Billy Sharp

Goal scoring in the lower leagues and pre season kickabouts hardly prove he's good enough for the prem.

 

It's should be obvious to anyone who's seen him play that he's not enough for the prem.

 

Adkins and Pochetino have assssed him correctly.

Would that be like assessing Lambert was not good enough for the premiership without even playing a game. He showed enough doubters they were wrong, perhaps billy might as well.

Would that be like assessing Lambert was not good enough for the premiership without even playing a game. He showed enough doubters they were wrong, perhaps billy might as well.

No, they're different players with different abilities.

If you want comparables within our club look at Hammond, Barnard, Chaplow, Forte. They weren't good enough either.

The thing is the vast majority of us knew that the above 4 weren't up to it. All of them played a role in getting us from league 1. Hammond arguably played a bigger role than Billy.

Based on your, and others, argument that Billy might have been good enough if we just gave the poor lad a crack presumably you say that 4 should all have had a crack too?

I just don't get why Billy is so deserving of much more sentiment and support than his peers.

Probably thinking of 'restraint of trade' but Saints are not restraining Sharp as he is on a contract to the club and is being paid, quite generously it would seem. The contract will not include any obligation to select him ahead of other players.

It is understandable that he won't take a pay cut when he has so long left on his contract. If he went down from £18,000 to say, £10,000 and if he still has 2 years to go, that pay cut would cost him close to £1m. Might not earn that much in the rest of his career.

Although he did well for us in the run up to promotion, two sets of coaching staff must have good reasons for their assessments and its hard to see him competing with Osvaldo and Rickie, or JayRod come to that, whilst we also have younger strikers with more of a future than Sharp. Unless the club decides to cut their losses by subsiding his wages we could have him here until the end of his contract and get nothing back towards his original fee.

Saw somewhere that the club is entitled to £3m from the Bale transfer for developing him as a young player, so maybe there could be some unexpected money that could be used to offload Sharp.

OK, I understand that bit. What I don't get is what (another) poster mentioned. ie IF, in your present job, you had an opportunity to go to another job (Employer), under what legislation could your present employer STOP you leaving ?

OK, I understand that bit. What I don't get is what (another) poster mentioned. ie IF, in your present job, you had an opportunity to go to another job (Employer), under what legislation could your present employer STOP you leaving ?

You'd have to work out your contract, currently I'm on a 3 month contract so if I want to go to another job I have to give 3 months notice unless I can negotiate with my current employers.

Billy is contracted to Saints until whenever so, unless the club cancel his contract, he's with us until then. If another club wants him then they have to buy his contract out for a fair price!!

--

And can someone please explain where this bit about Billy having 3 offers from Premiership clubs has come from, no rumours during the summer, nowt.

Billy Sharp started our pre season games (scoring 6 goals in 2.5 games) + started on the bench against Man City and Wigan before his sudden and unexpected loan move to Nottingham Forest.

At the time it was alleged that Billy had turned down a perm move to an unnamed club and wanted to fight for his place at SFC. His contract at the time is alleged to have doubled............... this allegedly upset Nicola a lot! He wanted to make a quick profit on Billy as he is alleged to have wanted a few marquee signing from Italy.

Explains why our most prolific striker ever was over-looked and then banned from staplewood without explanation.

So why have two different managers and two different sets of coaching staff dismissed Sharpe?

Two different managers

Two different sets of coaching staff

One chief exec who has spent ca. 19M on two (as-of-now) unproven and unjustified "upgrades"

I still don't get this.

We don't let Sharp go because we won't subsidise his wages. No one is prepared to pay them, so he sits with us doing nothing but collect his wages at a reported rate of £18,000 a week. So, with NIC, it costs us over £1m for him not to play. Surely it would be better to send him out on loan, pay say half his wage, saving us £500k a year.

While he signed this lucrative contract, and who wouldn't, on the one hand, he should have been aware that this situation might happen, but on the other, I feel that we are playing with his playing career (albeit while still paying him handsomely).

Two different managers

Two different sets of coaching staff

 

One chief exec who has spent ca. 19M on two (as-of-now) unproven and unjustified "upgrades"

One might suggest that Billy returning or playing in the prem might make the "Don" look a bit stuuupid?

Billy Sharp is 27.

Rickie Lambert is 31.

Look at what Rickie has unexpectedly achieved over the past 4 years.

We are paying Billys wages. He has a contract us. He deserves a f**king squad number and a chance to prove himself. We arent exactly spolit for choice.n Two goals in our first 3 games - one a peno and one from a defender.

I would like to know what the f**k he has done to deserve such indifference from an element of our fan base.

EDIT: Oh, I know. He lost a baby and has put a lot of effort into a charity to try to avoid other parents sharing the same intense emotional agony. Wot a bastard.

Billy Sharp started our pre season games (scoring 6 goals in 2.5 games) + started on the bench against Man City and Wigan before his sudden and unexpected loan move to Nottingham Forest.

 

At the time it was alleged that Billy had turned down a perm move to an unnamed club and wanted to fight for his place at SFC. His contract at the time is alleged to have doubled............... this allegedly upset Nicola a lot! He wanted to make a quick profit on Billy as he is alleged to have wanted a few marquee signing from Italy.

 

Explains why our most prolific striker ever was over-looked and then banned from staplewood without explanation.

Without explanation to....?

The fans...?.....club doesn´t have to....

To Billy....?....pretty sure he got an explanation, or are you suddenly a personal friend of his now??

Yep he scored some important goals, but most prolific cause he scored 6 in preseason against mighty Etoile, Wolves and Bristol City??

Or was it the 4 (of 9) goals against mighty Doncaster and Skates you´re thinking of?

Or do you want us to use him as an impact sub?

1 goals in 9 years coming off the bench in competitive games....

Or do you see him as a PL starter, you still haven´t answered that one...??

And now your question back to me (instead of answering) will be....??

All this debate over a decent CHAMPIONSHIP level striker

All this debate over a decent CHAMPIONSHIP level striker

Yes, because he was, and still is, being treated like CRAP.

Yes, because he was, and still is, being treated like CRAP.

Treated like crap whilst cashing a £20k a week salary. Im sure he is fine

Without explanation to....?

The fans...?.....club doesn´t have to....

To Billy....?....pretty sure he got an explanation, or are you suddenly a personal friend of his now??

 

Yep he scored some important goals, but most prolific cause he scored 6 in preseason against mighty Etoile, Wolves and Bristol City??

Or was it the 4 (of 9) goals against mighty Doncaster and Skates you´re thinking of?

 

Or do you want us to use him as an impact sub?

1 goals in 9 years coming off the bench in competitive games....

 

Or do you see him as a PL starter, you still haven´t answered that one...??

 

 

And now your question back to me (instead of answering) will be....??

Billy scored 15 goals in 13 starts (playing 90 mins in just 5 games) why have you highlighted his goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth, Etoile, Wolves and Bristol City and tried to spin it as a negative? a bit odd.com

Treated like crap whilst cashing a £20k a week salary. Im sure he is fine

Its all about money, is it ? You sound like a Man U fan.

Thanks for letting us know hes had a 10% pay rise, too..

Billy scored 15 goals in 13 starts (playing 90 mins in just 5 games) why have you highlighted his goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth, Etoile, Wolves and Bristol City and tried to spin it as a negative? a bit odd.com

Did I write too long for you to be able to read it all and answer the questions?

Should I perhaps write a bit slower so you can follow??

Its all about money, is it ? You sound like a Man U fan.

 

Thanks for letting us know hes had a 10% pay rise, too..

You know his exact wage packet then do you?, no neither do I.

He is an employee of the club not deemed good enough for the first team in the premier league by 2 managers.

No matter what Southampton FC do you are never happy & never will be.

Billy scored 15 goals in 13 starts (playing 90 mins in just 5 games) why have you highlighted his goals against Doncaster, Portsmouth, Etoile, Wolves and Bristol City and tried to spin it as a negative? a bit odd.com

You're wasting your time. He fails to get the point that none of the others managed a similar scoring record against similar opposition

Billy Sharp is 27.

 

Rickie Lambert is 31.

 

Look at what Rickie has unexpectedly achieved over the past 4 years.

