POLL: Should we now go for administration?

[eelpie]

Rupert's experiment has failed. Even the Echo says so.

 

86% of diehard supporters on this forum believe that relegation is now inevitable.

 

So the burning question is, can we survive administration in League 1?

 

1. If not, should we go for administration now, before relegation is a mathematical certainty, and while there is still time for 10 points to be deducted THIS season, not next?

 

Or

 

2. Should we gamble on not having to call in the administrators, and not having 10 points deducted next season?

 

Poll?

 

A difficult decision needs to be made now.

[OldNick]

Its nit worth thinking about.I supect the results in the next few weeks will have a massive bearing on it.i cant recall what date it has to be done by,sometime in march i think.

We are not dead yet we have been in a lot worse positions than this before.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Nobody really knows just how skint we are or whether Lowe, Wilde and Crouch will as a last resort avoid administration by digging deep.

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

Rupert's experiment has failed. Even the Echo says so.

 

A difficult decision needs to be made now.

 

LOL LOL LOL. Well, that's it then. Unlike the Echo to get anything wrong.

 

Anyhow, back to your question. Admin would be an unmitigated disaster for this club, putting all of the disasters of the last 5 years or so well into the shade to the degree that you would think that none of them had ever happened.

 

And if you really think it would mean the end of Lowe, then you are seriously misinformed. Indeed, it is likely that he would emerge from Admin with even a stronger grip on the club.

 

With all due respect to everybody on here, the only sensible way forward is to get right behind the team now and wait (and I am afraid that 'waiting' is the only real option as much as you may hate it) until a credible alternative to Lowe & Co comes forward.

 

It is often darkest before the dawn and running around and breaking windows will not make it any lighter any quicker.

[eelpie]

LOL LOL LOL. Well, that's it then. Unlike the Echo to get anything wrong.

 

Anyhow, back to your question. Admin would be an unmitigated disaster for this club, putting all of the disasters of the last 5 years or so well into the shade to the degree that you would think that none of them had ever happened.

 

And if you really think it would mean the end of Lowe, then you are seriously misinformed. Indeed, it is likely that he would emerge from Admin with even a stronger grip on the club.

 

With all due respect to everybody on here, the only sensible way forward is to get right behind the team now and wait (and I am afraid that 'waiting' is the only real option as much as you may hate it) until a credible alternative to Lowe & Co comes forward.

 

It is often darkest before the dawn and running around and breaking windows will not make it any lighter any quicker.

 

But do you think that -if relegated - we could financially survive in League 1?

[trousers]

With all due respect to everybody on here, the only sensible way forward is to get right behind the team now and wait (and I am afraid that 'waiting' is the only real option as much as you may hate it) until a credible alternative to Lowe & Co comes forward.

 

Wait? For how much longer?

 

p.s. what do you think of my new webcam? Here's a recent snapshot of me on TSF waiting for the club to be taken over....

 

[StuRomseySaint]

LOL LOL LOL. Well, that's it then. Unlike the Echo to get anything wrong.

 

Anyhow, back to your question. Admin would be an unmitigated disaster for this club, putting all of the disasters of the last 5 years or so well into the shade to the degree that you would think that none of them had ever happened.

 

And if you really think it would mean the end of Lowe, then you are seriously misinformed. Indeed, it is likely that he would emerge from Admin with even a stronger grip on the club.

 

With all due respect to everybody on here, the only sensible way forward is to get right behind the team now and wait (and I am afraid that 'waiting' is the only real option as much as you may hate it) until a credible alternative to Lowe & Co comes forward.

 

It is often darkest before the dawn and running around and breaking windows will not make it any lighter any quicker.

 

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

OUr fanbase is very fickle and won't turn up to watch us play Hereford, Yeovil, Carlisle etc , that is a FACT

 

Waiting is not the only option, it is quite easy to make Lowe and Wildes positions untenable. Anyway, this thread is about administration, which we are heading for full steam, regardless of who is CHairman.

 

The question is whether it would be better to take the -10 this season or next.

