Matthew Le God

Why are you using the Wolves figure? They are completely knocking down the stands and building them again. Saints would add an extra tier on an existing stadium. Brighton built a completely new high spec 22,500 stadium for £95m. You are suggesting adding 18,000 seats to an existing stadium will cost more.

But if it is a similar figure to what Saints would have to pay for a loan for an expansion, why are you dismissive of a comparison between the two?

What leads you to believe this? Cortese stated after Liebherr's death that the resubmitted plans for the Staplewood development are now costing three times the original amount. Where has this extra money come from then if it is as you say a predefined "pot of money"? On what do you base a 13,000 increase in capacity costing £100m? Evidence for this claim please?

Yes, they are presumptions. But pre-sumptions based on things like Cortese telling the press and fans dinners of plans for expansion to 45k+ and aims of Champions League football in conversations between him and Markus. So not exactly plucked out of the air by me.

"Only incur a £2m per year tenancy charge" You are very dismissive of a £2m fee each year. If Saints had a loan for a stadium expansion, how much do you think it would cost per year. Lets say it cost the £50m you previously mentioned and a 25 year period. Oh look, that comes to £2m a year, so in fact very similar in terms of costing.

Where do you think the money for the training ground at Staplewood is coming from? That hasn't been designed to hang about in the Championship or lower reaches of the Premier League, it has been designed on a par with some of the best in the country.

Well if West Ham have to pay a great deal for the new stadium and Saints have to pay to expand St Mary's, why can't a comparison be made?

How do you know that?

What makes you think the Liebherr's/Cortese would borrow the money? The Liebherr dynasty has a history of not having debt in business going back to Markus' father. They may have capital reserves themselves that could easily cover the cost. Pointless paying interest to a bank etc when it can be privately funded. Have you considered the Liebherr's may be in this for the long term and not looking for a quick profit? They don't exactly need the cash and this is all relatively small fry numbers to them.

West Ham if the original deal had gone through wouldn't have got the stadium for free. It was still costing them a great deal of money. Newham council for example were going to be providing a £40m loan, that would have had to be paid back along with any other costs. In any case St Mary's will be around for a lot longer than 10 years.

In the short term it might be seen as "giving them away". But what it does is creates future generations of fans that will be paying adult prices in years to come. It also allows those with families to attend games they may otherwise not have gone to due to cost (thus it is additional revenue the club wouldn't have got if the price wasn't discounted).

Real world precedent, West Ham are intending to do just this should they move to the Olympic Stadium i.e. take advantage of the extra seating by offering family discounts, school tickets etc in larger numbers than they can if the stadium is close to sold out every week in a smaller stadium like Upton Park. I'm not saying every extra seat will be discounted, but some can be.

https://twitter.com/#!/PaulHayward_gnm

Yes it is "done". I answered your question with a "no". I then turned it back to you by asking you a question as I don't believe your question is relevant. Has a waiting list for season tickets been a prerequisite for every stadium expansion in the past? If not, then it is not really particularly relevant is it?

That was buying a business when in a financial disaster. Should the club be financially secure and in the Premier League when the Liebherr's do sell up it will be worth more if the infrastructure at Staplewood and St Mary's is improved. You keep on about "waiting lists", however answer this... Has a waiting list for season tickets been a prerequisite for every stadium expansion in the past? If not, then it is not really particularly relevant is it? That doesn't mean by default those 40k won't sold. In any case more seats allow for more flexibility in pricing for season tickets, match tickets, family deals, free school offers etc etc.

Yes, CB Fry always overlooks this! Improvements to the infrastructure raise the price of their asset should they ever sell it on, so it is not lost money.

No Here is a similar question for you.... Has a waiting list for season tickets been a prerequisite for every stadium expansion in the past? If not, then it is not really particularly relevant is it? The new financial regulations don't allow for large amounts of cash from the owner to be spent on players transfers and wages. What they do allow is for as much money as you like to be spent on infrastructure. CLubs around England and Europe are looking for ways to increase revenue streams and turnover to see them through the changes, a good way to do this is to increase capacity. Hence what Wolves are doing right at the moment and other clubs have plans to do. Another way to do it is to do what Derby are doing with Pride Park Plaza, and MK Dons with the area around them and developing the site around the stadium. Done. And you edited my post to say "usual rubbish", despite it raising a number of points that in all the discussions we have had about this you have struggled to counter.

Those figures are from the least successful Premier League campaign Saints ever had. Yet they still show demand from the public to watch a poor Saints side led to an average for the season of over 30k and that only 6 league games didn't sell out. Currently only 10 teams in the Premier League average over 30k, Saints were able to do this whilst in the season of a relegation and Rupert Lowe in charge in 2004/05. It isn't on the "off chance". The two go hand in hand, a successful season leads to more demand and investment in the team along with the infrastructure also helps have a successful season and larger demand. My point was that a successful season will see a rise in demand compared to that of 2004/05. That season saw the team come bottom of the league and yet it still had 13 out of 19 games sold out and an average of over 30k for the season. 2003/04 was the season after the 8th place finish and cup final, Saints that season had an average of 31,699 which indicates most games were sold out in the year after a successful one. That was with Rupert Lowe in charge, and he didn't exactly improve the team much that year and Saints still managed 31,699 as an average for a team that came 12th in the Premier League!

Two questions... Who is Davies? Why is Ryan Dickson the current team's left back? Plus Saints didn't come 8th in 2003/04, that was in 2002/03.

It is very much rubbish, Saints had 13 sell outs from 19 home games in a season in which they came 20th, were relegated, had little investment in the team and Rupert Lowe was in charge. As I said before, imagine a successful season if an extremely poor one had 13 out of 19 games sold out!?

Rubbish, see Lighthouse's post above about a season in which Saints came 20th, with Rupert Lowe in charge and were relegated. 13 out of 19 St Mary's fixtures were sell outs that season. Imagine a successful season...!?

He is the number 9 in this match for Spurs and is referred to as Kudus.

Against 2nd tier players though.

I turn that back on you. You don't have evidence that it wouldn't be high. If you can sell 30k for 2nd and 3rd tier matches and games against smaller Premier League sides, a top tier game against some of the biggest sides in the world is far more attractive. It wouldn't be a matter of an "extra ten or few hundred" turning up if the stadium were larger than 32k. More people jump on the bandwagon in the Premier League and we already have had crowds of 30k for 2nd tier and 3rd tier games and those against lower Premier teams. I think you need to read my post again. I did not say they is no point only increasing to 38k. What I said was that if Cortese has considered a new stadium as a possibility, that shows he believes gates of much larger than 32k are possible. It would be pointless knocking down St Mary's just to build a 35k or 38k stadium. Only worth doing if it were circa 45k+. Thus even if he didn't build a new stadium, he would still have the same views for an expansion for St Mary's. I'd like you to answer post #42. I think you have said in the past you don't care about what Wolves are doing. But this is a professional sports company in the same way Cortese is running a professional sports company. Both of which have more idea than you or I.

The Kraken (and others), What evidence do you think Wolves used when they decided to go ahead with this...? Phase 1 takes capacity upto 31k Phase 2 takes capacity upto 36k Phase 3 takes capacity upto 50k Phase 1 and 2 are definitely going ahead and would have regardless of relegation last season. They believe there is a potential for phase 3 and have plans for it if required. Last season Wolves averaged 27k, they haven't had average gates of 30k+ to use as evidence since 1970. Where as Saints did as recently as 2005 and that was the last of 4 consecutive seasons of 30k+ averages and also a relegation season.