a silver spoon in their mouths, for not having the aptitude to run a business or maybe not have the opportunity? Without the “plebs” of society who consume the goods that businesses provide, there would be far fewer people like you - hence the phrase “we are all in this together.” 

People like you and Musk will not go down in history kindly. Where are all of the Musk libraries, museums, schools, universities, hospitals etc? He, Trump, Farage etc. are all about what’s in it for them. You sound like you are one of them. 

Brexit has cost this country a fortune. In an ideal world those who voted for it should pay higher taxes. Because we are supposed to share the burden, we will all need to pay more tax. As usual, those of us mere mortals will face a bigger hit than the rich as we don’t have the means to take advantage of the tax loopholes/avoidance schemes. If the higher burden is placed on the rich, do you really believe that their lifestyles will actually be affected in any meaningful way other than not buying another yacht this year? Do you see the difference in that and not being able to afford £7 for a pint?

By the way, apparently 10% of the richest households own 50% of the wealth in the UK. What was that about money trees? Sounds like some have money orchards.

 

Edited 2 hours ago by sadoldgit

[Farmer Saint]

So...if we raise income tax by 2% will we be better or worse off than we were before we recklessly started cutting NI in 2024?

[Farmer Saint]

49 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

I suggest we wait and see the business world’s reaction to a potential high tax budget. Then we will know who’s talking rubbish. Bookmark please

Speaking to Radio 4, Luke Hickmore of Aberdeen Investments said bond markets, where the government borrows, were “laser-focused on costs coming down and revenue rising”.

He said the markets would take “comfort” from hints of tax rises but added that Reeves hadn’t said as much about plans to cut costs.

[Sir Ralph]

12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Speaking to Radio 4, Luke Hickmore of Aberdeen Investments said bond markets, where the government borrows, were “laser-focused on costs coming down and revenue rising”.

He said the markets would take “comfort” from hints of tax rises but added that Reeves hadn’t said as much about plans to cut costs.

Exactly - a balanced budget, including tax cuts. Whenever I mention tax cuts on here some the population here freaks out. Having only tax rises is a terrible idea which is all we have had so far and all the media are talking about, yet you are intent continually backing the Government on this stance. Start with tax cuts that are necessary and then tax rises should be supplemental only, in the context of the last budget.

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

Just now, Sir Ralph said:

Exactly - a balanced budget, including tax cuts. Whenever I mention tax cuts on here some the population here freaks out. Having only tax rises is a terrible idea which is all we have had so far and all the media are talking about, yet you are intent not on backing them. Start with tax cuts that are necessary and then tax rises should be supplemental only, in the context of the last budget.

What??? I think you've misunderstood what is written above.

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

What??? I think you've misunderstood what is written above.

What are you saying then? The chap on radio 4 is talking about reducing the deficit and saying that taxes can help to achieve this but is hoping reeves will explain where cuts will be made

My personal perspective on a balanced budget is one that you Start with tax cuts that are necessary and then tax rises should be supplemental only, in the context of the last budget.

Im not sure why this statement from radio 4 is ground breaking or proves what I have said as being incorrect. The point is Labour don’t want to make any savings they want to tax some people into oblivion 

Edited 2 hours ago by Sir Ralph

[Farmer Saint]

4 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

What are you saying then? The chap on radio 4 is talking about reducing the deficit and saying that taxes can help to achieve this but is hoping reeves will explain where cuts will be made

My personal perspective on a balanced budget is one that you Start with tax cuts that are necessary and then tax rises should be supplemental only, in the context of the last budget.

Im not sure why this statement from radio 4 is ground breaking or proves what I have said as being incorrect. The point is Labour don’t want to make any savings they want to tax some people into oblivion 

Not tax cuts, cuts in public spending (benefits for example). 

They're saying these tax rises are a good thing, and the markets like them.

[Sir Ralph]

20 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not tax cuts, cuts in public spending (benefits for example). 

They're saying these tax rises are a good thing, and the markets like them.

I meant to say spending cuts not tax cuts. The channel 4 guy is commenting in the context of a balanced budget to reduce the deficit and borrowing costs.
 

The issue (which I keep mentioning again and again) is that they only want to increase taxes and not reduce spending which is harmful to the economy. The best approach for growth is to firstly find where you can make cuts to spending and then, if absolutely necessary, increase tax. This will be  a one way budget and approach which will ultimately be bad for business.

You have taken that quote from the bbc thread - read the rest of it to see what businesses say. Resounding support for these tax rises…not

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwynl0q5eynt

Don’t worry there will be mountains of this stuff soon but you want the government to tax more. Wow, people would be more aspirational grow their businesses and comply more people if there was less tax?!!! Greedy bastards!

What do you make of possible tax rises?published at 11:56

11:56

We have been hearing from members of the public on possible tax rises at the upcoming Budget on 26 November.

Harry is an NHS doctor working 46 hours a week. He is due to become a consultant in the next 12 months, but says he will no longer qualify for nursery funding for his son once he achieves the promotion, as the starting salary for the role is over the £100,000 free-childcare cap. 

"Once I'm over that [£100,000] bracket, I'm majorly disincentivised to go to work... So when I take up a consultant post, I’m probably going to work part time," he tells Nicky Campbell on BBC Radio 5 Live.

We also heard from Steven, a plumber and small business owner in Epping. He says there is no incentive to grow his business at the moment as it could push him over the VAT threshold. 

Businesses have to register for VAT if their VAT-taxable turnover is more than £90,000.

"I withhold services towards the end of the tax year because of the VAT threshold," Steven says. He adds that "a lot" of sole traders and small businesses "don't want the hassle of being VAT registered".

If the government raised the threshold to £120,000-£150,000, he says he would "happily take on another trainee" and grow his business.

 

 

More tax rises will halt my growth plan, says small businesses ownerpublished at 10:56

10:56

We've been hearing from readers about how they think the Budget could affect them.

Matt Cooper, who runs a small business that provides educational courses on mountain safety, says that every time he switches on the news it seems there's another tax on the public which is making it tough for companies like his. 

"More tax rises will halt my plan of growth," he says.

"I'm not a Conservative voter, but it felt like the economy was in better hands before, as it just feels like there's new taxes all the time."

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

How did people cope before the top rate of income tax was cut to 75% in the early 70's ?

[Sir Ralph]

4 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

How did people cope before the top rate of income tax was cut to 75% in the early 70's ?

Are you taking the piss? The 1960s and 1970s?! The cavemen survived with no tax so I think we could do that too

Edited 1 hour ago by Sir Ralph

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Sir Ralph said:

Are you taking the piss? The 1970s?! Apparently I’m the one that knows nothing about economics? The cavemen survived with no tax so I think we could do that too

Why do you get so aggressive so quickly ?

Was my question specifically aimed at you ?

Edited 1 hour ago by badgerx16

[Sir Ralph]

2 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Why do you get so aggressive so quickly ?

Was my question specifically aimed at you ?

Fair enough it because I’m an angry man.

Looking forward to seeing the responses. 

[AlexLaw76]

Literally, 3-4 weeks ago both Starmer and Reeves said they were sticking to their manifesto promise not to raise taxes further.

Obviously, everything has changed in the last few weeks 🤪

[Sir Ralph]

37 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Literally, 3-4 weeks ago both Starmer and Reeves said they were sticking to their manifesto promise not to raise taxes further.

Obviously, everything has changed in the last few weeks 🤪

They realised that Vicky Pollard wouldnt be able to afford her fags and Sky TV license, cant be having that