[JohnnyFartPants]

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

OUr fanbase is very fickle and won't turn up to watch us play Hereford, Yeovil, Carlisle etc , that is a FACT

 

Waiting is not the only option, it is quite easy to make Lowe and Wildes positions untenable. Anyway, this thread is about administration, which we are heading for full steam, regardless of who is CHairman.

 

The question is whether it would be better to take the -10 this season or next.

 

Would it be fair to say that the protestors are all in favour of crouch returning as there doesn't seem to be another offer out there?

[londonsaint1604]

It's not over til it's over. There's a long way to go yet and, although right now it does look like we'll go down, we shouldn't give up. So no I don't think we should call in the admins this season.

[SaintRobbie]

No we shouldnt. If we do I worry Lowe has a plan to snap up the sharess/buy the club with the other leaches.

 

I suspect avoiding admin and getting Crouch in for the rest of the season and Lowe out has to be everyone's main effort.

 

I think we can still survive if we get a British manager and as many loanees back as we can as well as the fans back under Crouch's chairmanship until the end of the season.

 

If we take the point deduction now it will be irrelevant. IMHO this team will be lucky to survive in League 1 anyway - but with a new manager may. Therefore, next season will have to be viewed as a mid-table finish prior to rebuilding/selling the club. 10 points deduction is therefore absorbable next season. But, DO NOT expect to bounce back to the CCC after the damage Lowe has done.

 

Lowe has caused more damage this season than any chairman in the clubs history. Concentrate on removing him and on filling the stadium with supporters for Crouch, his manager AND the team and we have an outside chance.

 

Could be a half decent end to the season if we make a fight of it!

[Saint Richard of Woolston]

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

OUr fanbase is very fickle and won't turn up to watch us play Hereford, Yeovil, Carlisle etc , that is a FACT

 

Waiting is not the only option, it is quite easy to make Lowe and Wildes positions untenable. Anyway, this thread is about administration, which we are heading for full steam, regardless of who is CHairman.

 

The question is whether it would be better to take the -10 this season or next.

 

Whilst it 'may' be inevitable if we go down, I don't think it is inevitable (i) that we do go down and (ii) admin is inevitable if we do not.

 

And it is anything but easy to make Lowe & Wilde's position untenable. In fact,I would say bloody next to impossible.

 

To accelerate us into Admin when the scenario is far from inevitable is sheer and utter folly.

[Sheff Saint]

I don't think it is inevitable we will go into adminstration if we went down.

 

When Sheff Wed were in League 1 they had over £30mil in debt and avioded administation.

 

Of course if Lowe stays in power after we're down all this seasons problems will be magnified even further (if that's possible) which will really affect gates. But if, if we are in with a shout of a play off place we will get gates near to 15k and if Lowe is gone i think we could see the odd 20k gate, if the prices are right.

 

I think i'm saying there are so many hyperthetical questions between now and a point in time when admin might be necessary that we should never enter administration on a voluantary basis. We should fight hard to get rid of Wupert and cross everything we stop up and are not forced into administration.

[St Marco]

Think we need to put a few things into perspective here. Lowe would not be given the club if we go into admin. His record will be 2 relegations in his last 3 years at the club. No court will release a company to someone who shows that level of mis-management. Add to that he has no money and has never put any money or gained investment into the club. If we go into admin we will see many people come out of the woodwork willing to buy the club because it will have no debts. It will look a better prospect to an investor then having to negotiate with lots of different people for their shares.

The last thing the courts will want is to have to re-administrate the company again in a year or two. And with no money and the local population being hostile to Lowe that is what will happen. If he came in with some rich partner then that would be different but he has not done that in the 12 years he has been at the club so i don't see that changing one bit.

 

Going into admin is not a punishment, the points deduction is the punishment. Right now this club is in admin in every way but title. We have had to sack a lot of staff, have had to cut player costs, manager costs, stadium costs etc etc the only difference is Lowe and Wilde get paid while if we were in admin they wouldn't.

