Frank's cousin

This is all so confusing... what I would like to know is: 1. Will the new company (current club) pay creditors under the terms of the CVA? 2. Are they just paying the larger creditors with the small ones being the responibilty of Portpin? 3. What happens to Pompey under FA regulations on Admin/CVA IF they do NOT keep to the CVA? 4. What happens to Pompey under FA regulations if Portpin do not pay the small creditors as even if it is no longer their responsibilty to pay it, surely if making these payments (via Portpin) was part of the conditions to come out of Admin, then failure by Portpin to pay is a breech of the agreement? 5. What penalties would then be imposed on the new company/club? 6. Has Pompey discovered a loophole in FA regulations as the current company is not the one that went into Admin? 7. Will they in effect get away with this, and will we see the FA close a loophole after this horse manure has already bolted? 8. What do Corps et al think of this? Do pmpey fans care or are they laughing at the FA? I would be just as angry with thsi kind of unswered and ambiguous situation regardless of what club had behaved like this (this is not just a case of being ****edd off because its pompey, but if a club can come out of admin, transfer the 'football club' and its golden share to a NEW company, and as such avoid further penalties if the OLD company default on the agreement with creditors... how can this be Fair or legal? I presume the NEW company are responible for the larger creditors CVAs as its the parachute revenue that is due to pay this.... what is happening with this, anyone know? Corps, its this quagmire, uncertainty and perception that things are not all above board and that there is a potential for 'avoiding' what was agreed that keeps this thread going - Surely you can see that this is about more than just Portsmouth, but about the credibiltyof the FA/FL in general and what is right and proper in ensuring fair competition?

Thie is a wierd converstaion, because ultimately we should not be having it... we should as football fans be 100% behind our national team... if the clubs were to then we might stand a chance.... but I can see where ALPs is coming from... Seems to me that the England 'brand' and 'shoe in' generation of the last 10 years have become so difficult to like. They play for clubs that constantly complain about releasing players despite the advantge and value it adds to their profile/financial value, image rights sales etc and the players tehmeselves are the types that no one really likes unless they play for your club... some of who I simply cant stand. The loss against Germany in the last WC summed it up. Sure the media play their pimp like role, but these players for whatever reason were shown as being both technically naive and lacking in pride and passion... they had simply gone on too long. Its just so difficult at times to see past those figures that you cant stand - and probably wont get any better in thsoe terms when/if Redflapps takes over..... But its teh arrogance of thsoe clubs they play for and tehir distain for the set up that gets me... When the German' got mullered in the 2000 Euros in Portugal including a beating by England, they knew they had to change the way the set up worked - The German FA set up a program called team 2006 and worked WITH clubs on a national scale to align academy coaching in both standards and style of play - away from the 'typically efficient' tag towards a generally more attacking style (probably why they still have defensive frailties) - but the point was this was with the full backing of the clubs - roll forward 10 years and look at the difference.. not just the 1st team, but the u21 final against against England in 2009, at the same time being both U17 and U19 WC.... Thios would NOT have been possible without teh clubs.... as to egos, sure, only got to look at Ballack... but he was never invited back in after his injury - and by getting in many young players into the first team set up many of were NOT well known before the last WC, (who really knew much about Ozil, Khadira or Muller) they get them before huge ego takes over....oh and as with most European nations, the technical side is so much better. What I find sad about teh England set up is that it seems run by fear of failure - no one with the balls at the FA to stand up to the clubs, no one with teh vision to try and get teh clubs to align, and within teh coaching and management set up, no one willing to say, 'alright we need to change, we'll uyse Euro 2012 as a stepping stone to the WC, build this team now, get rid now of anyone who will be too old by 2014, no point in keeping them in and just put in the youngsters most likely... which hopefully it seems he might do... the youngsters (if heads not already turned) should still have that hunger and willingness to learn. What was most annoying though about the Wales games was that after a good youthful display against Bulgaria... not world beating, but a good game played with spirit in teh 1st half... as soon as Lampard is back in, we reverted to type, lack of imagination and dull dull dull.... I dont want England to lose, but struggle to support them... am hoping this new generation will change that, but when I see the bling, the diamond earstuds, Rooney's hair and the Terry... its a struggle to be passionate about or have pride in.... and then its capped off by the 'England fans' which is a whole other debate!