 

We are paying Billys wages. He has a contract us. He deserves a f**king squad number and a chance to prove himself. We arent exactly spolit for choice.n Two goals in our first 3 games - one a peno and one from a defender.

 

I would like to know what the f**k he has done to deserve such indifference from an element of our fan base.

 

EDIT: Oh, I know. He lost a baby and has put a lot of effort into a charity to try to avoid other parents sharing the same intense emotional agony. Wot a bastard.

Of the rubbish you've posted that's up there.

Doing charity work and suffering in his family life does not make Billy a prem player and/or deserving of a chance.

Do those factors make him more deserving of a squad place than say Hammond was?

You deserve a chance if you're good enough. He isn't.

Of the rubbish you've posted that's up there.

 

Doing charity work and suffering in his family life does not make Billy a prem player and/or deserving of a chance.

 

Do those factors make him more deserving of a squad place than say Hammond was?

 

You deserve a chance if you're good enough. He isn't.

Its lucky "geniuses" like you didnt write off Rickie 4 or 5 years ago, then....

Yes, because he was, and still is, being treated like CRAP.

In what way? Nobody will buy him or take him on loan cos of wages. The club aren't involving him as he's not in the managers plans.

Please explain in simple terms how he's being treated like crap.

Its lucky "geniuses" like you didnt write off Rickie 4 or 5 years ago, then....

I haven't mentioned RL but he got his chance as he's good enough.

Please answer the question.

Of course if we did play him for ten mins and he didn't score a hat-rick, Alpine would be saying what a load of c**p, Cortese/MP/Adkins doesn't know what they are doing, the whole club is rubbish etc ad nauseam as usual.

Billy Sharp is 27.

 

Rickie Lambert is 31.

 

Look at what Rickie has unexpectedly achieved over the past 4 years.

 

We are paying Billys wages. He has a contract us. He deserves a f**king squad number and a chance to prove himself. We arent exactly spolit for choice.n Two goals in our first 3 games - one a peno and one from a defender.

 

I would like to know what the f**k he has done to deserve such indifference from an element of our fan base.

 

EDIT: Oh, I know. He lost a baby and has put a lot of effort into a charity to try to avoid other parents sharing the same intense emotional agony. Wot a bastard.

Don't be ridiculous.

I agree with those who consider him not good enough to play for us in this division. Far worse players have played in the Premier League, but we are aiming for far higher standards than we ever have before and Sharp isn't even nearly at that level. Sharp, in my eyes, fits into the same bracket as the likes of Earnshaw, Chopra, Kenny Miller (when in their prime) - great to help get you out of the Championship but not what you need to flourish in the Premier League. He is a great goalscorer in lower leagues, excellent finishing and positioning, but to be worth your place in the team in this league you have to do far more than that - bring others into play and have the strength and/or speed to compete physically. As much as I like him as a player (most clubs in the Championship would be lucky to have him), I don't think he has the required attributes and I predict he would be handled with relative ease by most PL defenders.

You're wasting your time. He fails to get the point that none of the others managed a similar scoring record against similar opposition

And yet he failed to score in so many games at Forest when other players in Forest scored in those games.....maybe it´s those players we should try to sign with that kind of logic?

Of course if we did play him for ten mins and he didn't score a hat-rick, Alpine would be saying what a load of c**p, Cortese/MP/Adkins doesn't know what they are doing, the whole club is rubbish etc ad nauseam as usual.

I dont think so, because in that 10mins Billy would more offer more penetration and opportunity than that overrated web-site w*nking material that is Gaston Ramirez........

Don't be ridiculous.

 

I agree with those who consider him not good enough to play for us in this division. Far worse players have played in the Premier League, but we are aiming for far higher standards than we ever have before and Sharp isn't even nearly at that level. Sharp, in my eyes, fits into the same bracket as the likes of Earnshaw, Chopra, Kenny Miller (when in their prime) - great to help get you out of the Championship but not what you need to flourish in the Premier League. He is a great goalscorer in lower leagues, excellent finishing and positioning, but to be worth your place in the team in this league you have to do far more than that - bring others into play and have the strength and/or speed to compete physically. As much as I like him as a player (most clubs in the Championship would be lucky to have him), I don't think he has the required attributes and I predict he would be handled with relative ease by most PL defenders.