 

Now i'm not saying we should officially go into admin but if we are 10 points adrift we have to be honest and say we will not survive. I think a lot of us are nearing that realisation. If we could only win 6 of our games how will we win 50% of our 15 games that are left? Not very likely.

 

If at that point admin guranteed we would be rid of Wilde and Lowe for good; and would mean we can stop the slide like Leeds did and teams like Hull before them did. Then again we have to be realistic and realise that taking the points deduction this year and being relegated is better then waiting to see if we survive then if we do get relegated then starting next year with a -10 start.

 

So my opinion is that going into admin will actually not be any different to what we are currently suffering. We owe a lot of people money. The players we have are not worth what we think. The playing side to the club is the poorest it has ever been, the management side is the poorest it has ever been, the board is the poorest it has been, the attendence is the poorest it has been, the finances are the poorest it has been and so on and so on.

If we drift further away from the teams above us then i would vote for going into admin and getting the people out of this club who have brought us here once and for all. This club will never go forward while they are here so the slide will continue. So i would wait for the next 3-4 games, see how they go. If we lose them and are around 10 points adrift i think we will have to accept we are down and going into admin will be the only way to stop the slide further.

[Judge_B]

What is the latest date that we can go in to admin without it having a knock-on penalty points effect for next season?

[saint_ed]

The club should wait for the absolute deadline before making any decision. But the way it is looking, I would rather take the points deduction this season. As Leicester have proved, you can bounce back at the first time of asking with a good manager. (FAO Rupert Lowe)

[alpine_saint]

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

 

And this is the crux of the issue.

 

If we dont take administration by mid-March, we are ensuring we are fighting a relegation battle next season as well, whilst there are 2 months of this one to go.

[trousers]

The 2007-08 annual report published in December said that the club would need to attract significant additional funds in 2009 in order to continue to be a 'going concern', either through player sales or investment (internal or external).

 

Given:

 

(a) the somewhat surprising lack of player sales last month

 

and

 

(b) the somewhat unsurprising lack of investment thus far

 

the only logical vote (IMHO) is "yes, we should enter administration before the cutoff date"

 

Unless someone knows something that I don't that renders the club's clear statement in the annual report about it's "going concern" status obsolete?

 

If so, please publish here so I can change my mind. Thanks.

[trousers]

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

And this is the crux of the issue.

 

 

Except that the annual report doesn't state that CCC survival alone would protect our 'going concern' status. To my mind it was quite clear in saying that we need to raise additional funds this year regardless of which division we end up in after May.

[Whitey Grandad]

I cannot possible express an opinion on this matter without having a detailed look at the accounts.

[trousers]

I cannot possible express an opinion on this matter without having a detailed look at the accounts.

 

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/uploads/documents/nov_08/sfc_1227479896_Southampton_Leisure_Holdings_p.doc

[West End Saint]

All I know is we dont want to start life in League 1 with a points deduction that could be a disaster and we could find ourselfs in League 2.

 

If administration is avoidable then we should do all we can to avoid it if not then we should get it over and done with most people have accepted that we will go down anyway.

 

I dont know enough to have a opinion as wether it would be a good or bad thing bad I think but I am not sure of the ins and outs I do believe that when we have hit rock bottom and rid ourselfs of Lowe and his wrecking crew we will go forward and bounce back.

 

Sooner or later the future will be bright in red & white.

 

UTS

[Channon's Sideburns]

Nobody really knows just how skint we are or whether Lowe, Wilde and Crouch will as a last resort avoid administration by digging deep.

 

Sometimes on here the shortest posts make the most sense.

 

More smoke and mirrors in the Boardroom..? Probably.

[chuz]

Think we need to put a few things into perspective here. Lowe would not be given the club if we go into admin. His record will be 2 relegations in his last 3 years at the club. No court will release a company to someone who shows that level of mis-management. Add to that he has no money and has never put any money or gained investment into the club.

