Frank's cousin

Uhm... agreed to some extent,and whilst we need to keep it all in perspective, cant see there is anything wrong in admiring and celebrating success... we can afterall the target was promotion, we cant majically get promoted from L1 to the prem directly or something equally silly... ;-) Not sure its just Saints fans, but we do seem to have a culture oif 'down playing' or being negative about success... 'its only L1, should be expected' etc, which is of course true, but way too dismissive. There is a huge amount to be GAINED from a positive attitude, letting teh god will factor of ANY success, add to the momentum, success breeds success and we should all be jumping on that bus.

***** fight over nothing...trying to compare Pearson v out NIge is surely not the point? i thought it was about tehd ecisons amde by Boards to change managers? We have seen Lowe, not renew Pearsons contract, and NC sack Pardew. Both had their reasons and we can speculate all we like about the whys and teh relative merits or stupidity of the decisons, but to start comparing records seems ridiculous - given so many variables, squad strength (saints and Leicester at the time), the finances and support etc... simply too complex to debate. One thing we can say for certain is that Pearson, Pards and Nige all have their strengths and weaknesses, and given the same squad and resources I think all woyuld have gotten us out of L1, so why teh nedd to compare? Remember, the 'loyalty' some fans show to certain managers, tends to be biassed anyway and is largly dependent on your attitude and opinion of the one doing the sacking multiplied by how results go for the next person in the hot seat... Had the dutch duo pulled off a miracle, would we still be talking about Pearson? Had Nige fecked it up, woudl we not be on NCs back for sacking Pards? Come on be honest, FFS this has nothing to do with their individual merits, just another stick to beat up chairman you dont like with the fan wisdom of hindsight. We dont know how the dutch duo would have done had we not been forced financially to go down the kid route, nor do we know whether Pearson would have faired any better if just having access to the youngsters, but too often IMHO, the pros and cons seem more closely linked to WHO appointed/sacked them rather than a fair assessment bof abilty based on teh footballing and fincial circumstances in which they were operating.

Some folk have a pop because he was 'linked' or mates with the Crouch/Wilde time... he's also mates with Lawrie/Matt etc... tells jokes about Lowe etc. If that floats your boat fair enough. Not sure having a few beers and telling a few unfunny jokes, deserves the slagging mind... afterall I would suggest 99% of the posters on here have been guilty of that... 'cept me naturally ;-) ... is funny though, how 'doing loads for charity' is so often used to 'defend' someones honour...or crap jokes ;-) being really honest? some of his stuff can be quite funny, but I tend not to 'like it' as I did not agree with his views on the whole board room shenanigns and the personalities that he sided with. Does not make him evil though.

... no one is saying we can be 'barcelona' FFS, but wind up thread or not, some are merely suggesting that the 'MODEL' they have used is one we should possibly strive towards... we will never be that big, or have that global appeal, that much is obvious, but if clubs like schalke or Beyer Leverkusen (with a 20,000 capacity stadium at the time) can reach teh end stages of the Champions league, there is no reason why with a model based on developing the best youth, we cant one day do something similar - sure we may lose the best players as they did after the those successes, but why not aim as high as possible?

Never understood why this whole shebang was ever aout perosnality - IMHO it all comes down to what you want/believe and think about the way a club should be run ... either long term or under difficult short term circumstances... 1. Within your means, invest in youth/infrastructure and look to develop talent without debt on players and wages.... 2. Borrow heavily against future income for a short period of success or a reaction to poor form and potential relegation (Its still cheating whether its 5 mil or 120 mil surely? ;-) How you feel about Lowe, Crouch, Wilde, and NC surely depends on your opinion on the above.... (simplistically) - Add to that that everybody can and will amke mistakes and you have the more complex range of opinion - yet for too many, its about personality - fair enough as we all tend to be ''more forgiving of the beautiful people''

my two penneth.... 1. How to keep youngsters? - almost impossible as heads are turned by agents that promise greater riches at an earlier age - which appeals to those brought up on the 'want it now' short cut culture in this country... the promise od success today, rather than graft for success tomorrow. One idea is to provide educational support for parents around the issues of agents and the their personal greed philosophy - help convinve parents and kids that the best approac is to avoid agents altogether - go down teh Roy Keane route and encourage them simply to have a good solicitor to help with contracts and then educate them on managing their own image rights/sponsorhip deals - if they are successful enough through excellence in performance, attitude and hard work - sponsors will come to them anyway and their solicitor can deal with the contracts for a fixed fee rather than the greed of a percentage for life. That would maybe help solve one of the problems.... but not all. 2. If we can afford it, we need to hold on to youngsters longer - in terms of NOT releasing them too early - some kids have issues around graft that need working on, attitude and behaviour CAN be changed with education, this will help in attracting the best kids, even a new contract model from 16 - 20 etc that give security and time. 3. At a younger level as already pointed out - its ALL about coaching - and scouting - scouting at kids games often overlooks promising kids who are sat on the sidelines simply because tehy are less developed/smaller than the bigger kids in the same age group - I have seen some systems where games are played betwen kids of similar size, rather than age - There are issues here with teh FA age rules etc, but internally should not be an issue - when the clubs holds summer coaching schools we should encourage kids to enjoy it by assuring them its not goiung to be like the school team - they will get a chance because they are playing with kids of a similar physical size, not the crap way many schools operate... the big kids, the big pitch syndrome does not work if we want kids that are skillful but importantly willing to works on it - and at the younger age that comes through enjoyment - kids dont enjoy being sat on teh sidelines and never getting the ball, or having bigger lads have a go becuase they could not make the pass... Many have said this, but where does it happen? 4. Dont forget, though that the real test of Barca will be when this generation needs replacing - there must be a huge element of luck in having identified such talent and that it has all developed at the same time (not withstanding the excelence of the coaching), one of those moments that may not be repeated... we will see. 5. Patience - as fans we need to be prepared to have tough times, see youngsters leave, etc and stick with it, with the manager and with the chairman if we are even to get close to the Ajax model, let alone the Barca one. It needs fans to see the benefit of LONG TERM potential rather than short term bragging rights or wanting teh odd win over a top five side, but understanding that in the early years its about building, developing and infrastructure, talent ID and development, not trophies or league status - yes we need a prem place to see it work, but as we are seeing now the ground work can be done at any time. - If fans are prepared for the approach, then great, but we cant get on the clubs back, every time we suffer a home defeat to a prem also ran or even pompey - teh plan must be bigger than the fan collective ego. Desserting the terraces (seats) because of bad results, wont keep us on track.

Not so much a Lowe debate, but a response to Hypo's post - if indeed Cortese has that vision and that strategy WITH the financial backing from the 'estate' (our official owners are listed as the 'Estate of Markus Liebherr), things look very promising indeed. But as many have noted, there are parallels with previous strategies, thats all. In the past though, there has not been the resource to ensure steady progress, whilst waiting for the longer term plans to bare fruit, so when confronted with major squad injuries, poor form and inexperienced managers still learning, it was alwasy going to be a struggle. The problem with the whole SCW /Clifford thing etc, was a classic case of a good idea, fecked up because of **** poor planning - Lowe should have known 3 things: Harry was a media darling, would not be prepared to share the spot light and had no real interest in us long term anyway so would not be happy; 2) the football media themselves are generally olod school and this woudl create a feeding frenzy, especially as they love nothing more than bringing somedown after success, and especially after the diaster that was the Lions tour 3) fans - read papers, prefer managers over board, especially one as unpopular as Lowe.... yet Lowe went ahead and in his usual way ignored the negative impact potentential if he failed to get his communication right and clear - which he did... sad episode, doomed from the start, despite tehe concept having a huge amoint of merit. Cortese, has the advantage - he is able to introduce strategis and concepts at a time of success on the field - even potentially the same strategies, but because fans are happy due to on the field success, we are happy to see the club be innovative, think big, and pleased we seemingly have the resources to do it. Add to that he can keep quiet and just work behind the scenes without worring about the media and its all seen in a more positive light, even if the strategies are similar. Lowes, blunders time an again seemed to revolve around timing and communication - had he got those two things right, I think he would have found a more forgiving/receptive fanbase to ideas and strategies... it should not be forgotten though, that IMHO many fans are maybe now less demanding of spending big and taking financial risks after we have been through admin, and also after seeing what has happened down the road. How tempting must it have been for Lowe to improve his popularaity amongst fans by simply spending big on a couple of big names when in the prem? Yet had they failed to settle or improve our position, what woudl that have achieved except debt... maybe more understand that now?