This assumes though that there is answer... As human beings we have EVOLVED a reasonable brain through natural selection to aid in our survival and thus pass on our genetic 'virus' - the body/brain is a by product, not by design, but by accident. An additional consequence is that we have evolved a brain that questions and reasons - so at points in history where there were no answers to the the questions we had, we explored the concepts of higher beings being responsible for our existence - it provide comfort from the fear of the unknown. As these questions have been answered by science (through the testing of hypotheses to develop theories _ please note its important to understand the real meaning of 'theory' before its dismissed - those advocating certain religous or 'belief system'- like to dismiss scientific explanations such as evolution because its only a 'theory' dont understand what is meant by it... but thats another argument) we stopped worshipping sun gods an volcanoes, because storms/lightinmg no longer held any fear... Belief systems had their place in education in the past, despite their often idiotic foundations and contradictory teachings... and would have dissappeared but for another side effect of brain... the realisation that by some greedy smart feckers that they could control popultaions through it, and its also a good way of accumulating wealth/control (see vatican). As to Ghosts an ghooulies and all such ******, the Ouiji (spelling) board started as a 'Palour game' The whole 'spiritualism' bolox started as a trick played by two young girls in the 19th century, making knocking signs on a table - and it excalated in the US (surprize surprize) to become a billion dollar global industry - its always been about the money! If you want to believe there is something there, go ahead, up to you, but remember its always about the money. Re FAITH etc... well I m not going to dismiss the fact that there are those who find some sort of benefit in belief... but my question to those is, what is 'Missing' form your life that you need this 'crutch'? Why do some find it necessary to find a 'reason' for our existance at all? Is not the very fact that you exist, have evolved from nothing, exist by accident and live in a world that despite its hideous flaws (mostly of our own doing) its actually a pretty amazing place?

THIS: If as a society we feel we are mature enough and civilised enough to embrace concepts such as freedom of speech, it has to be the same for everyone. As much as I despise such extremists as the EDL or MAC, if we let one lot spout their ignorant, hateful bile, we have to let the others. Personally, despite being what some on here might call a 'liberal', I would ban them both. With freedom comes responsibility - a civilised culture is one that is mature enough to be tolerent and accepting of ALL, so those that chose to undermine this with their hateful bile obviously dont have either the maturity, intelligence or education to understand the responsibilty that comes with freedom and should not be allowed to spread this hate filled agenda.

You see This is something that thjose in the game usually like to roll out everytime someone criticises their obscene income. Why should sports folk be any different from you and me? Many folk are forced or chose a career change at some point in their life and it often requires retraining and a salary drop... its part of life. Its not as if footballers turn 35 and CANT work anymore... afterall in days gone by most turned to new careers as their income from football had either been a) not enough to set them up for life, b) drunk or gambled away c) badly invested.... so justifying high salaries because they have 'short careers' is simply daft - afterall, most players in L1 and L2/conference, probably make no more that 40-100K a year and so will have to have an alternative career after they finish playing. ... the salaries have been in effect driven by supply and demand and the recognition by Agents and players alike that they can milk it given the revenues from TV far exceding the previous revenues that the biggest clubs had from their gate. Although its not uncommon in most sports for the best to earn huge salaries, it has had such a major impact on the one thing that makes sport so facinating - competition, these salaries have erroded it and created top leagues in which only 2-4 teams will ever have a chance of winning... and created an environment in which many clubs in the top tiers are simply happy to be mediocre and avoid relegation - Fear of defeat dictating tactics, spending and risk avoidance. Will the salary bubble burst? Only if TV punters switch off. Its possible that in the future the 'mercenary' approach will only get worse... it would not be surprizing if in 10-15 years time, there is some kind of football equivilant of the IPL, with global teams bidding for players for short term contracts... depends on what the TV punters especially in the new markets such as Asia demand.

