Forester

No, but I am under the impression that many seem not to have factored in that the investigation could take weeks or months. What I want to avoid is a situation where we have the players back, and then Tonda is banned for months and needs to be fired. That would be chaotic on eve of season starting. Bigger picture for me is that if we move on quickly we are one of only four clubs with parachute payments and four points deduction is negligible over 46 games. So a quick reset is best, as sad as it is to lose Tonda.

For the same reason that the club punishment was different to Leeds, namely that there wasn’t a rule then, there is now. None of this is what I want to happen, it’s just reality

Gonna say this slowly as it doesn’t seem to be sinking in with the “don’t sack Tonda” brigade……. WHAT………..IF……..HE…….IS……BANNED……FOR……MONTHS…….? Still think this will be taken out of our hands. It won’t just be a touch line ban.

This is a powerful argument but I draw the opposite conclusion, precisely because of the point you make in penultimate paragraph. I fear he will have lost the magic in the eyes of the players (to say the least), and cannot imagine anything other than a long ban coming up from FA. And so it becomes a bit of a non-choice.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

As the dust settles, we need quickly to move into next season thinking. Given I am expecting lengthy ban from FA, Eckert isn’t a credible choice. We will need to start well and quickly erase the four point deduction. So a manager capable of quickly turning things around is a must. Parker, Frank, Dyche or Cooper all fit the bill in my view. We do have assets that we can sell without decimating the squad in my opinion. The following would probably raise £75 million Ramsdale, Bazanu, Sugawara, THB, Charles and Brereton-Diaz. That should be enough if we work well on incomings (which to be fair we have generally since Spors has been involved). I believe Stewart has a one year extension we can trigger, both Bree and Edozie are out of contract and would be worth two year deals without paying a transfer fee. I don’t know if the options on Perez and Larin were conditional on being promoted? So we could enter next season with starting lineup something like: Peretz, Bree, Wood, Stephens, Manning, Downes, Jander, Azaz, Scienza, Matsuki, Stewart. Subs new goalkeeper, Welington, Quarshie, Bragg, Edozie, Fellows, Robinson, Larin, Archer I suspect a few more will go, but equally we will bring in some new blood. We will need to sign another centre back and central midfielder for a start. But that should be more than good enough for top eight, and hopefully better than that, but still bringing in good money.

Parker has managed three seasons in championship with three different clubs, and secured promotion on every single occasion.

Thanks for posting this, what is source?

It will be “I didn’t know it was wrong”

Like everyone else, appalled at the motive and incompetence to orchestrate spying against the rules. However I do feel the level of punishment is too harsh, and feel strongly that we are entitled to a fair appeal. From my experience of disciplinary and legal cases, this requires: - Full disclosure by EFL panel of grounds for their decision. This is typically a letter running to several pages (often more than ten) which should not only set out the evidence but also the considerations on punishment, options excluded, mitigation (including the fact that we admitted things and co-operated). - I read in recent days that we will only get a brief summary today, and full letter to follow later in the summer. But that isn’t good enough. If we are to have fair appeal we need to know everything in that letter. - We need time for our legal advisers to prepare the grounds for appeal. How is this credible in 24 hours? - And so the only fair approach is for appeal to be delayed, which means postponing final, and this to flow from the panel’s letter. This may also sound legalistic and focussed on process, but even if we just get the points reduction reduced it is important to see this through. It’s not about denying guilt, but just as burglary and murder don’t carry the same sentence this situation demands proportionate response.

While not bullet proof, and if things go well tonight, surely the most fun defence we could run is: ”well, when we spied on them we couldn’t beat them. Then, when we didn’t, we battered them 4-0 in second leg. So it proves it hasn’t helped us😀

Someone in my family with four just bought one five mins ago. Looks like a lower block largely still available so guess 100 or so

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I’ve been going to away games for over 30 years. I remember being 2-0 down at Preston and winning 3-2 but nothing matches tonight. Such a shame so few fans travelled (understandably) but it was pure mayhem in away end. Thank you Saints!

Don’t know why Stoke has a reputation as a poor away trip, I always enjoy going there and we have a good record. Excellent performances from Welington, THB, Stephens and Downes, and a couple of vital saves from Peretz (not that we realised from our view that the shot that hit the post was a save at the time). Stewart makes such a difference in terms of basics of link up play and occupies centre backs. Gives us an outlet when we are under pressure. If we are to make a late run to play offs he is vital in my view, whether or not he is scoring as he makes us a better team. History suggests we will need to win 10 or 11 of our remaining 16 games to make the play offs. Not impossible, but a long shot.

