CB Fry

The Ronnies weren't, but M&W had more of a stand up act than any of the Pythons ever had. You started talking about Composers, and manufactured pop stars, and the Pythons and Armando and Chris Morris so i think the conversations broadened out from stand ups, did it not? But yeah, you've really got me in the corner now.

You haven't got me in a corner. Rolling out a one line distillation of a Radio Times article on "alternative comedy" doesn't dilute the fact that both of those double acts have a cultural legacy that has endured. You can sneer at them all you like, but M&W never made a program in my living memory, so they have lasted. Just because you don't value them doesn't mean they don't have value. "People value creators" you said earlier in this thread. What both thoses acts "created" is on the screen and will (and has) endured. There are literally thousands of people watching Veep in this country. Okay, tens of thousands. If it was on BBC I would have seen it, but I haven't. Sure I will someday. I have no doubt it is jolly good but it unlikely to be "timeless" (your words) is it? And you do realise that Armando and all the rest grew up watching The Two Ronnies, yes?

Christmas Day 2023 BBC1 8pm This Morning With Richard Not Judy Remembered Timeless cultural icons Rich and Stu are joined by Paul Puttner and the actor Kevin Eldon for an hours' reminiscence about how like they are enduring comic icons who have "lasted the distance" and, like, no-one remembered The Two Ronnies twenty years after their last series. With music by someone, like, real and who has "lasted the distance". Elastica or someone.

All the sixth form ramblings in the world won't stop Elvis being Elvis and Sinatra being Sinatra. You specifically mentioned people "remembering" classical composers. Well people will remember those two. And Q magazine/Paul Morleyisms about "birth cry" of Helter Skelter? Purlease. Even ten Beetles fans in a room won't agree about that. Personally, I'd say it started with Please Please Me. And I specifically put those comedians in British cultural history. They are a massive part of British cultural history, the existance of Python makes no difference to this irrefutable fact. Remember it's only you saying people only value own-written material. It's simply not true. Python are important, as are the Beatles, but just because you over-estimate the value of "stuff wot I wrote" doesn't mean the world agrees with you. They are too busy listening to Dusty Springfield and The Supremes. And Elvis and Sinatra "won't last the distance" but Stewart effing Lee will? Jesus Christ you are mental.

This is precisely why Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra will never leave a lasting cultural legacy like what Mumford and Sons will do like. And why Britain will always cherish Lee and Herring and Newman and Baddiel over Morecombe and Wise and The Two Ronnies.

What point are you making here? Despite this relative "smallness" that you are trying to prove, Lampard still went. Your yeah-but-no-but stuff only helps your argument if Lampard decided to stay at West Ham and "develop his career" there. He didn't. Because Chelsea were bigger than WHU. Much like Man U are bigger than we are.

Err, no. Players that leave mid ranking clubs to join big clubs always fail.

Yes but they were deluded players. Lallana is clever enough to know he would fail at a big club so won't bother.

It wouldn't be "jumping at the first chance", would it? He's decided to stay with us before. And just to be clear - In your opinion is he good enough to play for Man City/United or not?

I've already said I don't think it will happen. Nice try.

Classic m-board thinking. Absolute self-righteous fury when SFC players are overlooked for international call-ups in favour of players from "big clubs". But if our player joined a "big club" the m-boarders start saying how our player wouldn't get a game there. Such unshakable belief we have in our lads.

Yeah, that's how professional footballers minds' work: "I won't sign for them because I'll just be a failure like those other players". No self belief at all. Amazing they even climb out of bed in the morning.

Unlikely. He was hit and miss for us last season, so they'd be spending twenty odd mill on a half-season wonder. Not quite Arsenal signing Ozil is it?

Are you seriously suggesting that Adam Lallana hasn't "built his career up over a number of years" and is only "looking for a short cut to success?". Seriously? After the service he has given us? Adam Lallana owes us nothing, and frankly is not really going to achieve much more at Saints. If he wants to move to a bigger club, good luck to him. Personally I can't see it, mainly because I don't think it is the kind of signing Moyes needs to make right now. Now Man U fan is going to be dancing in the streets if they sign Adam Lallana.

If we lose five in a row from here he will be sacked. But he won't.

I actually think it might work. I thought he came across well over the last few days. He could be Spurs equivalent of David O'Leary taking over at Leeds. Chuck the youngsters in and off we go to the Champions League. I could be wrong, it could be a complete cluster**** but hey, I don't really care.

Completely agree on the academy - one new player a year is as best as we can expect, and that would be amazing. The Lallana that played in L1 wouldn't get anywhere near a Premier first team. We simply aren't going to magic up half-teams of Prem-ready players at will. Disagree about our transfer record - you're going to get your fair share of duds at whatever price you pay, and we've done well with Lovren and Victor. I think our record under Cortese stands up pretty well, and we have the right policy - I'd rather we "wasted" money on early-twenties Gaston than, say a four year contract for Defoe, Berbatov, whoever. Frankly we bought well enough to finish top eight and have a go at one of the cups. And we will do that, FA Cup draw notwithstanding. I don't think we should be breaking the bank to chase much beyond that. It's up to the manager to forge the extra five percent, not for the chairman to chuck money at it.

The hay-like aroma of a beautifully constructed strawman argument. "Rest our best players for half a dozen league games?" What guff. Can you name one club - and I will give you every single domestic cup quarter finalist for the last twenty years to chose from - that have done anything remotely like that?

You is funny man.

You are the one dropping the R word into every comment about Cup runs. You're equating cup runs with relegation time and again - you've even done it again here. Hilariously, you are so obsessed with relegation and cups going hand in hand you are trying to rewrite history for the most successful Saints team in a generation as having "relegation form". Eighth effing place - Eighth! - kinda shows that up as a strawman made from all the straw in Hampshire. Our parody of you is spot on. You are nuts.

Terrible league that was, with the Arsenal invincibles into their second season, overtaken by a obviously terrible Man United team. Beckham, Ruud, Keane. Pub standard at best. Those teams and the whole division much worse than the breathtaking talent in the league these days. I mean, it was, like ages ago and stuff.

20 points in 17 games from Jan 2003, so would equate to mid 40 points in a whole season was not relegation form. Not sure you can accuse others of strawman arguments of you are coming out with that nonsense. And how many times are you going to equate cup runs with relegation? Getting tiresome Mr Gummidge.

Except it isn't a fact.

So I say we can finish eighth and that would be brilliant, and that makes me snide, not positive and deluded. Fair enough. See you in May.

I think you need to ask yourself the same question. People, particularly you, stalk me by name on here. You've never met me or knew me but feel the need to do that. I really seem to get to you and don't know why.