Such bold statements about someone who has had almost no opportunity to prove or disprove them, and was our sharpest (no pun intended) striker in the pre-season last year..........

It's a simple question. Could Billy Sharp have contributed any less than Mayuka last season, or even this season? I dont think Billy Sharp is good enough for a long term answer in the premier league but given the choice as to who i'd rather have coming off the bench for the last 10 minutes when chasing a game and the options are Sharp and Mayuka i know which one i'd chose.

wish my employer would let me sit at home for 2 years on full pay

i have absolutely no dislike for Billy ,i just find it strange that 2 managers both have seen him in close quarters and don't deem him good enough for the prem.If anyone else thought he was good enough then surely they would have come in for him before the transfer window closed.

He is either not good enough or must be a complete **** in the changing room and a major disruptive influence,either way i'll trust the clubs assessment of him .

wish my employer would let me sit at home for 2 years on full pay

i have absolutely no dislike for Billy ,i just find it strange that 2 managers both have seen him in close quarters and don't deem him good enough for the prem.If anyone else thought he was good enough then surely they would have come in for him before the transfer window closed.

He is either not good enough or must be a complete **** in the changing room and a major disruptive influence,either way i'll trust the clubs assessment of him .

Thats an appalling comment, with absolutely no grounding whatsoever. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it is slanderous.

Maybe the CEO doesnt want him coming on and saving our bacon and having the owner turn round and say "now, tell me, why did we spend that 19M quid again ???"

Yet, you didnt even consider the possibility...

It's a simple question. Could Billy Sharp have contributed any less than Mayuka last season, or even this season? I dont think Billy Sharp is good enough for a long term answer in the premier league but given the choice as to who i'd rather have coming off the bench for the last 10 minutes when chasing a game and the options are Sharp and Mayuka i know which one i'd chose.

It's a silly question as the manager didn't have the benefit of hindsight when he made his decision.

That said, I think Mayuka has more ability and pace than Billy and I can understand why he was chosen ahead of him.

I get the point that Billy could have snatched a late goal from the bench but I'm of the 'if you're not good enough to start you're not good enough to be on the bench' school of thought.

It's a silly question as the manager didn't have the benefit of hindsight when he made his decision.

 

That said, I think Mayuka has more ability and pace than Billy and I can understand why he was chosen ahead of him.

 

I get the point that Billy could have snatched a late goal from the bench but I'm of the 'if you're not good enough to start you're not good enough to be on the bench' school of thought.

Quelle Surprise....

It's a silly question as the manager didn't have the benefit of hindsight when he made his decision.

 

That said, I think Mayuka has more ability and pace than Billy and I can understand why he was chosen ahead of him.

 

I get the point that Billy could have snatched a late goal from the bench but I'm of the 'if you're not good enough to start you're not good enough to be on the bench' school of thought.

Well Sharp featured in the first couple of squads of last season, before Mayukas arrival where he was then sent out on loan, he also came on against Wigan. So clearly the manager at the time did think he could offer us something. We have the benefit of hindsight Egg, do you think Sharp would have contributed less than Mayuka last season?

So why have two different managers and two different sets of coaching staff dismissed Sharpe?add to that an apparent lack of interest by any real team of note and a not so great loan spell at Forest last season.

if we wanted to send out some of our kids on loan to get some game time i'm sure we would either pay their wages or subsidise them.we dont want Sharpe for whatever reason so why should the club subsidise a loan move.

Two different managers have been forced by their Chairman for in house political reasons not to include Sharp in their planning. The club are treading on very sensitive ground in that Billy Sharp was lured from his previous club by false pretenses and signed a valid contract which is still valid. Sharp has no justification to waver the terms of that contract, especially in that he has not be given a fair chance to dhow whether or not he is capable of playing Premier League football. It just would not stand up in court.

Crystal Palace are a Premier League Club who inquired about taking Sharp on loan. For whatever reason nothing became of it.

Quelle Surprise....

You gonna explain why personal tragedy and charity work makes a player deserving of a chance?