 

St Marco, I do not doubt your view here, but if this is the case I would be interested to know how the following took place

 

http://mobiletoday.co.uk/news.aspx?id=49162&fid=150

 

and, assuming what took place at JAG Communications is legal, what is stopping SLH going down the same route. I was astonished when I saw the story about because I did not think it was possible to do this but it seems it is and I am concerned the same could happen to SLH. There may be a good reason why it cannot, but I would just like to know what the score is.

[Big Bad Bob]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but we can't just decide to go into Admin can we!

 

Doesn't one of our creditors have to call in the debt first, and then we have to demonstrate we can't pay it etc. etc. etc.

[Whitey Grandad]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/uploads/documents/nov_08/sfc_1227479896_Southampton_Leisure_Holdings_p.doc

I said 'detailed'...

[Whitey Grandad]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/uploads/documents/nov_08/sfc_1227479896_Southampton_Leisure_Holdings_p.doc

I should have added 'up-to-date'

[trousers]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but we can't just decide to go into Admin can we!

 

Doesn't one of our creditors have to call in the debt first, and then we have to demonstrate we can't pay it etc. etc. etc.

 

I'm no expert (anyone noticed yet?!) but there are two ways of going into Administration, one compulsory due to action by creditor(s) - i.e. as you describe above - and the other is 'voluntary'. I believe you can go into voluntary administration at any point that you can demonstrate that the company isn't a "going concern" (or indeed is likely to stop being a going concern and a projected date in the future??).

 

And SFC/SLH stated in last year's annual report that their "going concern" status was in jeopardy if additional funds didn't materialise in the short to medium term....

[SaintDonkey]

In the present financial climate I fear that going into administration would be a disaster. Even if it is seen as inevitable it needs to be put off for as long as possible in the hope that the global economy starts to recover to the extent that people are willing to take on risky investments again - because let's face it investing in a football club is about the riskiest investmnet there is.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Asministration is INEVITABLE if we go down, the club CANNOT survive on crowds of less than 10k.

 

OUr fanbase is very fickle and won't turn up to watch us play Hereford, Yeovil, Carlisle etc , that is a FACT

 

Waiting is not the only option, it is quite easy to make Lowe and Wildes positions untenable. Anyway, this thread is about administration, which we are heading for full steam, regardless of who is CHairman.

 

The question is whether it would be better to take the -10 this season or next.

 

I would like to think that there is at LEAST a 8-10k hardcore fanbase who would turn up for Hereford etc but you're right, the 'fairweathers' will CERTAINLY stay away. Surely taking the deduction this year, starting 'fresh' in League 1 looking to bounce straight back into the championship is the best idea surely?

[Chez]

if we go into administration now then not a single fan is going to pay for an individual match day ticket as we will be relegated. With a minimum of 3000 turning up for most games that adds up to £420,000 in lost revenue on tickets alone (based on £20 a ticket).

[St Marco]

St Marco, I do not doubt your view here, but if this is the case I would be interested to know how the following took place

 

http://mobiletoday.co.uk/news.aspx?id=49162&fid=150

 

and, assuming what took place at JAG Communications is legal, what is stopping SLH going down the same route. I was astonished when I saw the story about because I did not think it was possible to do this but it seems it is and I am concerned the same could happen to SLH. There may be a good reason why it cannot, but I would just like to know what the score is.

 

The difference here is that John George was the founder and sole owner of the company. He has paid half a million to remain in control of the company while also agreeing to pay the cash owed to the banks and the customers. The big difference is that the guy obviously cares about the company and is trying hard to save it and the staff. The fact he will pay off the money owed himself is a big difference to what normally happens. If he didn't do that i doubt they would have given it to him. However by doing it that way means the company can get rid of a lot of debts by moving the assets to a new company. If/when we go into admin they will take a long look at Lowes history of running the books hence that is what they are interested in. I have no doubt they will see he himself as well as his associates have not put anything into the club and the only way they got investment was to get loans from the bank. All of which now have crippled us.

[trousers]

Quick question.....

 

Who, or what, decides which Administration company gets the gig?

 

And who are the likely candidates?