OK but you have not made it easy on yourself. I agree that its not always possible to hold a rational debate on these issues, but you have to acknowledge that you have not always helped yourself in that regard?

For all of Copes' Rhetoric, there a a couple of interesting issues here... football by its nature, whether fans or media have very short memories... and have their darlings who can simply do no wrong. Remember the outrage over Leeds? The fishtank? made more headlines and promted more discussion amongst fans than the 60 mil of debt they wrote off to fund a Champions league season... yet for amny of their fans they still say its worth it... and they dont care that they were universally hated by everyone else... Pompey had a real asset during the initial stages of their over spend in Redflapps - the self proclaimed 'briiliant' wheeler dealer seen and forgiven by teh media as a loveable rogue with a vast football brain, even touted as the 'next' England manager - yet look at his record and it comes as no surprize that he has struggled to do very much without cash to spend... and tends to leave just before it all goes tits up, thus avoiding any stain on his reputation...Now he is quoted as saying he never knew anything about the finance at Portsmouth during his spending period, levaing that to the board... yet this sits at odds with his media comments during transfer windows when its quite clear he knows what is being spent, what 'value' is being placed on certian players and the bids they have 'refused'... who knows, but only an idiot would carry on spending if it was not fully clear that there was sufficient cash to pay for it... Corp likes to say that we only go on about Portsmouth becuse they are our local rivals and its hurts more that they won a trophy on the back of this debt... I am happy to admit there is an element of truth in that, but its not the exclusive reason. I have since 2001/2 during online 606 debate and right throigh our own problems been trying to get a point across that football finance is something rotten. That clubs at all levels should be forced to live within their means, and this meant that many thought I was osme sort of 'Lowe Luvvie' because I agreed with his approach to the controlling the purse strings - for me the insignificant amounts of salaries and dividends relative to hat it cost to fund players and wages were worth it if it meant our club played by the financial rules governed, ironically not by the FA or PremL, but by the nature of being a PLC. For its faults (and there are many), the PLC status did mean we had open access to the annual reports and financial details, and as fans we could see exactly what was going on. So despite some of our fans making false claims of 'where's the money gone?' - the answer was clear - it paid the bills and tax and if we had a small profit, a small dividend. The status, also allowed us to approach approved and regulated financial institutions to take out a mortgage on a new stadium an investment that (despite criticism from some) meant we were far better placed to attract a decent new owner when we were in admin... SMS for all the jokes about 'meccano' would cost approx 100mil to buld now... so it was a timely investment. ... I have an issue with ANY club that blows money it cant not really afford in an attempt to get a competitive advantage. We have done done it, under Crouch and Wilde albeit cash we had in the bank at the time, that in my opinion should have been saved for a rainy day... sure we as fans were not united on this, many felt it was right because that was what was needed to try and get us back in them. I disagree and stand by that, even if it meant it reinforced the 'Lowe Luvvie' tag, as misguided and as wrong as that was.... you see Corp... these very issues in which you accuse us of double standards and hypocrisy were debated, often fiercely, and often venomous, on here by fans from both sides. It was often not pleasant, but many felt itr was necessary and with the benefit of hindsight, there are npow many more who would perhaps see that those opposing the fan friendly spending approach actually had a point. As with Leeds, Pompey and now Leicester and to some extent a Skint West Ham, I find the absence of a strong debate both amongst fans and in the media about the merits of what they are doing, astonishing. The media ignore it, afterall WHU had all those WC winners, Leicester have Sven who is a good for a story, Pompey ahd Harry who is a darling... and even Leeds...well with Leeds it seemed that perhaps there were many old school types who still had a soft spot for them and tehy way they played the 'beautiful game' of old - our game, tough hard etc, not this poncy Euro passing nonsensce... But why are there not now thousands of Pompey fans (who even if forgiven for not thinking about it at the time), who genuinely want answers, acknowledge that it was WRONG and want to get back to a fair and honest approach to building for success? Where are they all? - To me that says more about how rotten football finance has become than anaything else. Fans seem disengaged from how their clubs are run, as long as the results are right - Corp is right, its not just Pompey fasn its the fans at Leicester, etc now... If as the 'uber fans like to say' 'fans are the club' then surely tehy should be interseted in this stuff and not just results? Whatever, you say Corp, you have to acknowledge that your 'punishment' is hardly one that is equitable with the 'crimes' - even if that is what the rules say, morally and ethically you 'got away with it' as did Leeds, Leicester etc... We did as well... but only because we attracted a new ethical investor... someone who ensured the first thing that wwas done was creditor agreements were paid... but someone who saw VALUE in Saints in no small part because historically we hade been run in such a way that our infrastructure was in place and had not skunked someone elses money on transfers and wages in attempts to stay in a division or win something... indeed in order to try and pay the bills on relegation, we stripped out the team, played kids and TRIED to put it right... and that is where we can say we have the moral high ground. Now I dont think you are as daft as some of these fellow posters make out, but if you dont or cant acknowledge that, then it suggests you really are... I dont believe so, so come on prove me right?

