um pahars

Everything I have found suggests that the points deduction came into play at the start of the 2004/05 season Crisis clubs to be docked 10 points By Paul Brown Friday, 26 September 2003 Nationwide league clubs that go into administration from the start of next season will be handed an automatic 10-point penalty under new rules agreed by the Football League yesterday. http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/crisis-clubs-to-be-docked-10-points-581236.html And I think the Derby issue was regarding their restructuring and administration in October 2003 (i.e. after the ruling, but before it came into effect).

But it was a much reduced dividend, and I think 0.5p from memory which would be just under £150,000 so not massive, but at the same time given the ensuing massive reduction in income, it may not have been the best message to be sending out.

But was it implemented the following season as the editorial part seems to suggest????? Although people keep referring to Derby, I have yet to find any evidence that they did indeed manage to circumvent the league's "rules" on this (happy for someone to come up with something).

People all have their own opinions on this and I very much doubt that they will be swayed from them, so therefore I have to agree that we would do better if we just put all this behind us and moved on. I think we should all be careful to ensure the same mistakes are not repeated, but we now have to look forward and try and ignore anyone who attempts to rake up the past, or who causes division or rancour. PS the last bit was not aimed at St Marco, more at those prevously associated with our Club who seem intent on continuing to drag it's name through the mud.

LMFAO I think that actaully proves my point exactly (plus I can't spell viscous!!!!)

A scrappy, flukey and lucky win, followed by a draw Friday. We had better not manage to stay up, only for the League to pull the rug from under us!!!

LMFAO. Of course I spoke to David Jones, he's a very nice guy and I can remember the phone conversation vividly. He was very helpful (as usual) and went out of his way to provide various pieces of information, as well as confirm most of what I thought was indeed correct. I've been correcting you for ages on here (and I notice you conveniently ignored me picking you up with regards the overdraft a couple of days ago). It's your typical style of bluster and knee jerk posting, only to go away and realise that actually you weren't exactly right. That is then followed by your finest trait of never admittig you were wrong and then conveniently try to divert and deflect attention away from your errors and false assumptions. And I've also provided numerous facts and figures on here, very often to counteract your false claims, so to suggest I never provide my own figures really is fantasy stuff (In fact I'm sure some people are bored of all the figures I sometimes quote up on here). The latest being regards the overdraft a couple of days ago and before that I have provided a variety of figures e.g. all the figures relating to the initial construction loan and long term loans to the eventual loan notes which you were extremely confused with and continued to misinterpret (or maybe you've conveniently forgotten how you claimed the £8m increase in "loans" as an injection of capital in your analysis). I'm sure I don't have the facts and figures for everything Saints related and I'm sure I have got some stuff wrong in the past and not understood others, there's nothing wrong with admitting that, after all we're all fallible. However, with you it's no wonder you're so closely allied to Lowe as you would appear to share so many of the same personality traits. And if we're calling other people's judgement in to question, then maybe you need to look closer to home to see how your support for Lowe is just as poor (if not poorer) as he failed us miserably, not once, but on two occasions (then agan, like Lowe you probably htink it is everyone elses fault). So to end, how about answering the question regarding the overdraft during Crouch's tenure, as you seem to have overlooked it (again)

Although Wilde has always avoided the media (well most of the time anyway) and whilst Crouch appears only to look forwards, there can be no denying that Lowe is the bigger pull, not least due to his faux pas and quotes in the past, so agree it's because they think it will fill some airtime or some column inches. But I have to disgaree with this guys. At this time we should be united in finding a way out of the current situation and the sniping from the sidelines does no one any good, particularly in the mainstream media. It can still cause division and controversy. No one should be bigger than the Club and in doing these rounds Lowe is putting himself before the good fo the Club which is unforgiveable. He should either honourably withdraw from these situations or maybe even muck in with trying to find a way out. Going public at this time serves only one thing, to satisfy Lowe's ego, and we've had enough of that over the years.

I don't think there are many who are relishing or celebrating administration, and I think that even the very small minority who think it might be the dawning of a new era will soon realise it comes at a price. Most sensible people realise that many have contributed to our demise and I don't think people see it in the same black and white terms (i.e. Lowe = bad, Crouch = good) as you think they do. There will always be debate how that blame should be apporitioned, but as Crouch was continually saying last night, now is not the time for recriminations, mud slinging and raking up te past. I'm not overly comfortable with the same "faces" popping up again, but just as Richards was involved on Saturday, it probably is seen as a needs must situation in this current hour of need. I would certainly like to see someone else put there head above the parapet, but in the absence of that I would take anyone taking a lead to get us out of this abyss. Hell, if Lowe and Wilde stepped up, threw in some money, apologosed and seemed sincere I would even have them doing something (then again that may be too counter productive). I certainly want a fresh start going forward, but at the moment we are in a desperate state and I for one welcome Crouch's donation and attempt to drum up support (although I would also like the situation clarified a bit more).