You gonna explain why Billy's commitment to the cause makes him more deserving of a prem chance than, for example, Hammond who after all helped us to 2 promotions?

Thats an appalling comment, with absolutely no grounding whatsoever. In fact, I'd go as far as to say it is slanderous.

 

Maybe the CEO doesnt want him coming on and saving our bacon and having the owner turn round and say "now, tell me, why did we spend that 19M quid again ???"

 

Yet, you didnt even consider the possibility...

Still you think you have enough grounding to deem that after two weeks you dont know if Osvaldo wants to be here??

Goodness, what a strange debate. Sharp seems like a lovely guy. He is obviously a talented footballer, who seems like an honest pro. He is a good Championship player, who has seemingly been judged to be someway short of the required quality for a Premier role by at least two managers. He is currently being paid the most he will probably ever earn in his career, and would be crazy to accept a pay cut.

So, currently we are being told in the press that we are demanding that any club wanting loan Billy has to stump up 100% of his wage. It's fairly obvious that a number of Championship clubs would like to have him in their team, but all seem to want him on the cheap. Saints are simply playing hard-ball, and demanding that they stump up. That is the Cortese way - he seems to consistently negotiate superb deals.

I'm sure that unless Billy has done something irrational that we haven't been told about, that he will be training at Staplewood with our other reserves. I doubt that there is any truth in the 'banned from Staplewood' rumors, unless we are unaware of something.

I would argue that based on what we currently know, we are treating Billy fairly. He is well paid; (almost certainly) able to use our training facilities; able to choose to move (if he drops his wage demands); and probably still able to force his way into our team (that would IMO take a minor miracle, as Billy would need to step up several levels, while simultaneously seeing our squad hit by a injury crisis).

I can only conclude that the current press attention is an attempt by one party or another to help Billy get a loan move. Either we are trying to inform other clubs that they have to improve their offers; or Billy's agent is trying to keep him on the radar of other clubs. I'm confident that before long a loan deal will be arranged, that all parties will find acceptable (probably not for 100% of Billy's wages, but probably for a much higher contribution that other clubs have so far been willing to offer).

In what way? Nobody will buy him or take him on loan cos of wages. The club aren't involving him as he's not in the managers plans.

 

Please explain in simple terms how he's being treated like crap.

Because, IMHO, he is caught between a Rock and a hard place.

A) He's on Prem wages, which the Club Authorised in the first place

B)The Club no longer wants him, because they deem him NOT Prem Quality after all.

C) He now finds himself STUCK, because no CCC, Div 1, or Div 2 Club can , or will pay Prem Wages for him

I therefore think, in effect. he is being prevented from getting work, ie PLAYING FOOTBALL, by the actions of his present employers. ie SFC

Finally, I agree with an earlier poster. NC would look really stupid if Sharp were ever be allowed to at least show whether he could play in the Prem. Much rather have Ramirez, the "70 minute man" run around looking pretty trying to justify Nic's £12M outlay eh

Well Sharp featured in the first couple of squads of last season, before Mayukas arrival where he was then sent out on loan, he also came on against Wigan. So clearly the manager at the time did think he could offer us something. We have the benefit of hindsight Egg, do you think Sharp would have contributed less than Mayuka last season?

Your 1st point makes my point. The manager assessed then both and preferred Mayuka.

Your 2nd point is impossible to answer. Mayuka was a let down, no doubt about it but whether Billy would have done better is speculation. My opinion though is that he would have struggled in the prem but we'll never know.

Two different managers have been forced by their Chairman for in house political reasons not to include Sharp in their planning. The club are treading on very sensitive ground in that Billy Sharp was lured from his previous club by false pretenses and signed a valid contract which is still valid. Sharp has no justification to waver the terms of that contract, especially in that he has not be given a fair chance to dhow whether or not he is capable of playing Premier League football. It just would not stand up in court.

 

Crystal Palace are a Premier League Club who inquired about taking Sharp on loan. For whatever reason nothing became of it.

What makes you so sure The Don has a personal vendetta against Sharp?

And on the off chance that Palace did make an enquiry maybe just maybe they weren't prepared to pay his wages.circa 20K a week sounds about right for a prem striker these days.