This was aimed at those openly debating what should happen to the 'bouncers' - discussing punishments etc when at the time it was completly unclear what had happened, who was involved, so was total speculation and bull. I am no lawyer, but public debate of guilt and punishment in the media is the kind of thing that gets cases thrown out as impossible to provide a 'fair' Jury trial.... so the comment stands. In addition, I suspect that you know as well that whilst a proper discussion on the merits of 'athletes socializing' is one thing... starting it in this thread is suggestive of Dan having done something wrong or in part being responsible for what happened to him, at a time when NO facts were Known about anything... so yes on that front I stand by the comment as well. Have that discussion on another thread surely?

Thoughts with Dan and his family As for the rest of speculating on bouncers, actions, drink, socialising, I would respectfully suggest that with no FACTS in any of this you STFU.

Well... maybe they cant afford it and refuse to due a Leicester/Pompey and risk everything in a mountain of debt? Although I can undersatnd its frustrtaing for any manager... tehir job is to get the best from what they have and build a solid team spirit that is always worth a few points... I always get a bit ****ed off with managers (and fans) to be honest that constantly bleet of teh lack of big spending - that is life for many clubs that dont want to cheat. Its actually, in some ways refreshing to see some clubs live by financial restrictions, rather than see the Leicester Pompey approach which never leads to long term stability or success...

More likely '' Alright love, hop on and away we go'' ''oh is that it?'' '' yeah but saints have broken their transfer record'' '' not bloody football again...do I look like I care.. who do you expect to please with that?' ''myself!'' ....

What is it with the obsession of SIZE... is it some sort of **** swinging constest? Who cares of how much we pay... what is more imporatnt is the quality and Personnally the LESS we pay the better.... I just remember when we brought in a certain M Svensson for under 2 mil - who was arguably one of teh top 6 CBs in the prem in 2002/3 - cheaper than Delap and far more integral to the first team as we saw when he got crocked... Seems size of transfer is something that appears to be some sort of compensation for a small tadger for some of you...

...I guess though that there are more than one candidate for that honour now... and I suspect that viewing our history with the benefit of the rectospectoscope might challenge some folks ideas of what was destructive and what was perhaps more prescient... but I doubt that those with the deeply ingrained over emotive opinion will ever acknowledge that... LOL I wont hold my breath anyway.