[Windmill Arm 2]

If this club went into administration I would be gutted, so do I want us to go for it?

 

 

Dont be fukkin daft!

[saintjay77]

Quick question.....

 

Who, or what, decides which Administration company gets the gig?

 

And who are the likely candidates?

 

Doesnt that depend on who decides to go into administration?

 

I mean if we as a club decide then do we not contact administrators of our choice? Where as if the bank choose then they send there administrators along to sweep the decks.

 

So if we went into voluntary admin I would say the chances are very high that we eventually come out of the other side with someone at the top that we were hoping to get rid of. Biggest problem there is because of the splits, whoever decideds they want to make a move the others will be there trying to block and with current world finances I doubt there will be a queue of mega rich people lined up to have a pop either. I cant see us coming out of Admin any better off than we would be going in IMO.

[Mole]

I can't ****ing wait for the club to go into admin. To see Lowe and Wilde lose their investment will be very amusing.

[trousers]

Doesnt that depend on who decides to go into administration?

 

I mean if we as a club decide then do we not contact administrators of our choice?

 

So if we went into voluntary admin I would say the chances are very high that we eventually come out of the other side with someone at the top that we were hoping to get rid of.

 

Indeed. That's what I was alluding to. Seems like a conflict of interests to me...

 

Shouldn't the Administrators be 100% independent?

[Window Cleaner]

I can't ****ing wait for the club to go into admin. To see Lowe and Wilde lose their investment will be very amusing.

 

 

 

Not to mention your hero Crouch.

He also will lose his 2 million quid.

He won't like that one bit, even if he says he doesn't mind, he f*cking well does.

 

It will also remove him from the corridors of power at SFC for ever,same as Wilde;

The other one?? not so sure, he has the least to lose and the most to gain..

 

He has had his saalry for many years, any original investment that he made personally (not so much huh!) has been restored thrice over. He will laugh and say "I told you so". you wanted me out in 2006 and there you had your way, now you've both gotten a 2 million quid jab in the arse and I'm still here, better off than either of you.

We must NOT go into administration, good people will lose and the not so good will be AOK as per usual.

[saintjay77]

Indeed. That's what I was alluding to. Seems like a conflict of interests to me...

 

Shouldn't the Administrators be 100% independent?

 

I am not saying they wont be independant but if you had to call the administrators and had a choice of calling 1 yourself or letting the bank send who ever they want what would you do?

 

There must be some advantage of picking your own administrators even if it is just to look favourably on you when you come back to bid for the club.

[saintjay77]

Not to mention your hero Crouch.

He also will lose his 2 million quid.

He won't like that one bit, even if he says he doesn't mind, he f*cking well does.

 

It will also remove him from the corridors of power at SFC for ever,same as Wilde;

The other one?? not so sure, he has the least to lose and the most to gain..

 

He has had his saalry for many years, any original investment that he made personally (not so much huh!) has been restored thrice over. He will laugh and say "I told you so". you wanted me out in 2006 and there you had your way, now you've both gotten a 2 million quid jab in the arse and I'm still here, better off than either of you.

We must NOT go into administration, good people will lose and the not so good will be AOK as per usual.

 

 

But the skates will claim a moral victory and be able to say I told you so when Lowe fails and thats all that matters so no point in talking any kind of sence whant so ever!

[JohnnyFartPants]

Not to mention your hero Crouch.

He also will lose his 2 million quid.

He won't like that one bit, even if he says he doesn't mind, he f*cking well does.

 

It will also remove him from the corridors of power at SFC for ever,same as Wilde;

The other one?? not so sure, he has the least to lose and the most to gain..

 

He has had his saalry for many years, any original investment that he made personally (not so much huh!) has been restored thrice over. He will laugh and say "I told you so". you wanted me out in 2006 and there you had your way, now you've both gotten a 2 million quid jab in the arse and I'm still here, better off than either of you.

We must NOT go into administration, good people will lose and the not so good will be AOK as per usual.