True, Lowe put nothing in... he was a sharholder and did not have the wealth to make a real difference, niether did Crouch or Wilde. Lowe had a strategy when in teh prem, of break even, invest in the infrastructure/academy etc... most though that he was a cock as a result that others around us were buying players for 10mil + , why not us? Because we did not want debt... Crouch and Wilde had a strategy of risking teh spare cash on a do or die promotion attempt that nearly paid off... Lowe only came back when we were on teh brink - probably very ill advised as it was too late. Hindsight is a wonderful thing... for me, its meant that Lowe, Wilde and Crouch actually dont come out of this as bad as the wounds of teh time suggest - there was no malice or greed as some love to suggest, just strategies that worked or failed, and mistakes made in teh interests of economies.. -that will never sit well with most fans, but teh staregy of avoiding debt and thus spening teh surplus on infrastructure is certainly a model that should be Mandatory - i t should simply be not allaowed to get into debt to either institutions or individuals to buy playesr aor pay wages - gifts of cash from rich owners should be declred in advance of a financial year so there is a set budget that all clubs should adhere to... but never going to happen, not when clubs like pompey can get away with cheating theiir way to 2 cup finals....

UHm... Always been an advocate of the infrastructure FIRST and then when thats in place, its should be easier to attract and keep young talent, supplemented by the experienced pros... the best recipe etc... Under the previous regimes we had our hands tied - we could either afford one or the other - Lowe chose teh infrstructure route , which meant lack of real funds for the first team to make any inroads and build on the 2003 successes. I dont think that caused relegation, but the loss of Strachan and then lesser managers without the time to bed in, injuris to key players and then Redknapp... etc - arguably the 2005 squad should have been good enough to stay up.... With CRouch and Wilde, they looked at it the other way, invested teh cash we had recouped from the sales of quality youth (directly a result of the infrastructure investment) in a bid to get back up.. it failed on a penalty shootout and thus begun the more serious financial problems) There are few clubs that can do both... and if what Hypo says is true, and we can, then that is extremely good news. I would feel much better having success with players who have been at teh club since they were 14-16 than teh Chelsea/City approach - it may mean that if we had a successful year we may lose a few of teh starlets, and have to rebuild, but if teh infrastructure is there, thats not a really bad thing... as eventually we may just hang on to a few.

Think the 19 odd managers in 20 years is symptomatic of a couple of things, including the boards mistakes... but we are not alone in 'panic' stakes - managers that are dumped early simply because the financial stakes have become so much higher - the cavern of top flight relegation and the potential loss of 50%+ of the revenues has everyone jumpy - depsite the cliches of 'stability, loyalty and time - personified by Ferguson at Man U, those clubs have the luxury of size/wealth to be able to afford a greater degree of stabilty (which is why Abramovic at Chelski seems to be making very odd decsions ) but for most its teh panic that drive it... and when clubs do stick it out and still get relegated (see Avram at West Ham), if simply adds fuel to the argument that its better to try something new quickly - if skirting with relegation by CHristmas, new manager etc becomes the mantra - divides fan opinion for sure. In Lawrie's day, teh club could afford to have the loyalty sown towards a bright young manager, even when relegated to div 2, simply because the finances were not that different, and couls afford the luxury of a long term investment in someone who had obvious potential. Not something any club does today, unless happy mid table in the lower leagues... real shame, as its no coincidence that our period of greatest success came with stabilty and by giving a young manager time to build his side even with a relegation thrown in..... that and the ability to attract players of higher quality as wage demands were more realistic. I think Adkins probably has 2 seasons to get us promoted to the prem, maybe even included in his contract, with extra clauses on what resources will be availble in that time... but If he does not deliver, I suspect we would also see new blood... who knows, as we have not seen how NC will react if targets are not met yet (Pards sacking, had little to do witrh results IMHO, unless he had agreed to promotion/playoff target in that first season and failed...)

... hilarious... you make a sweeping statement with no facts, no insight to back any of this crap up.... ... 'you cant get tough' and ship out players under contract - simple as. we have retained players in the past and now who may not ever feature in teh first team because of CONTRACTS, nothing to do with being soft about it. MOst sane fans KNOW that we need to strengthen a fair bit if we want to compete - the question is whether the REAL strategy is to see how it goes first half of season using the momentum of the thsi season and teh squad spirit and then go for promotion the season after... or whether we spend this summer and go for it... it will come down to money and whatever some 'believe' about the wealth of our owners, they are not stupid. Thety will buy if there is somepone available at the right price who WANTS to come here, in a position we need it... We know this squad will probably be good enogh to be mid table NPC... at best, but your attack on the club about not beeing tougher in releasing players is palin stupid...

Come on.. . leave Alpine alone. he is merely looking at it from the prospective model that it might be opportunistic to capitalise on the positive end of season vibes to max sales and that is as valid a model as the one suggested by the clubs actions. I doubt that tthe busienss model is based on 'don't care', would be very naive to think so... but there are many considerations they will have taken into account - early birds and purchase at a time when many are planning holidays, current economic cliamte etc... also they will be reviewing the budget in detail following promotion and assessment of transfer and wage issues based on what they feel they need.. so that they can set the price to meet the budget, balancing this against value for money and competitive pricing... if we know anything about BC, its that he is detail focussed and this focus is what will hopefully maximise teh budget for Nige, without upsetting the books. From a marketing perspective, the 'delay' approach can also work in your favour, building a sense of anticipation amongst fans etc. But Alps also makes a valid point here and seems a shame that everyone jumps on his back... because of his 'reputation' ;-)

Yep totally bored... first summer in ages where we have not had misery to discuss be it, division over owners, shareholders, relegation, administration, turmoil,... or manager speculation as last summer... just got to sit and wait for the transfer window to open, following promotion, with a decent manager, a decent chairman, a decent squad.... yeah bored..... but i'll take being bored any day! ;-)

Who the feck is this Uglyinsider ... have suspicisons ;-0.... jeez, JS is just doing his job... to generate interest in the club news etc. What's he expected to say '' there will be some news that some of you will find not very interesting''? If some idiots cream themselves by getting over excited in anticipation of news and then have a go when they are 'dissapointed' they are IMHO, utter t**ts!

The Rode NT1-A is good all rounder - have one as well and for the price its great. Also use another cheapy Audio Technica AT3525 which is good for an acoustic...but recently got hold of a DPA 4099 (condenser) designed for live performances and is fantastic for live real acoustic tone (and clips to teh giutar with a gooseneck)... so I tried recording with it... was OK, but great when I went through a channel strip (Focusrite platinum trakmaster). Still trying to find the optimum for acoustic guitar recording, so far best bet seems to be to dual mic, into two seperate channels with different mic positions the DPA just over the fingerboard at the body join and the Rode or AT between the bridge and soundhole and mix the two ;-) ...and 20:20 vision, dont dis the SM58 - best live vocal mic there is ;-)

Whilst I would agree with much of what you say.... I would make the point though that as a 'policy' at least having a longer term contract in place is designed to 'encourage' stability. Naturally, if relative to the resources Nige is given next seasson, we struggle, then it will still be up to NC to decide if NIge is able to LEARN quickly enough in a second CCC season to put us in contention... very difficult situation and question to asnwer without a chrystal ball ;-) BUt I think the point is, that in this modern era, would someone like Lawrie have survived the the chop, given the impact on finances that comes with relegation, even if he had potential? I think not as boards prefer to change managers, rather than place the eggs in the 'he has potential' basket. For me the question over Nige is not about what he has achieved in L1 - there should be no doubt about what he has achieved - given the potential impact of the Pardew sacking and then losses on teh bouncve in caretaker mode.... and to turn that around and out perform every other manager in the league from that point on in terms of points tally is no mean feat, even with the resources we have... ...no the question over Nige is whether he will be able to learn quickly enough to respond to the demands of the NPC and make us competitive (subject to appropriate resources being added) to satisfy not necessarily the fans, but more importantly NC and fulfil the plan. I think most fans would be satisfied with solid progress, top half, possibly skirting with the playoffs and then win it the next season... but we should not underestimate the power of momentum and the positive spirit if we make some wise/get lucky additions... the benefit of promotion, and the impact on budget woudl be phenomenal, but we would need to be prepared for a possible relegation, as I think it will be exceedingly tough to be competitive if we were promoted yet again.. So, Nige will be back under pressure - I suspect he is will be capable of managing at a higher level, but needs to continue developing and getting more experience rapidly if he is to meet NC's target. I for one hope he succeeds in that, as for me his greatest asssest has been the way he has instilled a certain steel around within the squad... the results in the last 14 games with only 1 defeat and 1 draw, exemplified that, especially in the face of amazing competition and pressure from Huddersfield (and the posh until they faded) - in the past I do think we would have capitulated far easier and its that change for which he should be given the biggest credit.

Feck does t matter? Puncheon does not want to be here, so hes been sent out on loan and we will probably sell him... end of strory really. Sure its a shame that some players do (speculation) look for short cuts to higher levels, rather than working for a side to achieve it the hard way - with IMHO geater satisfaction of knowing its teh results of hard graft etc, but it does not make him evil. Agents, 'advisors' have probably all played their part in turning his head and that's not exactly uncommon these days. Naturally, Adkins knows that what was needed for promotion from L1 was unity. The sum of the parts etc. If someone, through WHATEVER reason, does not fit with that approach, it causes a fall out... player moves on...thats life... no need for fans to start the spoilt child bit call him all things under the sun.... best approach is to show him what he's been missing... and get him to question his attitude or that of his advisors...

THIS!!! Top post Seems many on here are judgiung Adkins by their own belief in the media hype and their own pre-season 'we will walk this league' misconceptions. I suspect, that when the c ontract wa offered in Jan and even though signed by Adkins, the ink is probably only just dry with respet to NC's sigature, in that a prerequisit was promotion this season... speculation I know, but I dont think NC is naive. I also suspect that the contract will contain clauses around key performance milestones and that Adkins will be under continuing pressure to meet those... from his side the benefits, will i suspect, be good rewards if these milestones are met. We all know continuity is important and that if you get the right manager, who can learn and build a side over a number of years, it usually means a better chance of success, so for me one of the best aspects of this is that NC recognises this and sees the value in continuity, stabilty and loyalty. BUt no one is that naive to suggest that if does not meet the targets, that he will be here indefinitely. But FFS, who here can say honestly they know what those targets are? Sure we WANT to have a real go at back to back promotions, and the target for next season shoudl reflect that, BUT that is different to what may be included as key performance milestones in any contract extension, which will more likely be based on obvious progress and a minimum of a top half finish - decent improvement and getting set up for a challenge on an auto spot the following seaso. Also Akins would be the first to admit that he has a lot to learn... but rather than seeing this as a negative thing, I see this a very positive. Some fans seem to think that because he was not a big name, or had an extensive playing record, that he had no business coming to our 'massive L1 club' - seems somes fans need a name to satisfy tehir own egos... maybe we shoudl just look back a few years and remind ourselves of the most succesful period in this clubs history and who the manager was, his 'playing' background and experience....

Thing is its also that balancing act - he has 2 years left on his contract - if we were to get back to back promotions and be in the prem, could you see AOC signing an extension? If not, then surely its best to let him go with the longest term and thus the best fee? Difficult because we want to see our chairman play hardball, but the realities are such that we could end up with nothing if we keep players until their contracts are up... and I actually agree with the bosman!

Firstly we dont know if this latest article has anything to do with 'legends' or whether its simply the Daily Hate doing one of its trawling trash shieidt maskerading as journolism... Afterall, I never felt that generally the media 'liked' us anyway with a few exceptions. Since the prem era, I think there have been many who would have seen us relegated early on to make room for the 'big clubs' that have the national pull... They dont mind 'plucky' teams flirting with the big oys for a season or two, given a pat on the back and patronised ...'now feck off back to the lower leagues wher you belong and dont reduce out TV audience share etc'... so it never surprizes me when we see negativity in the press. So whats Lawries beef? MLT? Benali?... uhm. In an ideal world, I dont think anyobne would begrudge ex servants of the club some freebies and invites and requests to be involved and associated with the club - afterall the history etc, is what fans rightly see as an intrinsic part of the club, its cluture and importantly its surely just teh 'done thing' to look after your own? But with Matt and Lawrie we have a small problem... NC was very clear when he took charge that one of the things he wanted to rid the club of was the divisions caused by the ploitics, the wranglings and splits associated with the previous owners and board members that divided fans. Because both lawrie and Matt had become involved in this through being employed by previous boards or throiugh their support of key characters or rival bids themselves, they entered the game. So naturally they were included in the blanket 'welcome but pay' approach.... I do believe that had both Matt and Lawrie NOT been involved in any of the previous bo llocks we may have seen an exception or too to Corteses' approach - afterall did thsoe invited to the Man U cup game all pay? maybe, I dont know. BUt as a result, egos have been bruised and we have seen the public fallout - and if being honest, whatever your take on the rights and wrongs of the no freebies policy, the fact reamins that it has been Lawrie and Matt who have become vocal in the media about it. No one can deny that its negative and an unnecssary distraction. No one WANTS to be critical of these guys whose contribution has rightly earned them the legend status, but its impossible to see what is to be gained by their very public critism, apart form an attempt to unsettle the leadership or the owners? I cant halp but have a small worry, (maybe bordering on conspiracy theory nonsense) that its designed to chip away at the enjoyment NC gets form all this - maybe wish he was off and the club for sale? OK maybe overkill, but I simply cant see any other rationale reason why they would want to portray the club in this negative way in the press, especially when all things on teh pitch have been going so well - its like whilst the rest of us are on the bus, they would rather walk in the rain because they dont like the driver... We know that both Matt and Lawrie are decent blokes, do a huge amount of good work locally and are not some sort of evil monsters. OK so big Egos, but thats never been an issue in football and not a problem for me, its what made them successful... but surely this is now becomming just a tad annoying? I know there are those for whom they can do no wrong 'if LM or Matt are critical of NC, they must be right' - but this is blinkered. I suspect NC has gotetn things wrong, and upset a few folk, and its rioght he should not be beyond criticism if constructive and supportive of growth and progress we as a club want to achieve - but these public criticisms, have no value, are not constructive and just smack of bruised egos and pettiness - which is what makes it so sad. It makes both Matt and Lawrie (and it should be pointed out that we dont know if this latest media bo llox was their work or not) just look childish... the last thing any fan wants is to see their heros legendary status become erroded by this constant bleating - and I am struggling to see a rational and reasonable explanation as to why these stories continue - LM or Matty could and should end it now. It would be in the clubs as well as their own interests to do so - or tehy end up looking stupid.... unless the conspiracy theorists are right and they do have an Agenda?

LOL (In a friendly way Alps) - because if our worst 'bad run' is a defeat and a draw... I can live with that. What you said before about the pessimism thing after the Away result at Walsaw - fair enough - but i would also say that it might not have been necessary for our run, had Hudders not been so darn consistent - think in a perverse way, their run actually helped us focus and dig deep - as did teh odd defeat and draw - HUdders may have been unbeaten, but too many draws in that run is what cost them - which in the past has usually been our problem...

Dont think its so much 'bitter and twisted' - just perplexing at times. This gesture, shows exactly that he is obviously a warm, compassionate and kind man, going out of his way to do something, quietly and personal and that shows great character. The work he does locally for charities and local causes exemplifies that he is obviously a decent bloke. What he did for saints is already legendary, and nothing can take away from that.... which is why sometimes it just seems odd that hes seems to have taken the way the takeover panned out so personally and that he cant seem to be able to let it go. I think and hope all (and I suspect) 99.9 % of fans will look at Daren's post and recognise that its these sort of things should and do outweigh any of the other stuff. Its nice to see and as Daren states, something that does LM great credit.

He'll be settling down with the second bottle of red by now is my bet.... and thinking about how next season will be tough ;-)

As Nicola himself commented in that long Video interview, it did surprise him how negative and suspicious we all seem to be, but he could perhaps understand it given what we had been through... Whilst like most fans, its always interesting to hear gossip and rumour, afterall its what these boards are all about - I must admit to not understanding the rationale for posting negative stories, especially when the sources are spurious or not given... because whetehr intentional or not, it gives the perception of an agenda... and we have all perhaps had our skinful of it. I think the problem for Duncs and one or two others that have been associated closely with the club and its employees etc, is that more wieght is lent to their posts by that association, even if they go to the trouble of pointing out that its spurious-its perhaps unfair, but I guess they need to be a bit more careful simply because of the way these stories can get a life of their own, when their names are associated with them....

I think though what this all highlights is that we have over the years become so distrustful of any 'regime' - and to be fair, we have all had strong opinions on the merits and dismerits of the various incumbants often fuelled by our own 'agendas' depending on which side a particular fence we were sat on. During those periods that we would ideally all like to forget, those with 'links' to the club, naturally became sources of info. Ideally, the info would always have been provided without any associated bias, but it would be impossible to expect that and I think its appreciated by most that readers that they needed to make up their own minds as to the what could taken as fact, gossip, or rumour designed to maybe influence public feeling... propoganda is too strong a word, but it would be naive not to acknowledge that was certainly plenty of 'agenda dressed as info' at the time. I think that suspicion and distrust was carried over by some when Markus and Nicola arrived, possibly as most fans still feel naturally concerned when owners arrive with no apparent links and only a buisness based background. However, I think for most we were just glad to be alive, to still ahve a club and felt that it was always somewhat churlish to begin poking and disecting every action and approach, looking for holes and undermining the joy most felt at simply having a club to support - and to be fair, the nit picking began almost from day one. It was as if some would simply not accept any regime unless it was 100% to their liking. and that ****ed a few folk off, because we just wanted to enjoy teh fact that we had not only survived, but had found someone who wanted to see us rise from the ashes as much as the fans did. Its hy many simply dont understand the need to be publically critical, even if the critism is perhaps justified when teh issue is taken in isolation - and i think that's it in a nutshell. NC has done things that when taken in isolation possibly wont be to everyones liking, fair enough. But when looked at over his tenure to date, or in light of the REAL reasons why certain actions were taken, they become almost trivial compared to the positives - I guess it depends pon your personal threshold for how much needs to be done inline with to your particular opinion... for me if 80% is right, I simply dont have the energy or desire to rake over teh 20% - seems daft to me, especially as most of it will be unsubstantiated or critiqued without the benefit of knowing teh rationale behind it. The removeal of the payment plan was a classic - major wranglings on here, about its removal, yet i am sure now most understand WHY it was necessary, so the real critique should and eventually be aimed at the communication of it rather than the action itself - and for me, if NC is crap at communication, but delivers on the 5 year plan, thats more than good enough for me - and probably most fans - simply put, communication really only matters when things are not going well... and then most will describe it as spin anyway ! ;-) Seriously, I think most are just fed up with the perceived NEED to know every litlle detail and if its negative at a time when on teh pitch everything is rosey, its becomes wide open to accustaions of conspiarcy and stirring teh pot of some hidden agenda. I have spoken and shared a few ales with Dincan on quite a few occasions. He commands (and has earned) my respect despite the fact I dont always agree with his views. The fact that he had links with some of teh players of the past, naturally makes it more difficult to be perceived as unbiassed when presenting info now... I would just say though, that personnaly I dont feel the need to worry aboutwhether NC is nice to work for or not or some otehr gossip, because his job is to deliver results, and from where I am sitting so far top marks! I think we just need to lose the distrust of things associated with business in football. I do believe some of the maining naysayers probably have their roots deep within the old fashioned ideals of the local club run and owned in trusts by local people. None of that is wrong in principle but its almost impossible (especially for a club of Saints size) to deliver success on those ideals in this business driven age. No one has ever said NC should be above criticism, no one should, but maybe just maybe, its time we put faith back into it and learned to trust those loooking after the club again so we focus on what really matters - support? I guess, what I am getting at in 50 lines of verbage, is do we really need to criticise everything, or is that just to satisfy our own egos?