Fair enough to some degree... I dont think its a case of wanting to ignore the negatives no matter how much truth there is, nor even of only wanting to hear good news in the North Korean way LOL. I think its a reaction. Almost to the point of 'there is only so much bad news I can take' and after so many years of it, most folk just wanted to be happy in the knowledge that we were slowly climbing out of the abyss. Its the same rationale as to why MLT and maybe some of the others got so much abuse when being publically critical in the media - they may well have very valid points, and it may well be that in the long run more folk may consider they had a point - but its questioning why now? why when we are finally showing signs of improvement, stabilty and progress on the pitch, were the very folk who have said how much they only want what is best for the club, using outlets to criticise from a personal experience...it gave the perception of selfishness to some extent. I think the same applies to how Duncans post were received - even if totally trueful and honest in their delivery, the suspicion was 'what is his agenda' rightly or wrongly, our recent history has developed that paranoia. Duncan is a great bloke, intelligent, passionate and having spoken and debated with him over a pint or two, happy to listen and discuss POVs even if in direct conflict with his own opinion - which is why at the time if I felt maybe a little ****ed off over the stories, its perhaps easy to see by others who dont know him, or think they do went too far in the abuse - there was no need or excuse for that. I still to this day find it difficult to reconcile the 'need' to always know very detail, warts and all of the ins and outs - and the frustration in this is caused by the simple fact that more often than not the negative comments are based on the the outcome and not on an understanding of the rationale for decsions made.... and that nagging feeling that there are still many fans for whom NC will never be what they consider to be the only way to run a club... I just wish those that have these concerns would perhaps be more open in expressing WHY or whether their beliefs and ideology is a factor in their 'expression of concern'. When Pards left, I was worried, not by Adkins arrival, seemed on paper like a good canditate, but because Pards had done a bloody good job so far in terms of where we had come from and were we about to re-enter the manager merry go round - the issue with Duncan pointing this out was that it began polarising fans again without access to the iunformation necessary to make an informed judgement and that is fundementally the problem... too often fans end up at opposite ends of the spectrum based on pre-existing perceptions and not on teh merits or otherwise of the decision made or in full pocession of the facts.

TBF I dont think folk were slaughtering others for hinting at a falling out - but given teh timing, what we had been through etc... Folk, including myself were questioning the motivation behind such posts - guess we did not want to believe that all was not rosey... maybe paranoia, suspicion etc had become second nature... 'bedwetters' had feck all to do with it, but when there are negative posts starting again after a period in which we had hoped to have dug ourselves out of the garbge pile, it was not comfortable reading. I have a great deal of respect for Duncan and his views.. but I still struggle to understand the need to forward all the gossip, even if based on reasonable sources. What is the motivation or is there an agenda? There are still many on here for example that struggle with NC.. and I am not talking about his few errors of judgement that have ****ed folk off... those go with the territory as you never please all the people all the time, no I am talking aout something more ingrained - whether its a suspicion of any business like approach, the concern of the 5 -year plan being a means to and end and sell off, or something else. Whatever it is, that is what sometimes contributes to the feeling that often its just shidt strirring based on gossip. We dont know what the future holds, but if one thing the last few years has taught us is a very definite need to heed the old addage 'be careful what you wish for'... the clamour for rapid change and feverish support of so called 'fans' and their consortia or whatever has shown to be **** in the wind on more than one occaision. Pards and NC did not get on... end of story. Change is made and whether it works better or worse is what we have to live with... worrying about and constantly fearing the worst, spreading rumours for no aparent reason seems a pointless exercise.

This... Top post... The reason we are probably 'difficult'to deal with is that we conduct these things professionally, doing our due diligence and are not going to be held to ransome by some ****wit agent, player or manager. The fact that QPR let Warnock comment in public on transfer dealings suggest old school and ****wits of the highest order... I suspect we will lose out on a few because we are not 'oiling the wheels' and ensuring agents and signing on 'fees' are provided in brown envelopes.... QPR can go **** themselves as far as I am concerned and Warnock is just being a prat or the highest order

