woodsaint1

Because we have shit defenders, next question

The Branfoot years were too early for me. Close call between Wigley and Jones. Taking the recency bias out of it, its Wigley for me

We're in a bit of a conundrum. If our chosen successor is available now (be it somebody like Bosz or Tedesco - probably both unrealistic but who knows) or could be tempted away from their current club then ideally you want them in the door as early as possible to start the rebuild. Problem is they'll be be tarnished with relegation and some fans will probably turn if performances between now and the end of the season show no signs of improvement on Jonesball. Holding off until the summer gives us a fresh start but could leave us missing out on our preferred target and less time to work with the squad

Are you really harping on about Perraud again? Fuck you do hate the French. The likes of Bednarek, AMN, Adams, Armstrong, Bazunu etc have been tragic, but you want to focus on our joint 2nd top scorer this season (from left back and in only about 15 starts) 🤯

As much as Jones has been a disastrous appointment, I absolutely despise most of our squad. Leaving the newbies and JWP aside, they are pathetically weak both mentally and physically. Literally no resilience or courage to be seen. Once Wolves went down to 10 you just knew that they would somehow wilt under the expectations and pressure. Bednarek (why was he ever brought back), AMN (waste of a loan who you can tell doesnt give a fuck), Salisu (shadow of the player he was and is clearly on the way in the summer), Adams, AA, Lyanco, Diallo, Mo and Bazunu can all piss off in the summer. Gutless

On the plus side, Lyanco would be deemed surplus to requirements just like he was at Torino shortly after Juric took charge

We arent going to start the season with some of the suggested lineups though. Its all guesswork at this stage. There will be sales no doubt, some of the players we expect to go will stay, but most importantly there will be new additions. Burnley kept a core of its PL team with the likes of J Rod, Barnes, Brownhill, Gudmundsson, Cork, Taylor etc, but have recruited well with some astute loans (Tella, Maatsen, Beyer) and permanent signings (Bastien, Zaroury, Benson). We'll almost certainly have a new manager in place too

Same here. Its sadly been on the cards for a few years. We've always been capable of a terrible run of form, but it feels like this run has been going for about a year now. Was gutted in 2005, but we deserve relegation for some of the terrible decision making from SR. The club badly needs a reset