“Pony”? The last three seasons he has played a full year in the championship (this season, two years ago when promoted and then his last year at Blackburn) he has been in the top two or three goal scorers in the entire division. Assuming each club has four strikers, that means he is in the top two per cent. He also scored the only goal in the play off final when it counted. In what other work of life would you get anything other than accolades for being in the top two per cent?

I agree that Tonda is not good enough. But just compare the side Martin had to manage. Bednarek, KWP, Stuart Armstrong, a fit and motivated Aribo and Adams. We totally lack that experience and nous.

I’m just rebouncing this….

I don’t claim he’s one of the best players to grace Saints. But let’s examine the last three matches: Birmingham, Stephens starts, we concede one goal Millwall, Stephens starts, we keep a clean sheet Boro, Stephens is rested/dropped, we concede four How is this consistent with your assertion “take him out of the side and you’ll see an improvement”?

Given the increasingly likely scenario that we will be in championship next season, but with reduced parachute payments, and also that the Downs loan is with an option, not obligation, to buy, I would be surprised if we don’t get a loan deal striker in. Club will want to be confident they are getting money back on Downs before paying a big sum I suspect, unless there are other sales being lined up that can generate good sums (which neither Aribo or Edozie I believe would).

McCarthy (unless loan signing is done) Jelert, Wood, THB, Welington Romeu, Bragg Fellows, Azaz, Scienza Stewart Romeu and Stewart need game time to get up to speed. If it works on the day both are in contention for Hull, if not Jander and Armstrong come back in

Nobody, including anyone being paid to play or manage, should be dismissing relegation as a possibility. That isn’t to say it is the most likely outcome, but a summary of reasons why this needs to be seen as a credible risk. Warning, read through the gaps in your fingers: - As has been pointed out, we have no wins in the last six, including defeats against two of the bottom three. And the lack of character on display especially at Oxford and Middlesbrough is a huge concern. So poor form and getting worse. - Having played 26 games, we have just eight wins. Additionally, four of those came in a five game spell when we had an “interim manager”, when elevated levels of energy are often a feature (numerous examples to cite, a recent one being O’Neill at Celtic). And so under a permanent manager, it is four wins in 21. We have 20 remaining fixture. - history suggests that 50 points is needed to avoid relegation. However this year Sheff Wednesday (even ignoring the deduction) look set to accumulate an unusually low total. And equally, it looks like the top six will accumulate less points than recent seasons. And so, therefore, it’s a mathematical likelihood that a higher total than 50 may be needed as points are more evenly distributed. - Ignoring Sheff Wed who are down, every one of the eight clubs trying to catch us are yet to play us a second time. You can spin that as “easier fixture list”, but given we aren’t currently on the drop zone the onus is on others to take points off us. The opportunity for that exists. Two of the sides (Sheff Utd and Norwich) are greatly improved since changing managers and coukd be argued to be in a false position based on table since October. - Most fans would say, and data backs this up, that Saints’ most effective players this season in terms of actual results gained are Armstrong, Azaz and Scienza. That isn’t to say they are in form now, but that when points have been picked up it’s often been down to them. Not one of them has been injured for more than a week. What if that changes? If one or two of them pick up hamstring injuries at some point they will probably miss eight of the 20 games. - the club have said that we should expect a quiet window. And so there is no communicated plan to strengthen the outfield squad. Others will spend and gamble. So we may need to win five and draw four or five of the remaining 20 games just to finish fourth bottom. None of this is scaremongering, it’s just being dispassionate and looking at the situation.

Just checking, but has anyone told you that 80% is greater than 20%?

Shocking and really worrying capitulation. Looked like a proper throw the towel in second half, nobody tracking runners, huge gaps behind wing backs, no desire to close players down. Those of us that have watched Saints for many years will remember when Burley left midway the season having been in charge two years and we would never have been looking down the table. Dodd and Gorman had a horrific spell in interim charge and it needed Pearson to come in and keep us up on last day. Given we are no wins in six and now looking like we lack desire, you look at the Pompey game coming up, and Norwich are greatly improved under Clements. We need to average a point per game from here on to stay up and right now that looks a big ask. Cannot believe I am typing this but have a look at the table and remind yourself that we have to play all the teams chasing us a second time.

McCarthy Jelert, THB, Wood, Welington Bragg, Jander Fellows, Robinson, Scienza Armstrong