West end Saints

Last year after 17 games Burnley had 32 Sheff Uni 29 Luton 25 So, know how shit we were last season, players that left, complete overall of style, the manager being given Ryan Fraser (unfit) Fraser downs ill) Sulemana (injured) 3 injured / unfit CBS, Steward injured etc etc, players leaving late. Any, absolutely anyone would have said, when asked how Martin was doing after 17, that he would be 1 point of burnelys great season, unbeaten in 9, and top of current form, everyone would say impressive start, without fail. Some are enjoying changing their expectations to have a moan and look edgy

Of course the manager should take the blame for bad form, he took personal responsibility when we had 4 defeats, spoke about things he got wrong. Just as he should take credit for 9 games unbeaten and top of the current form table. I suspect that those slagging him off would not have predicted we would get 31 points from first 17, and if that was suggested at the start of the season would have thought that was a good start and beyond him!

Disappointed with Downes, he only managed 79 passes in that half, not able to match Huddersfield's 80 between them

Something I'm looking to implement... To do that the first port of call was to get the manager. That clearly means he wanted it a certain way and the first thing he wanted to get sorted was his manager. Loads of other reporting saying it was his choice but without direct quotes. Looks like Wilcox knows what he is doing!

After 16 games last season: Burnley 29 points Sheff U 26 Luton 24 Middlesborough 17 Coventry 20 Sunderland 20 Us this season 30 points after 16. 8 games unbeaten, best for 10 years. Top of current form. Going to be a long season, but looks great appointment and nice guy. (and if you want to have a laugh read the assessments of him on this thread)

Where I personally disagree with your assessment is over what the expectations were for the first third of the season. Without going over old points in detail, we were awful for a long time before relegation and showed a total lack of character and spirit during the last three managers, we then had disruptive departures and for whatever reason signed players late who were unfit or unwell. So with that knowledge what would be a reasonable aim? After 15 games last season: Burnley 26 points Sheff U 25 Luton 24 Middlesborough 16 Coventry 17 Sunderland 20 So if you set a target at the beginning of the season then 26 points would have been seen as very ambitious. We have 27. I fully appreciate we have to better this seasons competitors but it is ridiculous to suggest that 27 points from 15, with the mess he inherited, with increasing good form is anything other than an excellent start. Find it bizarre reading people on this thread writing him off as a crap manager and out of his depth. A personal subjective view is that I also love the style, the one touch passing into tight gaps etc is the pure football I enjoy.

I genuinely didn't know your views as first visit, I think to this thread. However, having read your reply, I think I could have safely stopped at the first bit in bold. After that, I think it is best that I leave it with, as long as you are happy in your views and you are not harming then you carry on. I won't waste your or my time pointing out rational points as it will probably only wind us both up and you won't suddenly see the light. Take care X

Two things, firstly that is wrong. The increase is due to inflation, so a negative issue. The inflation adjusted figures show a decrease. Secondly, I don't know how politically aware you are, so don't want to patronise, but IEA is not a source of any credibility. Their recent credits include backing Liz Truss and denying climate change.

He had more successful passes yesterday than any Millwall player! His passing and confidence receiving the ball is vital for our style of play. (I appreciate saves important too!)

Maybe it was less that he addressed it, more that he was right, that if the players trusted him and his methods they would learn, improve and it would work. Of course there have been changes, but rather than a negative that he was wrong, it shows him making his principals work - the possession based football. It was fair, and reasonable for people to have doubts, or to still have doubts, but those writing him off, or saying he is crap, put of his depth etc, were perhaps being blinkered and not accepting that he knows a fair bit more than they do! I would be very surprised if we don't make top 6. The top two will, of course be hard, but we are performing well enough and are improving (as shown as being ahead of where Burnley were at this stage plus our last 7 game form). It will also depend on whether those around us keep up their form. There is no arguing that it is a good start, perhaps overshadowed by two teams have amazing starts.

Having a disruptive transfer window, and trying to change completely the style and mentality, and signing several players who were unfit due to injury, sickness or lack of preseason, injury to Sulemana etc, how has his start been.... After 15 games we have 27 points. Last year's three promoted teams had 26, 25 and 24. The team spirit is the best in years. 5 wins, 2 draws in last 7. Those 7 Including beating Leeds who are above us and in good form. Two clean sheets. Two wins by two goals. Players adapted to his possession football. Making key effective substitutions. Subjective one, but attractive entertaining football. Style breaking teams down as they struggle to chase the ball. A long, long, way to go but clearly, despite what several repetitively said on here, not crap, not out of his depth, not trying to implement a style that won't work. Overall, a good start and looking promising appointment.

Was it much different from Pope on Djenepo last season? Like most I have double standards on this, often moan that other keepers get away with too much and are too protected but happy to benefit when it is in our favour. That was my view yesterday. Having seen the replay, I think it was even less likely to be given - the forward had knocked the ball on, then Bazunu clattered him - ball already lost, GB had every right to go for it, then heavy coming together.

I don't think he needs to 'change his spots'. Just keep improving the consistency, the players are learning his way of playing a d it good to watch. He adapts and players change positioning regularly during the game so it is not a fixed pattern, but the 'Russball' that some use as a criticism looks like it is working.

Entertaining Playing with style and identity 6 games unbeaten Crowd singing his name Clearly good team spirit Still not sure how we will do over the season but pretty clear he will be at least ok/decent, and may do well. Those how on here who think he is crap are completely entitled to their view, but although repeated frequently by the group, I don't think what I see from fans at the ground.

Strange post. Ignored qpr not due to skill but they were irrelevant to what I was curious about. We are not, and I would be very surprised if we improve this season into a team close to Burnley of last season. So I don't need to give anything up. Although if did hold that view doubt a Victor meldew rant would change my view! We aren't doing great. We had a terrible run of 4 games but before/after that we are doing OK. RM will be here all season, relax and enjoy the ride of good football mixed with some silly weak defensive play!

Just because I was interested, not to prove anything either way, The final top 6 teams after their first 13 games last season: Burnley 3rd 22 points Sheff U 1st 24 Luton 12th 17 Middlesborough 15th 16 Coventry 13th 17 Sunderland 5th 20 We are 5th with 21. So more points than any of play off teams had. 1 point off where champions were, 3 off where second were (who then lost a couple)

We are 5th? I am not 100% convinced but find it quite amusing how negative people are on here about him. I was gutted when we went behind, telling the TV we would never equalise and having a good moan then. But he as at least turned the bad run of 4 defeats into 5 unbeaten, and 4 points from last two away games. He ain't that bad!

Hilarious, recent games have saved him from the sack... Pretty much like every other manager! In other words, recently he is doing well.

2nd half leading to winning goal, 68% possession Shots 14 - 4 AccuratePasses 291 - 124 Pass accuracy 90% - 82% Shots 14-4 From the commentary, and stats sounds like Martin's half time plus substitutions got us a deserved 3 points.

They have won one in last 6?? We've won two!

Win every game we go up. We are improving. We are playing some good quality attacking football. Results still disappointing. I'm happy with him as our manager for the foreseeable future. But with all managers, lose 6 in a row you are shit, win 6 you are great, in between there will be mix of views.

think many posts are understandable frustration and emotional. We played well for a decent part today. The first 25 mins or so was excellent. Apart from the finishing no one can complain. Good possession, moving the ball quickly,midfielders overlapping etc. Could have, and should have been 3 or 4 up. Clearly how the manager set them up so don't think it was his fault at all today. I enjoyed it. The scary (close to me) medical emergency understandably took away some of the atmosphere and energy from both crowd and players. But we all knew we would suffer from not killing the game. In the second half Rotherham were offering nothing, sat back, seemed happy to keep to 1-0. We started to run out of ideas and slowed down. I could not see why Che was even considering giving their keeper the ball, and him being a mug led to the goal. I am frustrated and disappointed. I am also unhappy about how far off the top two we are. But personally don't agree with booing players, and manager after 7 points in a week and a game where we played well, created loads, etc but missed out on a win due to 1) a goal keeper having the game of his life 2) missed chances 3) Che stupidity 4) a period of 20 mins or so when we looked a bit complacent and slowed down go play out the game. Not sure how we will do under Martin but he is no where near being sacked and nor should he be.

Good post. I think many posts are understandable frustration and emotional. We played well for a decent count of today. The first 25 mins or so was excellent. Apart from the finishing no one can complain. Good possession, moving the ball quickly,midfielders overlapping etc. Could have, and should have been 3 or 4 up. Clearly how the manager set them up so don't think it was his fault at all today. I enjoyed it. The scary (close to me) medical emergency understandably took away some of the atmosphere and energy from both crowd and players. But we all knew we would suffer from not killing the game. In the second half Rotherham were offering nothing, sat back, seemed happy to keep to 1-0. We started to run out of ideas and slowed down. I could see why Che was considering giving their keeper the ball, and him being a mug led to the goal. I am frustrated and disappointed. I am also unhappy about how far off the top two we are. But personally don't agree with booing players, and manager after 7 points in a week and a game where we played well, created loads, etc but missed out on a win due to 1) a goal keeper having the game of his life 2) missed chances 3) Che stupidity 4) a period of 20 mins or so when we looked a bit complacent and slowed down go play out the game. Not sure how we will do under Martin but he is no where near being sacked and nor should he be.

Thought interesting thing in press conference was when a comment was made about how useful Sulemana will be if he can get his head right that Martin looked shocked at the comment, and then spoke very highly of his character and confidence. Maybe any rumours about sulking etc are miles off

To be fair I can't judge a player by one game. But one thing you did get right Piroe played nothing like Armstrong