We came third in the PL, not that it will provide much comfort when we get relegated. https://theathletic.com/4125651/2023/01/26/football-sustainability-index-premier-league?source=user-shared-article The coming days and weeks will bring the moment that sees English football forced to embrace change. The government’s white paper is expected imminently, crystallizing the key recommendations proposed by the exhaustive fan-led review of the national sport’s governance. Those in power have now concluded that football cannot carry on as it was. Too many clubs have been allowed to unravel. Some irretrievably so. Increased regulation, despite the Premier League’s lobbying, will finally be introduced in 2023. To what extent remains unclear after 12 months of slow progress, but an independent regulator will be at the heart of football’s reformation. Among the priorities, they will be tasked with ensuring the “financial sustainability of the professional game”. An almighty, nuanced challenge but help — or at least a proposal — is at hand. Fair Game, a group campaigning for improved governance in football, has published its inaugural Sustainability Index today, a project 18 months in the making that has called upon the expertise of academics, accountants and analysts. The Sustainability Index, Fair Game argues, is the solution to football’s problems. A grading system by which every club is judged on financial sustainability, governance, fan engagement and equality standards. The higher your score, the greater your reward. Fair Game, a movement endorsed by 33 clubs, does not expect its radical proposals to be adopted any time soon by an industry reluctant to look itself in the mirror, but the Sustainability Index is an attempt — perhaps an ideological one — for a club’s successes to be measured differently. “Football needs a culture change,” says Niall Couper, chief executive of Fair Game. “It needs to start celebrating and rewarding good behaviour and we believe the Sustainability Index does that.” So who are the first winners? Liverpool. For all the criticisms levelled at Fenway Sports Group, the American owners who are open to the prospect of selling up this year, there were none deemed to have scored higher on the first Sustainability Index. Nottingham Forest, meanwhile, were placed bottom of the pile after they invested heavily to secure their long-awaited Premier League return. Nottingham Forest’s transfer spending is bad news for their sustainability ranking (Photo: Clive Mason/Getty Images) If you were wondering how it is all calculated, here comes the nerdy bit… The Sustainability Index was divided into four sections deemed to be valued in the government’s fan-led review published in November 2021: financial sustainability, good governance, fan engagement and equality standards. Each of those was weighted to present an overall score for every Premier League and Championship club, with financial sustainability carrying the greatest value of the four. That particular sub-section was calculated by measuring current assets, debts, liabilities, loans repayable within a year and wages as a percentage of revenue. All information was taken from official accounts published via Companies House to create a snapshot of each club’s financial health. Align that with scores awarded for good governance, fan engagement and equality standards and you find each club’s ultimate score in the Sustainability Index. That is where Liverpool came out on top. Their financial sustainability might have been bettered by Arsenal and Manchester City, but Liverpool’s governance score, another complex rating that covers the club’s organisational structure, sponsorships and corporate social responsibilities, was considered the highest in the top division. The theory says that the better a club’s governance and fan engagement, the higher its standards for transparency and dialogue. Those perceived to be well-run clubs, such as Brighton & Hove Albion and Brentford, also both returned high scores. The dubious honour of finishing bottom went to Forest, whose most recent set of accounts, incorporating the 2020-21 season, showed that £202 was being spent on wages for every £100 of income. Financial liabilities were also twice their assets. Bournemouth were markedly better off but again cut adrift of most other Premier League clubs. “For the first time we have a measure of what clubs stand the best opportunity of still being here for another century,” says Couper. “But in equal measures, we’ve shown the challenges clubs face to become sustainable to ensure fans don’t lose out.” The Premier League riches, for most, bring a solid financial sustainability rating and that is again evident in the Championship. Clubs with the highest scores are typically still in receipt of parachute payments when filing their most recent set of accounts, including Sheffield United, Burnley, Watford and Huddersfield Town. Norwich City, who also scored highly for governance and fan engagement, led the way overall as a club that attempts to live prudently within its means. Luton Town, who reached the Championship play-offs against the odds last year, were the outlier, showing financial sustainability on a limited budget, but at the opposite end of the table were clubs that have gambled in pursuit of Premier League promotion and routinely come up short. Blackburn Rovers and Middlesbrough both returned a zero rating for financial sustainability, with Queens Park Rangers, Coventry City and Stoke City only marginally better. Fair Game has called them a collection of clubs that have chased the siren call of the Premier League. “Outside the Premier League, clubs’ finances are a mess,” added Couper. “The Championship has become a casino and at stake are the history and traditions of our great clubs. “The argument for an independent regulator of football is over. This is more evidence of the need for change. The new regulator needs to take control of football’s financial flow and end the insanity that exists in our national game. “In the Championship, the true winners are Luton Town, Millwall and Bristol City — clubs that are building for the future and are refusing to put themselves at risk.” The findings are not perfect. Stoke and Middlesbrough can both call upon local, affluent owners to subsidise losses, while Sheffield United’s current transfer embargo for the late payment of transfer fees hardly depicts Bramall Lane as a scene of stability. Promotion back to the Premier League, of course, would soon see those fortunes turn around. Everton and Southampton supporters, too, will take little comfort from their high rankings as they live in fear of a fall into the Championship. Everton, in particular, are hardly considered a club that others aspire to be, yet sit second only to Liverpool in the Premier League rankings. The theory is that any club scoring above 20 in the financial sustainability category is on a sound enough footing, but in the absence of real-time reporting, these measurements are reliant upon accounting figures up to the end of 2021. A new football regulator would likely have those numbers to hand, offering the promise of sharpened regulation within the game. That fan engagement and governance are placed so prominently alongside financial health is another measure of where football is headed. Two rival fan groups, the Manchester United Supporters Trust (MUST) and Liverpool’s Spirit of Shankly (SOS) joined forces yesterday to call on the government’s white paper to strengthen rules around club ownership. The two clubs, English football’s most successful, are both up for sale and supporters are eager to see an improved owners and directors’ test along with greater fan involvement. “Just as the government would not allow our most important cultural or heritage assets to fall into unfit or improper hands, it should not allow our football clubs to do so either,” said a joint statement from MUST and SOS. Football is waking up to its problems and how the government presents the long-awaited solution will shape the financial sustainability debate from this point onward.

Where did I say he should have been considered for the job? 🤷🏼‍♂️ I merely presented a hypothetical situation and what that likely would have meant

Thomas Frank proves that it doesnt matter. Never played professionally. However he wasnt thrown into the PL deep end. I personally reckon if Jones had been brought in during the summer when the pressure was alot less, the players/fans would have been a bit more receptive of his appointment. Being thrown into a relegation dogfight in your first top flight job was never going to end well.

Absolutely no guarantees in the Championship. Really impressed with Sunderland tonight, a young team who seem to be on the way back. We're like Sunderland 5/6 years ago. Repeatedly flirting with relegation before the inevitable happened. Lets hope we dont go the same way with the toxicity or appointments like Simon Grayson 😰

You just know who we'll appoint....one of City's assistants (Vicens or Maresca) and even their under 23 coach (Brian Barry Murphy). I wonder if Wilcox will get a say in any new manager. In fact, I wonder if Wilcox will even come if we get relegated.

