Shroppie

Rubbish. We were very close to scoring two on several occasions. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

We're clearly poles apart on this. Whatever the EU's faults it's a strong union and, firstly, we need to be in it to influence it and secondly are, IMO, much stronger as a nation of part of an alliance, rather than pretending to be an individual superpower. The vote to exit was an alliance of scheming wealthy individuals who saw opportunities for themselves, politicians who saw personal advancement through playing a patriotic card (whilst expecting to lose), manipulators who made money by dreaming up and spreading populist and simplistic slogans, the unthinking majority who believes and lapped up those slogans and sound-bites, and out and out racists. I'm totally committed to Remain and have been throughout. To me, no matter how much you despise the EU, the only rational position is to be part of it. So many benefits it's brought the UK have been carefully ignored or deliberately denied without evidence by Brexiteers. I'm not deluded. I've spent many hours considering arguments and my position is based on logical analysis. so we're never going to agree. I'm not going to say you're deluded, but I do think you've been taken in by propaganda. But I respect your view, even though I think it's misguided. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I pretty well agree. Corbyn is, I think, in favour of leaving but is compromising his principles all the time to try to hold his party together and win votes. The LibDem position is at least clear. If any situation arises in which they can back a confirmatory or second referendum, they will. And they'll campaign in that referendum to remain. In the unlikely event that that the LibDems had a majority, they'd revoke. Whilst some, even in their own party, are uncomfortably with this, I understand the position. If you campaign clearly in a GE on the basis of this action and get a majority, you don't then need a referendum. If we have a GE and Johnson gets a majority, he'll implement whatever he likes. (But not the promises re police, education, etc. which are just lies to get elected. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I've rarely read such self-contradictory jibberish in all my life. Remain elite? Utter rubbish. For your elite, try looking at the likes of Johnson, Gove and Rees-Mogg, all desperately seeking an outcome that will benefit themselves, keep their elitist party in power to keep the vast majority in their place, enable their own tax avoidance and increase their ability to screw the ordinary man and woman in the pursuit of even more wealth. There is no Remain elite. My experience is that those wanting to stay in the EU tend to be intelligent, questioning individuals who don't lap up lies and jingoistic slofans, and can see and understand the disastrous impact of any Brexit, especially a no-deal Brexit. Why can so few people see that the current situation is dominated not by consideration of the national interest, validating or not validating a referendum, but following whatever course Johnson thinks will recapture votes. He's calculated there are more to be won back from the extreme right (Brexit) than from moderates. So he's abandoned any previously-held positions to adopt the Brexit extremist ground. Because he's a liar with no principles. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Well said. As Cameron said, we're now living in a post-truth era. Lying is normal and if you're called out on the lies, you laugh it off, shout down challenges (or in the case of parliamentary, shut them down so lies can go unchallenged). Anything is justified in the name of winning, furthering your own career and saving your party from oblivion. National interest is irrelevant. Appeal to the basest of instincts with simplistic slogans. Worrying times. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

In a GE you vote for a candidate, not a party or a leader. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Why do you fear for our defence? Since the Burnley game we've only conceded 3 goals, all scored by Liverpool and Man U. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

No he shouldn't. It's not a question of him having been tried in those positions. CM is his position but he is usefully versatile enough to fill in other positions - not as strong as first choices but when situations arise, he can do it. And I don't think that playing three similar "flair" players works. We need someone linking defence and attack, having patience when needed. Boufal, Djenepo and Redmond are creative, adventurous players who will lose the ball. Whatever you think of JWP, he retains the ball, can pick a pass and gets into scoring positions. He's the cement that holds the other attacking players together. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

The coalition was an effective government. The LibDems moderated the worst Tory excesses and, as history has shown, gave Cameron a letout on a Brexit vote: the LibDems were blamed for blocking it. But the Tories overdid the dissing of their partners at the next election, particularly over tuition fees that the LibDems as the minor partner could never have carried without Tory support. So Cameron accidentally got a majority and lost his get out of jail card on a Brexit referendum, which he didn't want. He thought he could do the same as he did with the PR referendum promised for the LibDems: call it but campaign against. But he reckoned without UKIP, Farage, lies, aggressive new marketing through social media and simplistic false slogans. The rest is becoming history. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

