CB Fry

"if you don't let us in, we'll force the gates and wreck your town". You're off your head if you think a govt report was ever going to blame the Liverpool fans in any way. Not great PR and there would be even more uproar than there was anyway. But that line is enough to show that fan agression was a major issue throughout the eighties and was undoubtedly an issue 20 years ago today. The Sth Yorks police cover up is another story and there is still justice to be done and my point is not about anti Liverpool or defending the police.

I like the way you have defined "the most diehard fans" as the fans whos attendance patterns just happen to be.....exactly the same as yours. Well done, you win the prize and definitely are the bestest. Stu is right. ST holders get priority and deservedly so, unless you think the ticket office should spend fifteen minutes per fan explaining that they "live in Epsom, can't afford this, and I would but, and I've done this and and and and" and then make a decision about who fits the most deserving "diehard" category. ST holders get priority, the end. And I am not a ST holder. And if you've decided away fans take all the credit for the away wins, then thanks a bunch for your **** poor showing at Wolves the other day when we really needed you. Or was that one not your fault?

Must be a different Taylor report that talked about there being ticketless fans there, and a different Taylor report that specifically quoted the phrase "if you don't let us in we'll force the gates or wreck your town". The final report coyly refered to that quote being used "at other times", Taylor was no fool: he was never going to lay that charge at the Liverpool fans that day because it would become too much of a story, but the inference is a clear as day that was obviously a factor.

But then if you are a midlands/northern based Saints fan and you go to the away games that are close by then the "thick and thin" argument doesn't really stand up does it - you're going to the games through convenience rather than rabid loyalty. And good luck to you. People go because they want to, no one forces anyone. I hate all these debates anyway. I am a self confessed rubbish fan. But I'll be at Forest, I'll promise you. Because its just down the road. I would be going to that game regardless of whether it meant promotion, relegation or nothing at all.

Nice try. No-one is saying they deserved anything, but they are quick to spread blame but not take responsibility. I'll repeat - if there weren't thousands of ****ed up and ticketless scousers hanging around the ground this would not have happened, regardless of what happened subsequently. And there might have been no cages around the perimeter where it not for Heysel which of course was an event where Liverpool fans completely blamelessly and accidentally caused the death of 39 Juventus fans. But then they started it, la.

To be fair we didn't even sell all the tickets for the DC away leg of the play off final, you could walk up and buy one. And that was to get into the Prem, not to avoid L1. I think there will be plenty of tickets to go round.

Nice try, but I think the wind up has pretty much run its course. Tommy Widdrington, oh yes, oh my aching sides.

LOL. Like examples of Liverpool fans acting like tw a t s are difficult to come by. The worst combination in the world - horrible bullying intimidating gobs hi tes combined with a percecution complex and a gigantic chip on their shell suit shoulder. Liverpool is the only city I've ever felt unsafe in on an away day. Some might believe them to be latter day saints who only ever are done wrong to but the rest of us know different.

The League is the property of The Football League and its members so the Football League have all the "influence" in the world as to whether we stay up or go down. They could kick us out of the league completely if they want. At the end of the day, in their terms we've "cheated" by going into admin - lots of clubs have gone into admin and been punished, and we'll be punished. Our best bet is stay up and get away with it. Second best is stay up on points and get 10 points docked and down. Worst, and by far most likely, is down anyway and 10 points next season. If they don't dock us and we stay up they could face "a large court case" from Forest, Norwich and/or Barnsley as well as any other club showing support - Leeds, Luton, Rotherham, Bournemouth. Being the league is a members club, there will be more members against us "cheating" than for us "cheating". The precendent has been set that going into admin is "cheating" (not my view). We have "cheated" and we will be punished. This "holding company" guff is weasily bravado from Lowe and co thinking they are clever and have outwitted the league, which has probably ****ed them off even more. We haven't got a hope of avoiding penalty. The League is a members club and will do what the hell they want.

This is fair enough, read a good article about all that stuff in the Guardian yesterday. The police have some serious questions to answer, as do the management of SWFC. But the fact remains if there weren't thousands of ****ed up scousers in and around the ground without tickets then the tragedy would never have happened. And there were thousands of ****ed up Liverpool fans in Heysel as well, but of course that was all someone else's fault as well, as it always is when Liverpool are concerned.

Who is the person that is going to show the interest? We don't have anyone around in management (coaching or admin/chief exec) that is likely to be anywhere near the club come August. We barely have anyone in place for the job in hand now. Wotte can't be seen to be preparing for next season, not least whatever he does will look wrong - either presuming success or failure and presuming he'll have a job either way. And he'd get slated for "not concentrating on the current situation". Brace yourself for a scramble around just like the last five seasons. Sorry.

That view may not be shared by Matt Le Tissier, Michael Owen, Paul Gascoigne, David Beckham, James Beattie, at least half the Saints squad at the time, most of the Spurs squad, his old boss as a player and as a manager David Pleat, the entire Wolves squad. Paul Ince is the only player who raves about him. If he was that good explain the utter failure at Spurs, the embarrassment of Wolves - jacuzzis of cash and couldn't even scrape the play offs which even Burley could do - and explain the only person now prepared to give him a job is....Glenn Hoddle. Les Reed was highly rated as a coach by the FA, too.

Err - I was adding to what you said, which is why I said, "can I just add to that". I wasn't disagreeing with you.