Quote by many 'the transfer situation is a mess' FFS get a grip and stop being so naive - Many transfers that are rumoured never happen, sometimes players fail medicals, sometimes tehy want too much and other times they just dont fit.... as to Fox and De Ridder, they have just joined and although its amazing to see how quickly Cork has adapted to his new playing partners, other will take some time - ITS NORMAL FFS. I cant believe some of you are so desperate for us to sign more players - as if our very survival depended on it. Sure we may want to develop the squad further to ensure we remain competitive throughout teh season and push for promotion... but when did the plan suddenly change from a 5 year one tio a 3 year one? Is it based on teh abck of 4 wins? Because if it is, then its not me being naive. I am sure NA and NC have looked at our start and recognised that with the RIGHT additions we could go for it this year - BUT the right additions may not be availbale right now at a price that is sensible. PLayers like GORKSS or Fontaine, may well have been good squad players to add strength in depth, but has anyone thought that they fell through for the RIGHT reasons and that the management know that it was not worth concluding? I suspect that if theright players at teh right deal are not available so be it, NC and NA will recognise that the push may need to be next year and see how we get on with what we have - no point in buying for the sake of it....

I seem to remember most fans reaction when we signed a certain Micheal Svensson...who? All transfers have an element of risk, some players who seem great pon paper never deliver, others who have maybe had a toubled season at their previous clubs shine in a new environment - so us fans should have more of an open mind TBH. I for one, like the unknown, the less predictable nature of thes ethings... its what makes sport/football interseting to see how playesr develop, evolve and join the side... I also find it quite funny how just because of a 4 wins at the we are seeing early signs of moaning because we are 'not getting players we need if we are serious about promotion'.... talk about sudden changes in ecxpectation... though we would have been happy with mid table at the start of the season... LOL

NOt a dig at LF as I have no knowledge of why the deal has not worked out - could be any number of reasons.... but I suspect there will be more than one potential tranfer where players believe that they can dictate personal terms.... I doubt they get far with the Don LOL. I suspect we have players on contracts that are more heavily weighted to wards performance based rewards - proove yorself first before trying to upset the wage structure. We have seen many new contracts this summer and it woudl not surprise me if there are some pleasing bonus terms and loyalty clauses in there, rather than stupid basic weekly wages... I know in the past many have complained about a wage structure that is too rigid or too tight, but i for one see a squad that is performing well, is enjoying being part of something and is happy to sign new deals... good times. ;-) NA will have other targets.

This really for me highlights part of the frustration and thus the continued 'cheat' chants that many fans have with those pompey fans that still seem unable to accept their club bought success on credit that they never intended to repay... because there was never any clarity as to where thsoe funds used were really coming from. For all Lowe's mistakes, they were just mistakes, but as soon as it was realised that without major cost cutting we woudl go under, He at least tried to do everything possible in insisting we played the kids etc... and yet despite never missing any stadium payments, never missing any HMRC payments or wages to staff and players, and with a slow but reasonable reduction in the overdraft, we went down, paid our punishment, but still nearly went under without a stroke of luck from Markus arriving. Pompey just kept spending. But it does raise another interseting point: Our current accounts. NOt being an accountant, I am a little confused as to the way the accounts shows liabilities to our owner - becasue as I understand from turnover and operating cost figures we are breaking even or thereabouts, but have funds available for major infrastructure projects such as staplewood etc. Someone might be able to explain this better, but as I see it there were loans to teh club from ML for such projects, which is fair enough, but what we dont know is whether this is something that is expected to be repayed or whether its simply there as its better for tax reasons at this time. Having said that, at least we know where the money has come from, who it is owed to and that it was provided to the club by the owner, an owner who has NEVER used credit or debt to fund expansion and growth in any of his businesses... and whose business dealing are reknowned for their integrity and ethical approaches. I was always heavily criticised as a 'Lowe luvvie' durinmg those various times.... and despite pointing out that I was never supporting an individual, but believed we were doing some things right - eg living within our means and investinng when we could in infrastructure and academy etc... and also at the time I was happy to accept teh consequences of relegation from playing the kids, if it meant we would avoid administration or worse - yes this would look like a support of Lowe, but I said at the time and I stand by it now... IMHO these were the things he did right. Had we done a pompey, stayed at a decaying Dell, spent 40 mil a year plus on players and wages and maybe flirted with the top 6 he would have had more fans but we would ahve been brike very quickly... as it was had we not come up against an Arsenal side in a cup final, but a crappy smaller team, we may well have had a trophy we could have been proud of.... because it woudl have been won by a side that lived entirely within its means... and not many can say that.... that infrastructure investment was also a contributing factor as to why we were worth MLs investment... because it was all in place - no need to spend 100mil + on a 30k seater teh difficukties of finding land suitable for a training ground and academy set up... I am sutre there are many Leeds fans who like pompey fans say the debt and downfall was worth it for a taste of that success... but in both cases it will always be tarnished by the real cost - that of cheating creditors.

