trousers

Dodgy analogy alert... You contact a building firm to build you an extension. The building firm assigns you a project manager and a builder to complete the work. The project manager and builder both sit down with you to talk through the plans and convince you to try out a new revolutionary mortar that they are both very enthusiastic about. You agree, but with reservations as this type of mortar has only ever been proven to work on windmills before. The project manager leaves the builder to complete the work and you are happy with the finished extension, as it looks really good from the outside. However, over several weeks you start to see cracks appearing in the mortar. You repeatedly contact the builder who reassures you that the problems are superficial. After many weeks the extension shows signs of collapse. So, you give the building firm an ultimatum and, thus, they sack the builder and get the original project manager to come in and fix the problem for you. He looks at the mortar and says "hmmm, not sure that was the right thing to do in the first place, guvnor". We'll need to change that for you. So, he drills out 50% of the new revolutionary mortar and back-fills it with some good old fashioned mortar. You wait a few more weeks to see if this has done the trick and yes, it looks like the problem was resolved in the nick of time. Do you.... (a) congratulate the building firm and the project manager for his excellent patch up work and thank him for saving your extension from collapse or (b) acknowledge that they got it right in the end but insist on an explanation as to why the project manager went with the hair brained revolutionary mortar in the first place. :confused:

Cheers for that. So it sounds like the OS are being a smidgen over optimistic with their reporting, which isn't a bad thing I guess.

What does this succession plan now say about our next manager?

A supplementary location-based question from me.... Is there a stadium seating map anywhere online that shows the seat numbers at the end of each row (i.e. seats that are next to aisles)? I appreciate I can find out when booking tickets on the phone but would be handy to have this info to hand when booking seats online. cheers

Below is the first Wotte OS article just after he joined. This is what I mean when I say that I believe Wotte was a lot closer to influencing our first team strategy and performances during the first 28 games of the season than some others believe or suggest. There are several articles around this time that emphasise this. I know I'm guilty of dwelling on the (relatively recent) past here but, equally, we shouldn't be sweeping the whys and wherefores of this season's poor performances under the carpet either. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/search/?mode=movenav&page_id=10174 Mark Wotte is delighted to have made it to St Mary's two and a half years late! The Dutch coach was strongly tipped to succeed Harry Redknapp in December 2005 with the media presenting it as a done deal. But a sudden change of heart saw Saints opt for George Burley at the last minute. But now Wotte has been appointed as academy director working alongside Head Coach Jan Poortvliet, Reserve team boss Stewart Henderson and Under 18's coach Dave Hockaday. Wotte explained: "I was offered the job two and a half years ago and I was surprised I was not appointed but Rupert Lowe had a very good explanation. "It was a very difficult time for the club and it might have been too risky then. George Burley got the job - these things happen. "I kept in contact with Rupert Lowe by email and phone, even after he left the club. I like his ideas. "His not conservative but willing to do something else? He appointed Sir Clive Woodward - and I don't disagree with him because Clive has a lot of qualities which can help any professional club." When the call came a second time, Wotte had no hesitation in accepting the role alongside is fellow countryman. Although the pair have not worked together before, they share the same footballing philosophy and a strong belief in a passionate, attacking game founded on talented young players. He added: "A lot of coaches want to take all the decisions but Jan is very open-minded and we will discuss everything and work as a team with Stewart and Dave. "It is a very exciting challenge and one we are all looking forward to. this is a great club and now we need to get it back to the Premier League."

Cheers! Hic!

I've just spent over half hour reading back again through the OS articles published at the time that the "Dutch Duo" were installed and it's quite clear that Lowe and Wilde were promoting and endorsing the on pitch tactics as well as the overall infrastructure changes. IMHO of course

Lord Marland of Odstock would know....shame he doesn't post on here though......

By jove...I think I've got it.....is it celebrity chef James Martin?

Precisely. I've been posing the question "Who put Lowe onto Poortvliet?" for days now (or is that weeks?!) and no-one seems to have a Scooby....or maybe they do....?

Will be difficult to compare the two IMO when the season is done and dusted as both started from different positions. i.e. NP came in cold whereas Wotte has the advantage of having 9 months experience in a senior position at the club.

Saints Trust rejects 'fans' idea A spokesperson for the Southampton Supporters Trust says a proposed 'Fans Parliament' is unnecessary. Nick Illingsworth was responding to Saints chairman Michael Wilde's idea for a new form of dialogue between the club and its supporters. But Illingsworth told BBC Radio Solent: "All the foundations are in place already with the Trust. We're able to address issues with the club." The Trust has 838 members and has 20,000 shares in the PLC.

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Would like to see a picture of that posted on here Phil....cheers

What about Wayne Thomas? I'm a little confused about when he's due to be fit again.....have looked back at the OS articles and he was originally due back "in the new year" after having surgery, and yet the latest articles say that he's recovering "ahead of schedule".... Did I miss an update between his original projected recovery date and now? Can't see one on the OS.... Not sure how someone due back in the "new year" can be "ahead of schedule" in March....?

My perception was that there was an implication, but I wasn't 100% certain, hence the question mark. Happy to stand corrected. I'm simply struggling to reconcile the original internal and external press coverage that quite clearly reported JP and MW were 'working as a seamless team' compared with the picture that is now being painted by some...i.e. that JP and MW weren't working very closely together on tactics etc afterall. But, fair cop, you've spotted I'm being somewhat provocative to try and smoke out the truth. Again, happy to be proven wrong in the process. It's a means to an end. Fair observation. Jan's only post-departure interview (with Setanta) would tend to back up this theory (unlike the OS view of their working relationship of course). Although I am intrigued as to why his broadside wasn't picked up other media outlets given the damning nature of what he said, but anyway. Completely agree. Which brings me back to my often repeated, never answered $64,000 dollar question...Who introduced Lowe to Poortvliet in the first place and convinced him he was as good as Wotte? I'll have to bow to your inside knowledge on that one as I've no way of knowing for sure how close Wotte was to the first team and/or what influence he had on a day-to-day basis (other than the club saying that they would be working closely together from the outset....) Yep, I'll raise a glass to that. p.s. it's Wotte, not Woote, by the way...

1996 ?

Which still begs the question.....who recommended him to Lowe in the first place?

I order you not to add any more posts to this thread. Yours paradoxically, Trousers

Yep, he's got a new job title, but to imply (?) that he had no input whatsoever into first team affairs is, I would venture, bordering on the naive. However, for sake of balance, lets entertain the idea that he did indeed have very little to do with the running of the first team....if this is the case, don't people find it worrying that we had a bloke (Wotte) standing by watching our season go down the pan and all the time he was thinking "God, if I was head coach I'd be playing a more traditional 4-4-2 and insisting some of the older heads played more regularly". Either Wotte was heavily involved in all aspects of the playing side of the club (as per the OS articles from Wilde and co at the time) and, if so, can't be described as a 'new man doing the job' or he had nowt to do with the first team and, if so, the original words from Wilde were hollow and/or Wotte stood by saying nothing whilst thinking that our tactics weren't right. Which is it? Yes, he's brought in new tactics but he could (IMHO) have urged Lowe to nip the problem in the bud a lot earlier rather than wait for 'circumstances' to force him and/or the club into a tactical u-turn.

JP was simply carrying out a strategy hatched in the board room. The OS articles published at the time of their (JP and MW) arrival give the full details of what Wilde and Lowe were thinking. Blaming JP is a bit like blaming an army major for taking us to war in Iraq rather than blaming Blair. (note: I'm not attempting to compare the magnitude of war with the running of a football club, rather highlighting the hierachy of an organisation and where the 'orders' emanate from.)

To borrow the words and sentiments of Michael Wilde, Wotte has been a pivotal part of the management team for over 9 months so "new" is stretching things a tad. IMHO of course.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=219657#post219657 "....little equation for you to ponder....our friend van der waals...his friend....Tony Pulis.....D.Gorre currently our rotational reserve/first team coach (ex.reserve coach Stoke City FC)....Pulis junior (Portsmouth 0 games,Stoke 2,Torquay 3,Plymouth 5,Grimsby 9,Bristol Rovers 1,Southampton 0, 2 year contract)....Andrew Davies to Stoke City ('un-disclosed fee',now on loan at Preston North End).... " :confused:

Skacel's signed? I missed that one.

Are we playing 4-4-2 in the reserves too now?