Retard. It wasn't a vocal few it was majority of the fan base. And Hoddle would have relegated us just one season earlier than ****flaps did. Hoddle failed, failed, failed, failed at every club or country he's been at except Swindon where he had Glenn Hoddle the player to pick and the five minutes he was at Saints with Dave Jones squad. He's a complete failure and hated by almost every player he's every worked with. Take your posters down you deluded obsessive tool.

You're off your head. We deserve to go down, we've been awful all season. League football usually delivers justice*, and justice for our performances this season is for us to finish second bottom. Even the people saying we only need to stay two points adrift of Forest to have a chance are equally deluded - there are two relegation spots, meaning yeah we could beat Forest and finish above them....third from bottom. It's highly likely the last day scenario will be for us "to beat Forest and and and and and". It aint happening. Forest and Norwich have shown some momentum and one of them will stay up and deserve to. Barnsley have enough points in the bag and a game in hand to easily finish above us - they haven't been bottom three pretty much all season so can't see them starting now - remember the great Plymouth collapse everyone predicted? 4-0 home win. Safe. Oh. Barnsley need to win one out of four. We are relegated and yesterday, although welcome was the dead cat bounce. Oh, and one more thing - if you switched our fixtures around with Barnsley's you'd be saying we'd walk it - away to Coventry and Plymouth: mediocre teams with zilch to play for and away to Reading who are under massive pressure. Home to Wolves, yep, a toughy. Plus that game in hand. We're down, son.

How does Leicester's league position mean that Widdrington would be a success? Tommy Widdrington is not an "upcoming star" of anything. I'm not swallowing this anyway - this campaign is being run by the comedians on this forum, who generally make me laugh on here, so I know its all just a wind up anyway.

Can also add to this that rememberance sunday stopped being about WW1 a long, long time ago. It's about remembering and thanking all servicemen who died in service for this country and others in all conflicts. Ever. For anyone to describe it as "just" remembering the first world war that doesn't mean anything to anyone is crass in the extreme.

What is it with the affinity/passion for the club guff? When does it work - which clubs have really suceeded with a manager with passion for the club/history/affinity etc etc? You'll all trot out Keegan, and then what? Funny how all the successful clubs in this division don't have a manager with any affinity to their club, and all the successful clubs in this top division don't either. And two of our most successful managers had no affinity to us either - Lawrie and WGS weren't exactly destined to manage Saints were they? Call me crazy bonkers, but how about just appointing a good manager?

Even if it is only temporary i think just being out of it for one day would be a massive, massive lift and could see some real believe surge through the squad. The comeback starts tomorrow!

I want us to be taken over by a load of super dooper fans who have chopped up their furniture for firewood and sold it on and did a charity cake day and a bring and buy sale and a pub quiz and a tin with all our holiday change in and guess the name of the teddy and my mate knows someone who owns a scaffolding company and he's pledged two grand and I'm running the London marathon for my mum but she'll probably last a year so all the money can go to the club instead and we've raised nearly fifty odd grand and everything and we don't really have the faintest idea what we are going to do next.

Hang on, where have I even talked about owning the ground/owning the club? You're just making arguments up now Yes, getting the ground debt off our hands which is what admin is going to go a long way to achieving is a good thing. But you seem to be labouring under the aprehension that it is only the super dooper fans groups that have worked this out. It isn't the fans groups that are going to strike a deal with Aviva that involves them cutting and running. It will be a business group with a bit of dough, intent and savvy behind them. If we go down the council-bailing-us-out and them owning the ground it will be a business group that instigates it, not the charity matchers shaking their tins and selling charity cakes at half time. As I said, I grasp the bigger picture while you drone on about charity bloody concerts. When Derry has got his £700,000 in the bank, let me know. And anyway, that's what I am calling obscene. Seeing young people saying they have scraped together a grand of savings and are now prepared to chuck it away on football debt is obscene, completely obscene and I don't think it should be being encouraged. That's my bigger picture son. Get behind the team, pack the ground, but people feeling they have to blow their savings in the middle of the biggest recession since the seventies is obscene. Let a consortium with access to credit do that, not average people on average wages. Let business take on business debt. And yes, I'm a child with pocket money who goes to the pictures before bedtime....but also manage to remember Jossy's Giants which was on TV last in about 1986. Lemon. "Some of us have a club to save". Have you really: the big picture is this process is just serving people's self satisfaction - you're puffing yourself up by the day, Mr Saviour. Come back to me in a month and lets see who has really saved the club.

My user name used to be CB Fry and Lawrie. Until I got fed up with puns and everyone else couldn't get it right when they used it. But it is a good title of this thread. Hats off. And I also like Torres gag about Lawrie and his photo. You can almost see him going in to SMS with it tucked under his arm.

Saint Richmond in utterly clueless post shocker.

Cheers - harsh but funny is what I'm here for! Look, I don't need the "124 years of history" routine, I've got a far better grasp of the bigger picture than you have. Being fan owned is not the way forward and I hope all these groups don't succeed, because I want the club to push forward not backwards as it would. You might think the fan base can raise £24m on the strength of people on a forum blythly promising a grand here and a grand there, but sorry I don't buy it for a minute. And then what, and then what and then what? We all skip off into the sunset and the Premier League? Fan ownership for a club this size is a complete non starter and you're right some of the 34 are those groups and Christ are they wasting Mark Fry's time. More harm than good. Give me businessmen any day of the week - its good enough for the top five, six, seven in the Premier League. It's good enough for the top six of this division. You think we're disorganised now, wait until you have 6,000 fans arguing about who should be Deputy Assistant Chief Treasurer of the Club