Because, IMHO, he is caught between a Rock and a hard place.

 

A) He's on Prem wages, which the Club Authorised in the first place

 

B)The Club no longer wants him, because they deem him NOT Prem Quality after all.

 

C) He now finds himself STUCK, because no CCC, Div 1, or Div 2 Club can , or will pay Prem Wages for him

 

I therefore think, in effect. he is being prevented from getting work, ie PLAYING FOOTBALL, by the actions of his present employers. ie SFC

 

Finally, I agree with an earlier poster. NC would look really stupid if Sharp were ever be allowed to at least show whether he could play in the Prem. Much rather have Ramirez, the "70 minute man" run around looking pretty trying to justify Nic's £12M outlay eh

That's the nature of football. Martin, Forte, Barnard are on an outrageous wage and won't go anywhere if they don't lower his wage expectations. They can sit tight and get paid if they want but its their choice.

Hammond moved on and I'm doubtful he's earning the same as he did here.

The club are doing nothing wrong.

Your 1st point makes my point. The manager assessed then both and preferred Mayuka.

 

Your 2nd point is impossible to answer. Mayuka was a let down, no doubt about it but whether Billy would have done better is speculation. My opinion though is that he would have struggled in the prem but we'll never know.

Really ? Your "opinion" ???

Earlier, it was "He isnt good enough"

And yet he failed to score in so many games at Forest when other players in Forest scored in those games.....maybe it´s those players we should try to sign with that kind of logic?

He was Nottingham Forests top goal scorer!

Really ? Your "opinion" ???

 

Earlier, it was "He isnt good enough"

 

What are you babbling about?

Of course my opinion that he's not good enough is my opinion. What are other opinion could I express?

Jeez. Anyway, what about my earlier question?

Crystal Palace are a Premier League Club who inquired about taking Sharp on loan. For whatever reason nothing became of it.

Cant be true mate - Saint Charlie has a friend of a friend whose brother told him bla bla bla

#freeBilly

#freeBilly

classic

What makes you so sure The Don has a personal vendetta against Sharp?

And on the off chance that Palace did make an enquiry maybe just maybe they weren't prepared to pay his wages.circa 20K a week sounds about right for a prem striker these days.

I did not mention "personal vendetta" These are your words. I mentioned in house political reasons which are the words chosen by Sharp himself as to why he was moved out on loan.

Palace has several options on gaining unexpected promotion. Kevin Phillips (40 years) reversed his decision to retire at the end of last season and was given a new one year contract.

* Unrelated. When Billy Sharp went out on loan to Forest, Sean O'Driscoll. his former Doncaster manager was in charge and was allowed to play his usual game. However from late December last year he was sidelined at first by Billy Davies who wanted the team playing differently. Sharp eventually fought his way back into contention under Davies.

He was Nottingham Forests top goal scorer!

But he wasn´t Saints top goalscorer, so that must mean the management did right to deem him not good enough then using your logic on that one????

Your 1st point makes my point. The manager assessed then both and preferred Mayuka.

 

Your 2nd point is impossible to answer. Mayuka was a let down, no doubt about it but whether Billy would have done better is speculation. My opinion though is that he would have struggled in the prem but we'll never know.

Did they? Mayuka was brought in the day before for the window shut, with Sharp sent out on loan. lets be frank, it was all a bit of a surprise to everyone as Sharp had featured thoughout preseason and in the first two games. If he didn't feature in the managers plans then why did he use him and why didn't we offload Sharp sooner?

The proof is also in the pudding regarding Adkins attitude to Mayuka, a handful of sub appearances and one start where he was nothing short of woeful and hardly got a kick after that until Adkins was sacked. MP seemed to have the same view as he too would hardly give him a kick, even going on record as saying he needs to buck his ideas up. Now he too is out on loan for a season. It seems MP certainly doesn't rate Mayuka or Sharp and Adkins wasnt a fan of Mayuka.

Of course its speculation as to if Sharp would have done any better, but given Mayukas contribution to our season seems to have been about 20 minutes of decent play when he came on against Spurs, its not a great leap to say he couldn't have done much worse is it.