lordswoodsaints Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 ..going out of business and having a rupert lowe consortium what would you choose? Me,I would have to go with the lowe option,I would hate it but at least we live to fight another day. Perhaps we could have a poll mods ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_mears Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Going out of business and starting as afc southampton, ala wimbledon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Out of business = out of the league and the end of SFC. No choice, really. If Lowe takes over again at least we know he's not immortal - it would end eventually. Any new club just could not be SFC. If it was the only choice, it would get my support. I just couldn't bring myself to truly support any other existing team. Let's just hope it doesn't come to that - looks like we'll find out within a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 ..going out of business and having a rupert lowe consortium what would you choose? Me,I would have to go with the lowe option,I would hate it but at least we live to fight another day. Perhaps we could have a poll mods ? Go for Lowe and you will end up with both anyway. Two for the price of one. I have to question the sanity of any consortium backer that would support Lowe after his track record of destruction at this club. I am beginning to think that going out of business may be the only way he will release his grip on the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugh Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Surely Lowe's reputation is just so damaged now that no-one will touch him? He might believe that he was totally blameless, but everyone else can see through him. Can't they?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Surely Lowe's reputation is just so damaged now that no-one will touch him? He might believe that he was totally blameless, but everyone else can see through him. Can't they?! Apart from his mates such as Tom Scott (according to rumours). As I said, friendship will only take somebody so far where money is concerned. I dont reckon it will happen anywhere apart from in Lowe's mind, myself, but it looks like he will try to never let go of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Just a quick question - hypothetical - If Lowe came back with money and a plan - but as a result fans stayed away so it went tits up, would that be Lowe's fault or fans? TBH I think most fans are more pragmatic - if there is money which leads to success, most wont care who is involved - whether its dodgy russian arms dealers or the 'duckhunter', success on the pitch is what leads to full houses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Just a quick question - hypothetical - If Lowe came back with money and a plan - but as a result fans stayed away so it went tits up, would that be Lowe's fault or fans? TBH I think most fans are more pragmatic - if there is money which leads to success, most wont care who is involved - whether its dodgy russian arms dealers or the 'duckhunter', success on the pitch is what leads to full houses IF it were to happen, it has to be with a long, long-term plan. He has to prove to the fans that he is interested in the football team and not the quarterly results - with words AND deeds. He has an AWFUL lot of respect to earn back...And it aint going to be easy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 IF it were to happen, it has to be with a long, long-term plan. He has to prove to the fans that he is interested in the football team and not the quarterly results - with words AND deeds. He has an AWFUL lot of respect to earn back...And it aint going to be easy.. Has he earnt the right to have time to win that respect though? It would be his third bite at the Cherry, his first was shrewd for a time then turned to disaster, second an unmittigated failure. I have absolutely no inclination to give that man the time of day, therefore I would back any new club that may form from our ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 If Lowe does come back, then in my eyes we would cease to exist anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 It's not a question that can be answered sensibly anymore sadly because of the depth of feeling towards him. All I'll say is whoever is in charge, whatever their plan, it has infinitely more chance of working if there's a full stadium bringing in money. I don't know how this season would have gone if we'd had 30k each week for instance. Maybe just as ****, but I think we'd have had more chance. But Lowe knew his presence would hit attendences so he can't complain about that. Although I still don't believe it made more than 1k or 2ks difference, with far more people returning for cheap tickets or man utd than anything to do with Lowe. But those are facts people don't want to see. Even saturday was the lowest final game of the season attendence for quite some time, and embarassing given the severity of the situation. I think rightly or wrongly the attendence being hit was dopwn to Lowe in that he appointed JP and Wotte - had that worked out and we had been miod table pushing pllayoffs we would ahve seen bigger attendances irrespective of Lowe, - because iy failed and were ****e, the level of interset dropped compounding teh problem, so Lowe need sto accept that although it was not his pressence that caused the reduction in attendence his actions were ultimately responsible for it. We have to admit that outside teh 15000 or so hardcore, the remianing 30,000 occaisionals simply dont want to see mediochre or crap football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooohTerryHurlock Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Out of business = out of the league and the end of SFC. No choice, really. If Lowe takes over again at least we know he's not immortal - it would end eventually. Any new club just could not be SFC. If it was the only choice, it would get my support. I just couldn't bring myself to truly support any other existing team. Let's just hope it doesn't come to that - looks like we'll find out within a week or so. .... We are only a part of history... The club you supported today didn't start out as Southampton Football Club, it started under a different name, It is a point in time where we are at a crossroads, I pray that Lowe has the good