Shroppie

But he's right you're having a torrid time. A lot of sensible, logical consensus on here today regarding the futility of a GE, invalidity of the last referendum given evidence of lying at the time and new knowledge of the practical difficulties of leaving, clearly argued. And no effective response - just the usual slogans and irrational outpourings. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It's already happening. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Ticket bought. [emoji106][emoji3] Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

You are so wrong. Opinion polls are showing the LibDems gaining steadily and the clearer the message, the stronger they get. Current polling suggests the Tories will get fewer seats than May won last time, and if we're not out on 31st Oct it'll get much worse fir them as the Farage lot will come back into play. It'll almost certainly be another hung parliament but with the present opposition parties working well together there's a strong chance of a short-term loose coalition to either put a deal, or no deal or remain to a second referendum or actually revoke Article 50. Parliament won't sort this out. A GE wont help at all. Now that the chaotic reality is evident, go back to where we started and ask the people. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yes we would. Supporting Leave is not simple when you're an elected representative whose first responsibility is to protect the interests of your constituents and the country. It's one thing to vote Leave, when you've been promised all manner of things which turn out to be lies and fiction, and told clearly that leaving would be with a very beneficial deal, and another thing to support exit strategies (or lack of strategies) that are worse than the status quo and not in the country's interest. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

We're his lips moving? If so, lying. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I have a cunning plan. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

That's clearly breaking the law and even Johnson has ruled out breaking the law. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Along with saying we have to get this done, implying that we'll all feel better once it's over and trying to distract attention from the appallingly bad thing that's being done to save the Tory Party. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Johnson is increasingly using the argument that we've been discussing Brexit for too long, with the assertion that the British people "want it done". A very standard ploy for anyone struggling to get proposals accepted. "We've spent too long on this. Need to do it". Utterly simplistic and playing on Brexit fatigue. The obvious counter-argument is that much time has been spent on this because it's a bad idea and many sensible people want to stop it. The assertion that the British people want it done is completely untrue. Three years ago, on the basis of lies and misinformation, 51% if those who voted wanted an orderly exit from the EU. It was made clear that leaving without a deal wasn't the plan. Although I'd agree that many want this over, it seems clear there is certainly not a Major for leaving without a deal and very probably not a majority fir leaving at all. Yes, I'd like it sorted, but by revoking Article 50. I take exception to Johnson saying I, and the British people "want this done" and asserting that only means leaving. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I think they believe they can get the EU to refuse an extension. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

We all know politicians lie. What alarms me is that it's now accepted. We are supposed to accept the lies and the weak attempted casual dismissal of evidence that the lies are clearly lies. And gone are the days when a politician exposed as lying shows any contrition, let alone it being regarded as a resigning matter. It's just laughed off with insults. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I'm confused. But as I've been supporting Saints for over 50 years, and I've always worn what I like, had a drink where I like, travelled independently and generally done my own thing, I will be doing precisely the same for this game. You'll spot me. I'm the old, bald, rather fat one wearing colours. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I'll be on the Isle of Strange Relationships early in the afternoon, minding my own business and hoping to stay under the radar. Then quietly getting into the Palace of Congealment, morphing into a shirt-wearing fanatical Saints fan for the glorious victory. Escape plans also in place, but top secret. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I think we'll see some dramatic and outrageous move on Monday. Johnson and Cummings are cornered wild animals and now utterly unpredictable. For example, extending the probation beyond 31st October, saying there's no-one to go to Brussels so we can't ask for an extension. Then no-deal happens by default. I should shut up. I'm giving them ideas. The other possibilities are a VONC in himself, but that could result in a caretaker PM stopping no deal and even securing a second referendum. And to admit you have no confidence in yourself.... Or a simple bill to override the FTPA, allowing a simple majority. But that could be amended in many dangerous ways. Mess. And no more than he deserves. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I think he'd heave a sigh of relief. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

He's said he'd rather be dead in a ditch than go to Brussels and ask fir an extension, which is what parliament is actually requiring him to do if he has no plausible deal (which he doesn't have as he's got no plan). So he can defy parliament which would be an outrage, see him in court and finish any trust in him any his party or resign, which would be surrender. That's why he's having an absolute tantrum to get an election before the summit. If he loses, someone else's problem.(But Corbyn, or whoever, can deal with that by asking for the extension and blaming Johnson for failing to negotiate) If he wins, repeal the Benn Act, forget about a deal, leave with no deal on Oct 31st. Which is why it would be utter folly for anyone in opposition to agree to an election before the extension is actually implemented. Let him stew in his own pompous, idiotic juice and fail miserably. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

You're right, although the SNP gave said they might back a simple vote, and the exiles will still vote with the Tories. There could be time, as prorogation is set for 12th at latest. But the danger of a vote to override FTPA to the Tories is that it could be amended, eg to allow 16 yr olds to vote or, more likely, fix the election date as, say, Oct 30th. Johnson would then have to go to Brussels either to get a deal (he won't be able to) or ask fir an extension (he's refusing). On election day he would stand as a failure who hadn't delivered his promise. Cue Brexit revival. Johnson desperately needs as election before the summit. If he got a majority, he'd repeal the Benn Act before going and we're back with No Deal. Given Johnson's record on lying, and he's desperate now so will certainly lie through his teeth, the opposition can't let him have an early election or one that suspends parliament over 31st October. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yes, Ken Clarke is pro-EU. Yes, he has consistently supported membership. But the simple fact is he has always said he would respect the referendum result and did vote three times for May's deal. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

The key issue for Labour and other opposition parties is how long they force Johnson to stew in his own mess before acceding to a GE. To me the sensible option is as late as possible. Force him to go to the EU summit with no plan, make him renege on his promise no to extend beyond 31st Oct or break the law of parliament then, after Oct 31st, call a VONC and fight an election on the basis of Johnson's failures and bluster. The Brexit Party will come back into play. Anything earlier is risky. Despite parliament's restrictions on No Deal I still wouldn't trust Johnson not to try to force No Deal through during prorogation. Is it now too late to hold an election before the EU summit? Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Your facts are simply wrong. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

They lose, they've got the "Well, only to be expected when they're two divisions above us with loads of money" But they can still insist we were lucky, didn't play well etc. If we don't win, we've got no excuses. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Djenepo was described as a muscle problem. That's more than a knock, but could be any degree of seriousness. They'll be cautious with Redmond. Doubt we'll see him back before Chelsea. Hopefully Bertrand will be back after the break. Will be a novelty having a LB. Obafemi was cramp/tweak in his hamstring. Should be back but worrying how delicate he is. Wouldn't be surprised if N'Lundulu doesn't overtake him in the pecking order. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I've got mixed feelings. Sure, it matters hugely that we beat them convincingly. But I'd have been happy not to have been playing them as we've got everything to lose, they've got everything to gain. I'll probably go, but for the excitement of a local derby, not to be involved in moronic tribalism. Haven't been to FP for 50 years. Be interested to see how much it's deteriorating. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Not sure if that's possible but a safeguard like that is essential. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk