Forester

I think Glasgow is getting worried that Puel may not be quite so crap as he thought......!

Big mistake to fire Puel. MP has week in, week out uninterrupted coaching time following the Wolves shambles. As a result of the terrific League Cup run, and the disappointing Europa stuff, Puel had to manage a dozen more games before January than MP will have. And MP has Lemina (hopefully!), Hoedt and a fit VVD. I heard him say yesterday that end of season target was between 50 and 60 points. The lower end of that to me, given the very different circumstances compared to Puel, would not represent progress. Like many have commented, I am concerned that our league position and points per game so far is overstated given that we have only played one team who finished above us last season. Consequently we are going to need a massive second half of the season to get anywhere near MP’s own target, which as above I think is a soft one. I would not pull the trigger yet, and still believe that the squad lacks an effective tall and genuinely match fit striker to give us a different way of playing. Reed needs to take the blame for that. However I think that December will be the key to MP’s future. I think an optimistic view gives us 19 points after these next four games, and then from the other five clubs we are yet to play I can’t see more than six. That would get us to 25 from playing everyone once. In my opinion that is the absolute minimum to keep MP for the January window and beyond.

Check my posts. No revisionism. Not sure how many away games you went to last season in league and league cup but it was way better than this

On train home, draw about right in a dull match. We played better at Stoke and lost, so a point not a disaster. However, while folk will have different views on sacking Puel (I wanted him to stay, and enjoyed many good away trips watching us last season) surely what no one can argue is that we have improved this season. One shot on target. However, unlike CP, MP has week in, week out uninterrupted coaching time. He will have managed a dozen fewer games than Puel had by January....

That is exactly what I think we should and will do

My memory doesn't go further back than him managing Brighton to the cup final, but is great to see how many regular posters we have that have been watching the Saints for over fifty years. Respect!

Very good summary, I agree

As they usually do, looks like club were spot on with these reaching general sale

I thought that, contrary to some, we played with more energy in attacking positions and the decision to drop Redmond was a good one. However all three of us en route to the ground were surprised that we didn't start with Boufal as he has been excellent when coming on as sub. I didn't expect him to score necessarily, but he makes things happen a la the one-two with Long last week that earned the penalty. It was a wonderful goal out of the Matt le Tiss category. Generally I thought we looked very solid defensively and in midfield. The one aspect of play that just does not work for us are the high crosses, generally of good quality, but we have no one capable of heading a goal unless our centre backs are upfront! Finally, I hope MP does not get too offended by Boufal's show of emotion. If I were him I would use it as a positive incentive, say "yes you are right, I am wrong, so start at Brighton and show me all over again".

Updated weather forecast is horrendous as I warned a couple of days ago. Have a look at wind strength tomorrow afternoon! Last time I think we played in anything approaching this was the famous Begovic/Boruc goal at Dtoke, but tomorrow looks like being worse....

Sadly, looking at the forecast, if the game goes ahead it looks like players will be struggling to stand up straight with winds forecast to exceed 50 mph around kick off time. Given dire warnings, which may improve, I fear we may have a "too dangerous to travel" postponement albeit live TV cameras will heap pressure on decision makers...

What Heisenberg and the other Puel haters never want to engage in, because it's too difficult, is that not only did Puel finish 8th but.... - he took us past all Premier League opposition, including away wins at Arsenal and Liverpool, to a cup final that real fans thoroughly enjoyed - as a result, with the addition of Europa Cup games, he had ELEVEN more games before February was out than MP will after the embarrassing exit to Wolves Reserves - we finished eight, yes down in points, but in a weird season that saw Everton, Liverpool and Chelsea with no European football to contend with with the extra travel and lack of game preparation time - all of the above was achieved with Pelle and Mane sold and inadequate or no replacements So given the addition of Lemina, Hoedt and injury free VVD and Austin along with a fully fit squad then SIGNIFICANT up,fit in points is expected to match all of the above from MP. He has week in, week out uninterrupted coaching time. And if the rumours are true that some key players wanted Puel out, and some of them wanted out themselves, then answer me this: why aren't they all playing out of their skins as they must be so pleased? I wouldnt fire MP yet as I want to give him every chance to succeed, but early signs aren't good and November/December fixtures loom. We appear to be going backwards in the only competition that we are in until January and so I wouldn't rule out pulling the trigger if we don't see genuine progress by the end of November. I have backed every manager since Pardew and have never been on here arguing to sack the boss. But if we get sucked in to a relegation battle in January then anything is possible. Our table position is artificially high having played only one team that finished above us last season

I will have my say on MP on the separate thread, so will restrict my comments to the match. Forster had a poor game, there is no dressing that up. I do however think he has had a decent start to the season, having had a bad season last year with McCarthy injured for most of it and therefore no competition. I wouldn't drop him after one bad game this season (he was excellent at Stoke) however I think he is one bad game this side of Xmas from being dropped now. It's always a big decision I think to do this and if the replacement has a howler on his first game you are in a real mess. VVD I thought looked very average, whereas I thought he was surprisingly good at Stoke after six months out. Again, wouldn't hit the panic button yet on him. Finally I though Redmond, apart from the good early ball to Gabby, again was poor and that is a tend so time to pull the trigger and give Boufal a sustained period in the team. It was his assist for the penalty. Let's hope Gabby now goes on a scoring run. I thought that MP was right to try something different in resting Davis to play the extra forward but it weakens the midfield and made us less secure. So a good learning point for the team. I am concerned though as we licked our lips at the fixture list in the summer and yet it hasn't happened. We are averaging one point per home game and have only played one team that finished above us, home or away. We can all do the maths. We are artificially high in the table given those fixtures. Have a look at this November and December games coming up......

The last time we played straight after an international break was the Watford horror show, let's hope that the extra 24 hours mean that MP prepares the team more professionally this time. On the great Boufal debate, I agree with those saying give him a run of four or five games on the spin. Given our excellent defenders and holding midfielders I don't see us shipping many goals and therefore with the scoring drought we need to rebalance the side. I am a big Davis fan, but right now I would rest him. My team: 4-2-3-1 would be FF, Cedric, VVD, Maya, Bertie, OR, Lamina, Boufal, Long, Tadic and Gabbi. I think that, when is possession, that lineup would feel more like a 4-2-4 but when out of possession we would still expect ten to be back working

I recall that you were one of those who led the charge to hound poor Puel out last season. The goals have hardly been flying in since despite no European football and, after the Wolves reserves fiasco, no League Cup run either....

Good start. Now deal with European games, League cup run and three May home games at fag end of season.....

You have only dealt in headlines/slogans in your reply. Could you address the different points and either agree or disagree with them?

A few facts, that I cannot imagine anyone can dispute..... Puel had two games per week, including Euro travels and a long successful league cup run against top flight opposition. MP, after the shambles of Wolves reserves, has week after week of uninterrupted coaching time Puel missed his top goal scorer for half the season, and his best player for the other half MP has a fully fit squad. And Lamina. And Hoedt Puel was given literally no one to replace Pelle with. Redmond was the replacement for Mane, or perhaps Gabbiadini in January was. Not only did we get to Wembley without conceding a goal against top flight opposition, including away trips to Arsenal and Liverpool, but we outplayed Man Utd on the day and were denied a perfectly legal goal. With VVD injured. If all of the above don't adequately explain why we ended up with fewer points than the previous season, throw in the fact that Liverpool, Chelsea and Everton all had no European football. If, as others have commented, the reason was team morale then I assume those same players are not excelling? It's time to accept that we have sacked a good coach due to a few poor home performances in a unique season that saw us have three home games in the dead end month of May. A MASSIVE uplift in points from MP is required to fairly account for what is an easier set of cards to play given the above. Let's hope he delivers that and everyone can say it was a good decision. Would you bet on that?

Spot on

A very astute summary

I agree. I enjoyed many good away trips watching Puel's side, 4 at Sunderland 4 at Watford, 3 at Wet Spam, wins at WBA, Boro, good draws at Man City and Scousehampton. The there was the great cup run with wins at Arsenal and Liverpool. We fired him because we didn't score enough goals at home including three home games in a dead end month of May. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree, what is undisputabke surely is that Puel was left short with failure to replace Pelle and Mane, and then had VVD and Austin injured for half the season. He also had two games a week with Europa and League Cup action. MP has week in, week out uninterrupted coaching time following the shambles against Wolves Reserves and he has a fully fit squad with the additions of Wesley and Lamina. I cannot figure out how some people can't see that he has a much easier deck of cards to play than poor Puel.

Well another long day, enjoyable game but hugely disappointing to take nothing against a team that are less talented albeit well organised. My thoughts: - Forster finished last season well and has started this one well too. It looks like he has his confidence and fitness back after being poor for two thirds of last season - VVD looked very good. Shame about the pen, but I expected him to look more rusty than he did - Our defensive set up in open play, and possession of the ball is very good and I wouldn't swap our back line and holding midfielders for any other. The problem as we know is the final third - I thought Boufal improved us when he came on - I have said many times that Pelle, after Lambert, gave us a completely different dimension to our play. I accept Mane was a special player who is hard to replace. But you can see in the closing stages of both the Man Utd and Stoke games that when we send a centre back upfront and hit some diagonal balls we see a different type of threat. We badly miss a tall target man. In the absence of one, teams are happy for us to play the ball around in front of them and can defend deeply. Until this is corrected we will dominate possession Look sold defensively but struggle to score. - Finally I continue to disagree that sacking Puel wasn't either justified or has improved us

Lots of positives, but concerns too. The main positive for me, following the horrors of Wolves and Watford, is that MP is starting to have an impact on style of play and I thought we were very good second half. The crowd appreciated the players' efforts after the game and Jose has been very complimentary about us. Even Redmond performed second half! The concern, as is obvious, is that for the second consecutive season we have not replaced Pelle and Mane with anything like similar players. Both Redmond and Gabby are sensible acquisitions but neither are the target man that was Pelle or the raw pace that was Mane. The latter I accept is harder to replace, but we lack someone to hold the ball up and be an outlet ball who can create chances by knock on headers a la Lambert and Pelle. As such I can't really see us scoring more than 40 or so goals this season which was the fundamental reason that Puel was sacked, so it would seem. I am very happy with the other departments but we really need a target man (doesn't need to be prolific, but can create chances too) and a goalscoring attacking midfielder. Until this happens we will continue to struggle for goals.

I know it's picking at old scabs, but this is why I just cannot understand why many folk think Puel was a failure. Cup final reached by consecutive clean sheets against PL opponents, 8th and all WITHOUT Pelle and Mane. Then throw in losing VVD and Austine each for half a season and before Lamina and Hoedt joined....

I know it's picking at old scabs, but this is why I just cannot understand why many folk think Puel was a failure. Cup final reached by consecutive clean sheets against PL opponents, 8th and all WITHOUT Pelle and Mane. Then throw in losing VVD and Austine each for half a season and before Lamina and Hoedt joined....