sense to stay away - and allow us to move on for the good of the club. If he comes back we will have to see what happens. But for sure the club will only survive if we unify and with Lowe here again that WILL NOT HAPPEN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 I think Tom Scott would be the new chairman If Rupert was in the background, I'd rather that happened than Saints go under Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 I cannot see Lowe putting in any of his own cash but if he came back the under threat season ticket sales for Div 1 would be further damaged and this shortfall would be have to be covered by the buyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 I have said on here in the past that Lowe could probably do a decent job in a Peter Kenyon at Chelsea - type role, maybe under Tom Scott, but we all know that Lowe wouldnt be satisfied with that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Go for Lowe and you will end up with both anyway. Two for the price of one. I have to question the sanity of any consortium backer that would support Lowe after his track record of destruction at this club. I am beginning to think that going out of business may be the only way he will release his grip on the club. You never ever answer the question, do you? It is a multiple choice question -you choose either a or b a) bankruptcy & the end for SFC b) Lowe back in charge Can you manage that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 You never ever answer the question, do you? It is a multiple choice question -you choose either a or b a) bankruptcy & the end for SFC b) Lowe back in charge Can you manage that You forget option c) The founding of a new club at a lower league level by the fanbase. A continuation of the club by those it exists for, us, the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=11781 Wonder if opinions have changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 You never ever answer the question, do you? It is a multiple choice question -you choose either a or b a) bankruptcy & the end for SFC b) Lowe back in charge Can you manage that Nope. Its called having an OPNION. Life is not black-and-white, however the intellectually limited try to portray it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Nope. Its called having an OPNION. Yum yum, I love opnions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 I have not been in putting money I can't really afford, to help keep this club afloat, only for the main architect of the clubs demise to return on the cheap. That will be it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Yum yum, I love opnions Clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Engine Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 If it's Lowe or nothing then it will be Lowe, and there's nothing any of us fans can do to stop it bar threatening an all-out boycott ... I won't be buying tickets while Lowe's involved with the club in any capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Clown. Says the man in the Rorschach mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wopper Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 If you wanted all Saints assets sold off Lowe would be the perfect choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicko Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Tom Scott appears to have lost some of his fortune in the credit crunch http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/04/25/fortunes-slump-for-jerseys-rich/#comment-31486 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 (edited) ..going out of business and having a rupert lowe consortium what would you choose? Me,I would have to go with the lowe option,I would hate it but at least we live to fight another day. Perhaps we could have a poll mods ? Having Lowe come back again would be the same as going out of business I am talking about the FOOTBALL TEAM ....... something Lowe has never had any real interest in ......... all he has ever tried to do is run a PLC, as has staed that fact on MANY occasions ....... Edited 27 April, 2009 by SaintRichmond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Tom Scott appears to have lost some of his fortune in the credit crunch http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/04/25/fortunes-slump-for-jerseys-rich/#comment-31486 Yes but he still has a few bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 IF it were to happen, it has to be with a long, long-term plan. He has to prove to the fans that he is interested in the football team and not the quarterly results - with words AND deeds. He has an AWFUL lot of respect to earn back...And it aint going to be easy.. To be fair Alpine, Lowe was already operating a long, long term plan back in 2006 but the fans didn't have the patience to bear with him and nor did Crouch of course aligning himself with Wilde. I think we can respect Lowe based on where we were then as for this season he made mistakes but they were mere scratches compared to the damage caused by the wounds of the previous two seasons, and anyone in charge this season had a task akin to King Canute to turn the club around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 You forget option c) The founding of a new club at a lower league level by the fanbase. A continuation of the club by those it exists for, us, the fans. Colin that would be the same as option a. Anyway with our fansbase and so called fan groups alledgedly all representing the fans such as Saints Trust, SISA, SoS and nor forgetting this forum who has more members than all of them we would end up with more Southampton clubs than popular football team suffix. Southampton United, Rovers, Athletic, Wanderers, Academicals, of the South, Docks, Avenue, Common, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Tom Scott appears to have lost some of his fortune in the credit crunch http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/04/25/fortunes-slump-for-jerseys-rich/#comment-31486 A bit like saying he has suffered from getting a year older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 To be fair Alpine, Lowe was already operating a long, long term plan back in 2006 but the fans didn't have the patience to bear with him and nor did Crouch of course aligning himself with Wilde. I think we can respect Lowe based on where we were then as for this season he made mistakes