That too. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

But their policy is clear and unequivocal. They recognise that the simplistic and corrupt referendum delivered a result that is not deliverable. They are all for people having their say, either by voting LibDem in an election and knowing that's a vote for remain, or in a confirmatory vote. Their policy will still be remain, whatever votes take place, because they believe that's the best result for Britain. Unlike the two largest parties who have every shade from no deal to remain in their ranks, and wooly policy. Johnson's hard line isn't representative of his party and he's only following it to try to win back votes from Brexit, save his party and himself. Remember, he was a remainer until he thought backing leave, although he didn't believe in it, would further his own career. No policy in the interests of the country there, just self-interest. Of course they (and all the opposition parties) didn't vote for a GE on Johnson's terms because he's a liar and couldn't be trusted not to manipulation the election date to get no deal through. I don't understand the rest of your points, which make no sense at all. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It's not a question of dropping one since we've never played all three together. I'll guess Redmond will be out for another game or two, then he'll have to earn his place back from one of the others, probably Djenepo. Starting with two of these with the third to come on with fresh legs is a strong option. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I don't think he'd play all three of Boufal, Redmond and Djenepo. JWP for one of them. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

That is the one thing that certainly won't happen Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Johnson is sounding more and more desperate. He's openly accepting that his reason for clinging to leaving on Oct 31st is nothing to do with it being the best thing for Britain. It's about saving the Conservative Party (and, of course, himself) and stopping Corbyn winning an election. He's gambling everything on either miraculously getting a deal (that I don't really think he wants as it won't satisfy the extreme wing of his party or win over the Farage lot) or breaking the law, which he seems to think he can do with impunity, but that will cause a huge war in the courts and parliament. And throw in Cameron carefully choosing his moment to confirm that Johnson is an out and out liar who only chose Leave over Remain ( which he knew was the right option) as he thought it would be better for his career. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I'd prefer to simply revoke Article 50, but this is otherwise the only way forward, in my opinion. Unless we have an election and end up with a majority for leaving or remaining. I think the former is unlikely as there are do many factions wanting different versions of leave. A confirmatory ballot would be fraught with the same problems of lies and manipulation that plagued the referendum, but assuming No Deal is off the table, it would hopefully marginalise Farage and the Brexit Party, who would be torn between supporting a deal and abstaining, maybe letting the revoke option through. But I assume they'd just riot instead. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Thanks. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Wonder if the truth of this can be checked. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Yes. Project Fear. As you say, Farage's instant response to any legitimate evidence of problems or even chaos after Brexit. "Project Fear" needs exposing as it's too easy for the unthinking masses to pick up as a way of avoiding any consideration of real issues and, in two words, laugh them off without any justification, response or evidence. Clever invention of Farage but totally fits his approach - simple slogans with no meaning designed to dismiss questions without answering them. And if that fails, talk over the questioner, All the time with a moronic grin whilst attempting ridicule. Never an answer. Johnson is working on it, but not there yet. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

And they've refused to release the communications between advisers regarding Yellowhammer and prorogation planning, as demanded by parliament. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Very well put, and very true. For many Brexiteers, it's just about winning, never mind the consequences. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Good luck, but it's against the conditions of sale for this match to buy for someone else or sell on a ticket. If I had a ticket I couldn't use, I'd consider giving it away or passing on at face value, but for profit is against my principles. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

It's now being suggested that if, as the judgement agrees, Johnson misled (or even lied to) the Queen about the reason for prorogation, it's a resigning matter, and possibly treason. I bet Queenie is very, very cross. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Will probably be overturned in the Supreme Court and I doubt the English action will succeed, as I imagine BJ has more friends amongst the judiciary south of the border. But highly amusing and satisfactory. I would love to see the opposition parties and Speaker reopen parliament and pass lots of really good laws in the next few days.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Just one point. Democracy means being able to reconsider. It is ridiculous to regard the referendum result as a perfect, never to be reconsidered measure of opinion. Situations change. Facts (and lies) come to light and these quite naturally change views. What was said and promised three years ago has been torn apart. We have a GE every 5 years (or 5 minutes the way things are going). We don't say you voted 5 years ago and it would be undemocratic to challenge that. And for the record on the generational thing, I'm an enlightened 70 year-old. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk