'Going concern'

[Frank's cousin]

With all the recent and current speculation on Administration - I remembered something publsihed in the Financial statemnet last NOvember that was of interest then, but easily overlooked:

 

 

 

 

''Going concern

 

The Directors have prepared cash flow forecasts for the period to 30 November 2009 which include the sales of various assets, further cost reductions and deferrals, and rely on the support of the bank and loan note holder.

 

The Group currently manages its working capital through a bank overdraft facility and in addition has issued long term loan notes to finance the development and construction of the St Mary's Stadium.

 

Whilst the Group presently has an overdraft facility, for £4.5m, the Board remain in negotiations with Barclays Bank, who are seeking a progressive reduction in their position, and the loan note holder. These negotiations involve the Group having to achieve further significant asset sales in 2009, which the Board are confident they can achieve, but there can be no certainty at this time. Furthermore the Group are seeking to reschedule the payment of certain current liabilities, and the Board are confident that these will be successfully negotiated.

 

In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility being discussed and the agreement still to be reached with the loan note holder such that the facilities would be withdrawn, alternative financing would need to be found for the Group to continue as a going concern. The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources. The Board continues to explore avenues for external funding. Based on the above, the Board consider it appropriate to prepare the accounts on a going concern basis.

 

The above matters indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast material doubt over the Group's ability to continue as a going concern. The accounts do not include any adjustments that would result if the Group is unable to continue as a going concern.''

 

The points of interest:

 

1. The date of the prepared cashflow forecast being November 30 - with the proviison to make further saving and asset sales - firstly, its mentioned that this may take time, so it copuld be presumed that the bank have agrred to this and understand that asset sales may not happen during the open season... hense no sales in Jan?

 

2. The agreement clearly states that additional sales WILL be necessary butthese asets do not necessarily mean players, but could mean Jackson's farm etc.

 

3. ''The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.''

 

This is the most interesting bit - to me it suggests that they do have feelers out or potentially could eventually instigate the deal with Crouch? as surely any 'funding' internally would include him in siome way? What do you all make of this and is there anything of value in this statement or is it still too wishywashy?

[Channon's Sideburns]

With all the recent and current speculation on Administration - I remembered something publsihed in the Financial statemnet last NOvember that was of interest then, but easily overlooked:

 

 

 

 

''Going concern

 

The Directors have prepared cash flow forecasts for the period to 30 November 2009 which include the sales of various assets, further cost reductions and deferrals, and rely on the support of the bank and loan note holder.

 

The Group currently manages its working capital through a bank overdraft facility and in addition has issued long term loan notes to finance the development and construction of the St Mary's Stadium.

 

Whilst the Group presently has an overdraft facility, for £4.5m, the Board remain in negotiations with Barclays Bank, who are seeking a progressive reduction in their position, and the loan note holder. These negotiations involve the Group having to achieve further significant asset sales in 2009, which the Board are confident they can achieve, but there can be no certainty at this time. Furthermore the Group are seeking to reschedule the payment of certain current liabilities, and the Board are confident that these will be successfully negotiated.

 

In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility being discussed and the agreement still to be reached with the loan note holder such that the facilities would be withdrawn, alternative financing would need to be found for the Group to continue as a going concern. The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources. The Board continues to explore avenues for external funding. Based on the above, the Board consider it appropriate to prepare the accounts on a going concern basis.

 

The above matters indicate the existence of a material uncertainty which may cast material doubt over the Group's ability to continue as a going concern. The accounts do not include any adjustments that would result if the Group is unable to continue as a going concern.''

 

The points of interest:

 

1. The date of the prepared cashflow forecast being November 30 - with the proviison to make further saving and asset sales - firstly, its mentioned that this may take time, so it copuld be presumed that the bank have agrred to this and understand that asset sales may not happen during the open season... hense no sales in Jan?

 

2. The agreement clearly states that additional sales WILL be necessary butthese asets do not necessarily mean players, but could mean Jackson's farm etc.

 

3. ''The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.''

 

This is the most interesting bit - to me it suggests that they do have feelers out or potentially could eventually instigate the deal with Crouch? as surely any 'funding' internally would include him in siome way? What do you all make of this and is there anything of value in this statement or is it still too wishywashy?

 

 

If Lowe and Wilde had access to any funds themselves, then surely the best time to put it in was when they came back???

 

I would estimate that they have funds available....but will only put them in when the time is right.

 

I've felt all along that Lowe has a little consortium already lined up for Admin...hence Wilde's decision to share the duvet.

[JohnnyFartPants]

If Lowe and Wilde had access to any funds themselves, then surely the best time to put it in was when they came back???

 

I would estimate that they have funds available....but will only put them in when the time is right.

 

I've felt all along that Lowe has a little consortium already lined up for Admin...hence Wilde's decision to share the duvet.

 

From a business point of view, the best time to put funds in is only when you really, really have to.

[trousers]

Cheers for highlighting the statement FC. I've been alluding to this "going concern" malarkey for a while now, as illustrated by the number of people no longer wearing their pants on here....

 

Anyway, from what was posted last week, I assume this is an agenda item at tomorrow's board meeting....?

[Frank's cousin]

If Lowe and Wilde had access to any funds themselves, then surely the best time to put it in was when they came back???

 

I would estimate that they have funds available....but will only put them in when the time is right.

 

I've felt all along that Lowe has a little consortium already lined up for Admin...hence Wilde's decision to share the duvet.

 

Uhm not sure, the above seemsto make it clear that they would look to internal investmnet BEFORE admin - or to prevent it. Wildes decison to share the duvet, was more about control of his destiny if you ask me.... Crouch had him on the outside and all these rumopurs of SISU etc potentially leaving him with cash again but out of the potentailly lucrative property opportunities that would be posiible in the future..

[Toomer]

If Lowe and Wilde had access to any funds themselves, then surely the best time to put it in was when they came back???

 

I would estimate that they have funds available....but will only put them in when the time is right.

 

I've felt all along that Lowe has a little consortium already lined up for Admin...hence Wilde's decision to share the duvet.

 

I have had the same thoughts, he may have a group of backers in the wings but they are keeping their powder dry.

[Channon's Sideburns]

Uhm not sure' date=' the above seemsto make it clear that they would look to internal investmnet BEFORE admin - or to prevent it. Wildes decison to share the duvet, was more about control of his destiny if you ask me.... Crouch had him on the outside and all these rumopurs of SISU etc potentially leaving him with cash again but out of the potentailly lucrative property opportunities that would be posiible in the future..[/quote']

 

I think you're right Frank, I've never believed that Mikey Gelding was much of a real fan to be honest, perhaps that was what Lowe saw through at the beginning...

 

For me, it's always been about the property parts that he could gain through...I also think his company accounts are a red herring as well...my guess is that he has money stashed.

[Frank's cousin]

I think you're right Frank, I've never believed that Mikey Gelding was much of a real fan to be honest, perhaps that was what Lowe saw through at the beginning...

 

For me, it's always been about the property parts that he could gain through...I also think his company accounts are a red herring as well...my guess is that he has money stashed.

 

I think Wilde like most of us would be attracted to the 'glamour' of the football environment - it would certainly appeal to ego, mine included, but5 that yes ultimately he saw that we had development potential away from football. I have nmo real problem with that provided the benefits are loaded in teh clubs favour, but its the spin and rhetoric that came before that I found difficult to swallow.

 

When Wilde originally spoke to Lowe to see if they could work together, how do we know that they simply did not fall out over (speculation alert).... Lowe: sorry mike, but we cant touch JF at the moment. The market is suspressed and we wont get it rezoned for some time... I'm also wanting to keep it out of the media and let te current option on it expire before we move on this in the future... Wilde: sorry rupes, merilion and I want to move now, I'm going to have to go in with CRouch and MC and see if they will be more supportive...

[SaintRobbie]

With all the recent and current speculation on Administration - I remembered something publsihed in the Financial statemnet last NOvember that was of interest then, but easily overlooked:

 

 

 

3. ''The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources.''

 

This is the most interesting bit - to me it suggests that they do have feelers out or potentially could eventually instigate the deal with Crouch? as surely any 'funding' internally would include him in siome way? What do you all make of this and is there anything of value in this statement or is it still too wishywashy?

 

This was last November. As I recall Crouch was making his offers in December/January.

 

I think this could just as easily be the opt out of administration that leads Askham and Lowe to further increase their strangle hold on the Club let alone see a change through Crouch... Wilde's lost interest.

[Weston Saint]

You all read too much into the statement on internal sources.

 

I am pretty sure I know what it meant and it was not Lowe, Wilde, Crouch or any other shareholder. Sorry but it is dead in the water. It did not come to pass and not though any fault on the boards part.

[Gemmel]

You all read too much into the statement on internal sources.

 

I am pretty sure I know what it meant and it was not Lowe, Wilde, Crouch or any other shareholder. Sorry but it is dead in the water. It did not come to pass and not though any fault on the boards part.

 

Obviously interested to know what you are refering to, but the statement about internal sources would only be applicable if the bank removed our overdraft facility and the note holder refused our new terms. Unless both of those things have happended, i would guess that its not what you are referring to

[Weston Saint]

Obviously interested to know what you are refering to, but the statement about internal sources would only be applicable if the bank removed our overdraft facility and the note holder refused our new terms. Unless both of those things have happended, i would guess that its not what you are referring to

I know the bank are putting on pressure to reduce the overdraft but I am not sure of the present position on this. I am unaware of any problems with the loan note holders. I was not referring to those two. It would serve no purpose saying any more. I just wanted to remove any thought that it might be referring to Shareholders investment. As far as I know it was not.

[Gemmel]

I know the bank are putting on pressure to reduce the overdraft but I am not sure of the present position on this. I am unaware of any problems with the loan note holders. I was not referring to those two. It would serve no purpose saying any more. I just wanted to remove any thought that it might be referring to Shareholders investment. As far as I know it was not.

 

 

Thanks Weston. I have to say at the time i thought it must be referring to shareholder investment or more specifically Crouch, but probably just a case of adding 2 + 2 and coming out with 5.

[dubai_phil]

TBH FC, it is only the opinions expressed regularly by us on on here that believes that the Board have NOT been looking for funds. We all assume that they have sat there and done nothing simply because it is an ego trip for the Directors.

 

Like much else we have no idea of knowing if it is just urban legend now or whether they may have been exploring other avenues or even IF such avenues exist.

 

I for one have been sceptical on here that those avenues exist in today's climate, but who knows, for all we know maybe in real life Salz & Lowe are best buddies (yeah right) but we speculate on so much and in reality these days we get so few snippets.

 

The proof will be when they need/expect the revenue from Season Ticket sales.

[1965onwards]

There is no way that anyone will pay a premium for Saints at the moment.

 

But picking up from administration,that is a totally different matter.

[Window Cleaner]

There is no way that anyone will pay a premium for Saints at the moment.

 

But picking up from administration,that is a totally different matter.

 

 

 

Isn't something supposed to be happening about administration about now?

 

I'm sure this very forum assured me it was only last week.

[1965onwards]

The club administers on a daily basis.

[aintforever]

In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility being discussed and the agreement still to be reached with the loan note holder such that the facilities would be withdrawn' date=' alternative financing would need to be found for the Group to continue as a going concern. The Directors would then consider seeking additional opportunities for finance from internal sources. The Board continues to explore avenues for external funding. [/quote']

 

I wouldn't read anything into this at all, all it says is that if we're skint we're going to have to find some money from somewhere. The hint of internal or external sources is just to make shareholders think there might be a chance of investment, they are not going to say "In the event that the Group do not comply with the terms of the new overdraft facility the club is screwed."