 

I have no idea how people come up with post administration scenarios about who will be left here and who will be gone etc. Surely nobody knows anything about how it will pan out?

[trousers]

I am not saying they wont be independant but if you had to call the administrators and had a choice of calling 1 yourself or letting the bank send who ever they want what would you do?

 

There must be some advantage of picking your own administrators even if it is just to look favourably on you when you come back to bid for the club.

 

I think we're on the same wavelength (no offence)

[Mole]

Not to mention your hero Crouch.

He also will lose his 2 million quid.

He won't like that one bit, even if he says he doesn't mind, he f*cking well does.

 

It will also remove him from the corridors of power at SFC for ever,same as Wilde;

The other one?? not so sure, he has the least to lose and the most to gain..

 

He has had his saalry for many years, any original investment that he made personally (not so much huh!) has been restored thrice over. He will laugh and say "I told you so". you wanted me out in 2006 and there you had your way, now you've both gotten a 2 million quid jab in the arse and I'm still here, better off than either of you.

We must NOT go into administration, good people will lose and the not so good will be AOK as per usual.

 

In your opinion. I don't share it though.

[Saintandy666]

If we got 10 points deducted effectively relegating us deffo, how many would turn up at St. Marys for the remainder of the season?

[OldNick]

I can't ****ing wait for the club to go into admin. To see Lowe and Wilde lose their investment will be very amusing.

Are you for real with that comment?

It may hurt MW but RL wont be too devastated financially. he will still have his home and river bank to fish on and go shooting , while saints fans will trudge to watch L1 football at best. forget not the victims whose busainesses will be effected by bad debt.It will hurt a lot more small people than those 2

[OldNick]

If we got 10 points deducted effectively relegating us deffo, how many would turn up at St. Marys for the remainder of the season?

I would and I suspect the many hardcore fans who are saints fans, the plastics deserted us ages ago.

[Window Cleaner]

In your opinion. I don't share it though.

 

 

What is there not to share Stanley.

Crouch and Wilde will lose lots of money.

We are fairly sure that Wilde's came from Merlion funds rather than his own pocket but Crouch? It's his money,he was foolish,he's going to get shafted.

 

Self made men hate just 2 things, daddy's boys and losing their money.

[Mole]

Are you for real with that comment?

It may hurt MW but RL wont be too devastated financially. he will still have his home and river bank to fish on and go shooting , while saints fans will trudge to watch L1 football at best. forget not the victims whose busainesses will be effected by bad debt.It will hurt a lot more small people than those 2

 

To put it bluntly i don't care. Any business that has not demanded cash on delivery at SFC only have themselves to blame. Also we're going into League 1 anyway which will results in lower gates and therefore admin anyway - better to take the points hit NOW rather than guarentee we get relegated to league 2 next season which is what will happen with a 10 point deduction.

[saintjay77]

I have no idea how people come up with post administration scenarios about who will be left here and who will be gone etc. Surely nobody knows anything about how it will pan out?

 

I dont think he is suggesting who will end up with anything. He is just saying who will lose.

 

Crouch put his own money in so if the admins come in and he walks away he has lost allot of his own money.

 

Wilde supposedly put in Meridions money so if he walks away he rights it off from a business that seems is up the creek further than SFC

 

Lowe put in a little money and has been paid for over 10 years so more than likly earnt that money back and some so if he walks away he probably loses the leasts.

 

So those wanting admin just to hurt the pockets of the devil Lowe might actually be hurting the pockets of there own man?

[Mole]

So those wanting admin just to hurt the pockets of the devil Lowe might actually be hurting the pockets of there own man?

 

Such is life.

[saintjay77]

To put it bluntly i don't care. Any business that has not demanded cash on delivery at SFC only have themselves to blame. Also we're going into League 1 anyway which will results in lower gates and therefore admin anyway - better to take the points hit NOW rather than guarentee we get relegated to league 2 next season which is what will happen with a 10 point deduction.

 

most of that is fair enough as its for football reasons. Your previous dig was just about how it will effect lord numb nuts.