Derry, Can you clear up what this initiative is supposed to be doing? Is it tying in with the "we must raise £500k PDQ" just to see the season out? Is it a fund to keep us ticking over throughout the summer until a buyer or an alternative can be found? Is it setting up a fund to potentially "buy" the Club if no one else comes forward? How does it tie in with anyone elses initiatives (Crouch, other fans groups, other consortiums)? Not knocking this at all, I just think there is a lot of confusion at the moment (at least I had idea about the £500k until Crouch mentioned it last night) and you seem to be somewhere near the sharp end. CHEERS

-10 after invoking the "exceptional circumstances" rule, announced 4:45. Suspended until the end of the season. Applied if we finish out of the bottom three (which would mean relegation), or if we are relegated anyway to apply from the start of the next season in Div 3. Saints/administrator to suggest we will appeal, but in all intents and purposes it will be game over.

They're the only two reasons I can think of, but like you am open to other offers: 1) It's a PR tour to try and win over the hearts and minds of supporters and other interested parties before he forms a consortium to come back a third time, or 2) He has a very bruised ego and is going out of his way to try and save face and let it be known it wasn't his fault.

I haven't got a clue when it comes to statistics, just a little bit more knowledge than Flashman/Sundance or whoever he is this week (which isn't that difficulT) and I do just a little bit more research than Jonah who has all of a sudden gone quiet on the overdraft front;) Correct on all 4 fronts, although my success rates on (2) being a bookie and (4) an eye for figures haven't been up to scratch recently;) Anyway, I think we should all be moving on and trying to work out exactly who is doing what and what we should be doing (if anything), as I don't think anyone has really answered what the current situation is ref donating, not donating, chipping in to a consortium, etc etc etc. I wonder as to whether the Administrator is keeping quiet for fearing of alerting the League to how skint the Football Club is, as I'm still not sure what to make of the Crouch revelation that we need £500k just to fill a hole.

As SW11 points out, I think the vast majority of people on here (a) don't think Pearson is the greatest (but maybe a better bet than Poortvliet), (b) don't think Crouch is not to blame for anything (many, including himself have admitted he ccked up over some things) © don't think Lowe is to blame for everything Although things get heated on here, the vast majority of people are fairly balanced in their views, although as is the case in everyday life, those at either extreme seem to attract the most attention.

Will be interested to use the time to try and drum up interest to get supprot for helping get the Club out of the mire, or whether it will be another attempt at saving face and blaming others. I will not pre judge him and await his interview with interest.

Plus you have to let me know what games you don't want to include so that you ensure you get the answer you want;) We can even do a "one game average attendance" if you want (some people call this one the "Official Attendance":D)

I'm not exactly fond of throwing money into a bottomless pit, and I think there might be an argument for keeping your powder dry until a later date. But if no funds are forthcoming, will we fulfil our fixtures? What's the punishment if we don't? I presume it means the Club will definitely be in administration, points deducted and relegation and what then? But I can see both sides, and we do have to ensure we see this season out, which is why I would still like some clarificiation, as the administrator, on the link I put up, didn't sound as desperate! I agree that it has not been made clear and as I said when I first heard Crocuh mention the £500,000 required, I said "good or bad, I need to have a think about it." But maybe he's thinking in much the same way as you are, in that by putting the money in now means it is going to the wrong person and you get nothing for your buck. I think had the others come up with the money, then he would have maintained (if not increased) his shareholding and perhaps the Club would be viable and therefore his money may have had some worth going forward. So who's to say that he will be happy to put it into a consortium going forward, just not straight into the boliers at SMS???

I think he did his best to try and stay forward looking despite almost everyone else bar Stewart Dennis wanting to rake up the past. I think he must have said to every caller who were dwelling in the past, as well as Mark Dennis, that we have to look forward, and he almost achieved that all of the time thourghout the interview. I think he only slipped when he was really pressed by Dennis or callers pushed it too far, but for me his motivation was to get this Club out of, hopefully, a temporary abyss.

But I think they will make their decison one way or another fairly quickly, but I also agree that it could then drag on from there. However, have the League or the FA ever backtracked in this area once they have made a decision?

I don't think anyone has said it will be definitive one way or the other, but I can't see it dragging on as it will definitely impact on the relegation battle.

And as I said elsewhere how about similar (or at least a contribution) contributions from Lowe, Cowen, Wiseman, McMenemy, Hone, Hoos, Wilde etc etc etc.

This has certainly been doing the rounds, but as I said a week or so ago, no one has ever quantified or substantiated it. Not sayin it's true or not, just saying no one has put any factul evidence up here (or on any equivalent).

So under your rules where you can use an average of one game, then the average attendance for the first game was 23,000 and the average attendance for his last game was 32,000. HTH;)

Somewhat different motivations though. Whilst Lowe looks to be trying to justify himself and is happy to drag up the past, Crouch is looking forward and trying to drum up the cash needed to keep this Club ticking over. On almost every occasion on the radio tonight Crouch tried keep it forward looking and tried to avoid getting dragged into raking up the past. What would be a lovely touch would be for Wilde, Cowen, Wiseman & Lowe to also match Crouch's money to ensure we still have a Club to sell.