but they were mere scratches compared to the damage caused by the wounds of the previous two seasons, and anyone in charge this season had a task akin to King Canute to turn the club around. That long, long term plan got us relegated. Not sure I have much faith in it moving forward. And that long, long term plan failed to invest properly (at all...) after the success of an FA Cup Final and a good finish in the Prem, with a great manager at a helm. Even moderate, considered investment would have helped to consolidate our position from that year. So that long, long term plan not only failed to move us forward, but in fact got us relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Nope. Its called having an OPNION. Life is not black-and-white, however the intellectually limited try to portray it. It was a question, not asking for an opinion (or opnion for the intellectually limited). I have long noticed this - you always waffle rather than answer. Be brave, put your head above the parapet once in a while - we'd all respect you more for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 You forget option c) The founding of a new club at a lower league level by the fanbase. A continuation of the club by those it exists for, us, the fans. Wouldn't work for me, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamster Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Southampton St. Mary's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WATERSIDEIFASAINT Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Going out of business and start a new club.Lowe must not come back!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 (edited) Colin that would be the same as option a. Anyway with our fansbase and so called fan groups alledgedly all representing the fans such as Saints Trust, SISA, SoS and nor forgetting this forum who has more members than all of them we would end up with more Southampton clubs than popular football team suffix. Southampton United, Rovers, Athletic, Wanderers, Academicals, of the South, Docks, Avenue, Common, etc In your opinion it would be the end. For me it would be the chance to start completely afresh. This all goes back to the perception of what the club is argument we had a while ago. If I remember correctly we had to agree to dissagree. Using your logic you think the AFC Wimbledon IS NOT a continuation of the old Wimbledon FC because it is not a part of the organisational structure which took it the 'franchise' away from the fans. Whereas I see it as being a continuation because it is supported by those fans that used to follow Wimbledon before Winkleman took it away from them. We will never agree, so stop trying! Edited 27 April, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 If we go out of business - anything 'new' wont be the same team I have supported fro the last 36 years (since age of 4 ;-)) so would probably just give up on it all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 In your opinion it would be the end. For me it would be the chance to start completely afresh. This all goes back to the perception of what the club is argument we had a while ago. If I remember correctly we had to agree to dissagree. Using your logic you think the AFC Wimbledon IS NOT a continuation of the old Wimbledon FC because it is not a part of the organisational structure which took it the 'franchise' away from the fans. Whereas I see it as being a continuation because it is supported by those fans that used to follow Wimbledon before Winkleman took it away from them. We will never agree, so stop trying! The fanbase is divided though Colin and none of us can argue that so you can't ignore that two clubs at least could rise from the ashes of SFC or none at all due to apathy. Stop posting if you don't want me to challenge your thinking! We will never agree? I have disagreed with many and likewise many with me but we have still occassionally managed to find some common ground except, they never told me to stop trying to debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheff Saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Well, if someone (the council) could buy the stadium and someone else could cobble a team together it appears we could start again in the conference. Given we'd be debt free and only two leagues lower, i'd take that and tell Lowe where to go. In all honesty it would probably only be a season until we got back level with if we didn't go bust and Lowe was in charge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 It was a question, not asking for an opinion (or opnion for the intellectually limited). I have long noticed this - you always waffle rather than answer. Be brave, put your head above the parapet once in a while - we'd all respect you more for it When you ask someone to answer a question about their personal perspective about something, you are asking for their opinion I answered the question with my opinion. Sorry you dont understand that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 (edited) The fanbase is divided though Colin and none of us can argue that so you can't ignore that two clubs at least could rise from the ashes of SFC or none at all due to apathy. Stop posting if you don't want me to challenge your thinking! We will never agree? I have disagreed with many and likewise many with me but we have still occassionally managed to find some common ground except, they never told me to stop trying to debate. No problem with debating, but when it's patently obvious we have no common ground on this issue and never will it seems utterly futile in continuing. I conceed that it could be an extremely problematic and politcal process setting up a new Southampton FC, but I would support it if it formed as it would in my opinion be the continuation of Saints from the only active and actual part of the ashes that where left, the fans. Issues with setting one up are all pie in the sky right now and as such cannot be commented on, only theorised. And if you are trying to make a point via speculatory theory it all becomes a bit redundant, because the same trick can be played both ways. You feel comfortable making a point based on something that doesn't exist yet, I couldn't possibly comment. You have your standpoint, I have mine. Next question please. Edited 27 April, 2009 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 If we go out of business - anything 'new' wont be the same team I have supported fro the last 36 years (since age of 4 ;-)) so would probably just give up on it all.... Correct a Ford Focus is not an Escort. I would support my local non-league teams as and when I could without the ties or costs of a Season Ticket. I barely watch Premiership or Champions League Football these days as I have little affinity with it and prefer to watch the live games from the early rounds of the FA CUP or lower leagues. Histon v Leeds this season was by far the most entertaining game I've watched on TV this season. You never know a cup run from the 1st round could be on the cards - wouldn't happen with a fan run club as you need to be in existence in November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 That long, long term plan got us relegated. Not sure I have much faith in it moving forward. And that long, long term plan failed to invest properly (at all...) after the success of an FA Cup Final and a good finish in the Prem, with a great manager at a helm. Even moderate, considered investment would have helped to consolidate our position from that year. So that long, long term plan not only failed to move us forward, but in fact got us relegated. Rob I was talking about how Lowe reacted to relegation and his prudent approach to dealing with it. Hence 'Lowe in 2006'. Relegation from the Premiership is and always will be an occupational hazard for any but a handful of big clubs in this day and age and we were lucky at times to stay as long as did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 How can you really have a long term plan in football unless you are very rich and can keep all your best up and coming players. Our problem is we planned for the future and forgot the present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 No problem with debating, but when it's patently obvious we have no common ground on this issue and never will it seems utterly futile in continuing. I conceed that it could be an extremely problematic and politcal process setting up a new Southampton FC, but I would support it if it formed as it would in my opinion be the continuation of Saints from the only active and actual part of the ashes that where left, the fans. Issues with setting one up are all pie in the sky right now and as such cannot be commented on, only theorised. And if you are trying to make a point via speculatory theory it all becomes a bit redundant, because the same trick can be played both ways. You feel comfortable making a point based on something that doesn't exist yet, I couldn't possibly comment. You have your standpoint, I have mine. Next question please. Futility will stop then Colin when you don't start threads that will lead to unsubstantiated theories. You're asking a question based on a scenario that doesn't exist and being all moralistic about a club run by the fans for the fans and then tell us it's all pie in the sky. Which of course it most certainly is and ergo we agree, thank you. Seems to me Colin you are arguing with yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 How can you really have a long term plan in football unless you are very rich and can keep all your best up and coming players. Our problem is we planned for the future and forgot the present. True enough and its all relative, If all it takes is a second to score a goal that could define your season then 90 minutes is a very long time in football. Seriously, though this season I think planning went of the window it was reactionary 'bush fire fighting' and no time for anything else. The intervening Loweless years I think we planned to much for the present, IMO blowing budgets and caution and forgot about the long term stability of the club. Bottom line we ran out of patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 True enough and its all relative, If all it takes is a second to score a goal that could define your season then 90 minutes is a very long time in football. Seriously, though this season I think planning went of the window it was reactionary 'bush fire fighting' and no time for anything else. The intervening Loweless years I think we planned to much for the present, IMO blowing budgets and caution and forgot about the long term stability of the club. Bottom line we ran out of patience. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 Futility will stop then Colin when you don't start threads that will lead to unsubstantiated theories. You're asking a question based on a scenario that doesn't exist and being all moralistic about a club run by the fans for the fans and then tell us it's all pie in the sky. Which of course it most certainly is and ergo we agree, thank you. Seems to me Colin you are arguing with yourself. Yet you still respond. I am talking about an idea that should the worst happen can occur. I am stating that it is something I would support. You are essentially saying that it would be unworkable, despite having no evidence to support this, you have come to this conclusion essentially just on the basis of your own instincts. I feel it is rediculous to pan an idea that is in its earliest phase of creation based on the instinct of someone who is intrinsically against the concept in the first place. I respect it is something you would want nothing to do with, thats fine, that is entirely your own perogative, lets hope is doesn't come to what many like me are considering. If the worst does happen though, as stated in the research thread I posted a good 55%+ (based on the fanbase represented on this forum, which as the largest fan forum on the internet should indicate a fair cross section) would support a new entity, they would still want a club to support. The issue, as discussed in this thread becomes far more clouded if previous board members of any kind (Crouch, Wilde, Askham, Lowe et all) get back involved. And yes, I would rather support a splinter club. If no such entity would arise though, I honestly couldn't say what I would do, I would probably continue as a dissillusioned fan as I have the past 5 years, more resource to be tapped into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nineteen Canteen Posted 27 April, 2009 Share Posted 27 April, 2009 :rolleyes: I rest my case, patience and petulance are rarely commom characteristic in a person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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