FFS Dalek - no one is denying that Hoddle is a good coach - or that it MIGHT have been better to reappoint him, but thats is HISTORY and all things have changed since then. From where I am sitting NA seems to have his own ideas and the results suggest they are working rather well !

I think the signing issue is a classic case of being 'conditioned' into believeing its so vitally important... The issue is IMPROVING the team and quality of play to ensure the hifghest possible number of victories. That can be done in far more ways than just signings: 1. best possible pre season training and fitness 2. best quality coaching including ball skills 3. Conistent squad - familiarisation with team players/gelling if you like and a side that has been together for 2-3 years can do wonders 4. General improvement in individuals - as they get older, more coaching and importantly more experience 5. solid team spirit/confidence. Yes better players can be part of that, but only a part - if you can tick the other 5, you will see improvement - whether its enough to see you progress at the pace each of us fans expect is another matter, but as we have seen on countless examples - often far more is achieved by the sum of the parts than by shining stars. A single transfer can upset that balance and disrupt the spirit if not done right or by panicking and getting someone in for teh sake of it, even if on paper they are better than what we have... I trsut NC and NA to do things their way and given that NA has achiived 100 points in just 45 games (2.2+ points per game), he must have gotten something right!

Wonderful , sometimes naive optimism is surely what is in most fans blood - its what keeps you going when in the darkest corners after relagtions and players sales. To have a start that we have had, is fantastic and provides everything a proper fan could ask for - it allows you to dream again and believe that all things are possible. But, no one is getting carried away. There is a long way to go and some tough times ahead - we will deal with thsoe when they happen. I really cant understand the likes of these doom and gloom wind up merchants - if they get so little pleasure from watching saints, or the moment we have some success to celebrate are masochistically whipping themselves into an orgasmic frenzy, not about the success, but because they believe it will herald misery and pain to come, then why dont tehy just feck off and support ManU, City or Chelski like the millions of other feckwit moronic armchair fans. That way they can leave supporting clubs like saints to real fans who enjoy teh good times because they know there are always challenges ahead. The good news for saints is, that we finally after many years of struggle have a manager, a chairman and a team that is truely united in its vision, its passion and direction. That does NOT guarrantee success or promotion or even fullfilment of the '5 year plan' - but it it gives you the best possible foundation to try and improves your chances. As said football is all about dreams - if some want to dream of saints in the champions league, why not let them? Those dreams are what keeps fans on the terraces in all divisions. There is enough misery in football as it is, given the way in which money has made it a closed shop at the very top and created sides playing in fear of relegation rather determined to entertain whatever the impact on the result, without dim wit arseholes like Darlek and Wayman adding to it... Jeez. Wind up or not its not funny anymore.. just sad. We will lose a game at soem point, we will lose a few this season, we may yet lose more than we win... but you know what? At least we finally know that the team, players, manager and chairman and staff are all TRYING to do their best. As a SUPPORTER, I cant ask for more than that. So Darlek, Waymen and all you other doom and gloom miserable feckers.... go **** yourselves. I will enjoy our form while it lasts.

Feck...meant to be doing DIY, but had to keep checking on teh score...sat in front of teh BBC web page for last 15 mins... mare.... good test and will hopefully ensure feet firmly on ground... would be great if someone can give a short overview of how we played/they played etc. Where they 'in our face' and are we likely to see this sort of thing agin from otehr teams? Congrats on 10 league wins in a row and 4 wins out of the first 4 - great record.