Have to agree. What was so inspiring about that? If it was Gerrard/Lampard giving the same speech, it would be dismissed because of their recent managerial failures. But because its Kompany (who has yet to be tested as a manager in the PL and didnt have any success at Anderlecht I may add), its mesmerising. Some people are easily pleased.

In terms of players I think we can retain (although those I hope we move on are underlined) Bazunu, McCarthy, Lis Bree, Livramento, Perraud, Larios, DCC, Lyanco, Bednarek, Stephens, Simeu Diallo, Smallbone, Alcaraz, Djenepo, Sulemana, Orsic, S Armstrong, Edozie, Aribo Mara, Adams, Onuachu, A Armstrong, N'Lundulu Likely we'll cash in on a selection of Salisu, ABK, KWP, Elyounoussi, Tella, JWP and Lavia. Salisu (contract), Elyounoussi (contract) and Lavia (demand will be crazy) will definitely leave, but I think some we will be able to hold on to and some may surprise us and want to stay (JWP, ABK and Tella the most likely candidates). Walcott and Caballero will be out of contract, and AMN will be driven back to London sharpish. That being said, the retained list will depend on who the manager is and what SRs ambitions are. Theres absolutely no reason why the players above, with some good additions, cant return to the PL first go

A fans forum and suddenly its no longer Nathan Jones OUT 😂😂. Wait until Saturdays defeat

He literally took them backwards defensively from 20/21 to 21/22. Zero improvement

Fair dues to the board fronting up and taking the difficult questions head on. That being said they were hardly going to acknowledge that our league form under Jones is abysmal, nor were they going to lay into him further in relation to his post match comments. But at least they can be under no illusions about the strength of feeling within the majority of the fanbase. I've always been perplexed by how we arrived at Nathan Jones as our number one choice. Was it largely Rasmus's decision, dictated by his previous interest in Jones/metrics etc or what was the thinking within the club. We got some insight into that tonight. Rasmus said that they considered many parameters when looking at managerial candidates, but he highlighted how improving us defensively was one, and how Jones had been successful on this particular parameter previously. Well in Jones' last two full seasons as Luton manager (20/21 and 21/22 in the Championship), Luton ranked as follows defensively; 20/21 - Conceded 52 goals in 46 games, 1.13 goals per game. Joint 9th defensively with two other clubs 21/22 - Conceded 55 goals in 46 games, nearly 1.2 goals per game. 13th defensively (even worse than Derby who couldnt sign anybody and were relegated after their points deduction) In the 20 games he had this season before leaving, they were ranked joint 7th defensively (conceded 21, 1.05 goals per game). An improvement, but the fine margins after less than half the season should be noted (had they conceded 2 more they would have been joint 11th) These are defensive parameters which would hardly get you noticed or get those recruiting you very excited. Surely if your teams are renowned for their defensive success, they should be ranking in the top 5 at least. For somebody like Rasmus who likely pours over stats and metrics, this just doesnt add up. Rasmus did also mention defending set plays, so it would be interesting to see Lutons stats on that. To me this just solidifies my belief that Rasmus wanted Jones, purely because he wanted him before, and nothing was going sway him off that opinion.

Looks like we'll not be getting the Nathan Jones derby after all....regardless if he stays

Up until a week ago I was happy to stick with him. Then we had the Newcastle and Brentford games which were dismal, the post match meltdown where he claimed he was accountable and then everybody else was accountable, and then the reports of falling out with some players and other players not having faith in his abilities - that is more than enough to twist at this point. Once you've lost a certain section of the dressing room then you're done I'm afraid. Why would some of those players bust a gut for somebody they dont respect or trust. And with every negative result, the situation just exacerbates with negativity spreading and more players joining the mutiny. I dont see any manager keeping us up right now and not many will want to come given our situation. And if somebody was to be persuaded to come in, and we still go down, then fans will likely want them gone in the summer (which is another contract pay out for the club). Unfortunately Rasmus et al have backed themselves into a corner where they'll likely have to stick with Jones, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were sounding out longer term replacements who would be willing to lead us in the Championship

Are you Kaizer Soze mk 2? I think there just might be another thread for this

Can see Ankersen or Semmen's prepared lines already. They'll probably throw this out at the start and then ask that there's no further questions on the matter. "We're disappointed in Nathan's post match comments, however we remain committed to Nathan as first team manager and confident that he can improve the team during the second half of the season."

Thats a great shout actually, forgot all about that

We will be in the Championship next season, so theres absolutely zero chance that Potter would come here. Hes currently managing a team thats worth about a billion pounds and about to play in the Champions League knockouts. Yes its likely he'll be relieved of his duties by the summer, but he'll have plenty of more attractive options like West Ham or Leicester or Spurs depending on how the managerial merry go round moves. It certainly wont be managing us away to Plymouth on a Tuesday night as that would be taking his managerial career 10 steps back

We've looked like a team going down since about this time last year