sandwichsaint

Threshers in South Norwood are already arranging for longer opening hours, every cloud and all that.

Good come back and good to see lots of your life has been like much of my life but I'm not sure that's a totally correct interpretation of what I posted? Getting a ST probably falls into one of three catergories: number 1 - pay-up! Simples, for many fans (10,OOO maybe?) an ST is one of their annual expenses, pay cash (save up!), pay on instalments, beg, steal or borrow, a ST is what they do and they will 'always' get one. Absolutely fair play to them - they can afford it, it's their money, etc. etc. These customers are the least resistant to price changes and within reason will pay what the club asks. number 3 - can't afford it, don't have one, don't want one, don't need one. These fans for whatever reason do not buy season tickets, they may well want to, but at 'any price' they will effectively be out of their orbit. Fair play to them, they are still fans, they still like to go to as many games as possible etc. etc. which leaves number 2 - somewhere in between, shall we call them 'potential ST holders' (10,000 maybe?). These fans, for any number of reasons, have held STs on and off, or even, God forbid, have NEVER had a season ticket ever (much like yourself in your example and myself in my post). Where people's propensity to buy is marginal it could be affected by many factors of which 'price' is only one; distance to travel, ease of travel, time available, potential number of games available for, etc. all need to be factored into the equation, and no doubt for some fans 'winning' and 'success' are also a big draw. For myself, I loved last season, I like spending the time with my son, I am at a stage of life where I can afford it, I enjoy the vibe around the club, and most importantly I have free-ed up a lot of my Saturday afternoons that were previously spoken for (whisper it, the h-word, hockey). If I put all that in the mix my own personal price-point/VFM index comes out at somewhere around the 300 mark, my own choice, my own price point, and one that is totally unique to me; equally the club are fully entitled to ask 400. Result is I walk away and both of us are in theory 'happy' at that outcome (I suspect both of us are actually 'unhappy' at that outcome). The thrust of my post was 'what was the club doing to attract these 10000 potential/marginal ST holders?'; fans that Leeds, Charlton and Norwich attract and keep? My subjective answer and from my own point of view is 'very little', you may not agree, you may not be particualry bothered, either way that's your choice. I don't have a problen with any of the above, or your counter arguements, my only issue is where you assume I was speaking for you or for anybody else! Nowhere in my post did I express anything other than my own personal opinion. My personal opinion was, and remains, that existing STs (of whom I have never been one and don't profess to speak for) were treated very shabbily by the club between March and June, they are not being actively encouraged to renew, and the club is not actively persuing a strategy to build on last year's feelgood factor and move to an established fan base of 20k ST holders (which I feel is eminently possible from the position we are in). Hope that clears it up a bit, I've always enjoyed reading your posts and have often agreed with you (and vice-verca IIRC) during the Lowe times - agree this season 'should be one of the best', enjoy it , I will.

Genuinely don't understand your attitude (on lots of things on here to be honest). Why are your ambitions limited to the club selling 12k STs? Leeds, Charlton, Norwich all sell in the high teens (Norwich into the 20's), what's so different with us? Wouldn't you like to see us pricing and marketing our ST offer so as to maximise ST sales and establish a core of 20k committed supporters? And pricing our walk-up to fill between 5 and 10k of the remaining seats for as many games as possible? I think there is a massive boost both to the team and to the 'match day' experience/the 'feel good' factor to play to a ground that is 90% full than to play in a ground that is half empty. You strike me as being very happy to pay the price you can afford which is your choice, but I would regard that price in my circumstances as not providing VFM, my choice. Reading betwen the lines you will gladly pay X pounds and don't much care whether you are sat in a crowd of 15k, 20k, 25k, 30k, (on your model the crowds will never come back till we are in the Prem - not true if you look at Norwich/Leeds/Charlton) again your choice but unless NC has got his sums bang on and AP delivers (both are very possible), you run the very real risk of smaller crowds and reduced revenue? It seems such a shame that last year's feelgood factor and our aniversary season should start on this downbeat note; obviously for you it's not a problem but I get the feeling that for a some people (including me) it is. Anyway, keep up the good work, and let's all keep supporting Saints in our own individual ways!

Have to agree that this appears to be a massive OG by the club. I seriously expected us to sell 20k STs this season; despite watching Saints for near on 40 years I have never ever had a ST due to a combination of finanance/family/location. Last year I attended 10 home and 10 aways and was this season seriously considering that Iwas in a position to buy what would have been my first ever STs for both my self and my son. Despite the combination of the distance to travel and the fact that I could only probably make 15 home games I would have considered 300 'reasonable' for a cheap seat to watch 3rd division football, to 'belong to the family', to guarantee tickets for cup games etc. And if I'd bought those tickets this year, I would in all probability have renewed them on into the future. Considering the add-ons of travel/food/beer/parking are probably anything up to 75 quid a game for the two of us it would also have been considerably easier to get it past my financial manager (Mrs Sandwich) on a 6 month interest free payment scheme rather than ripping north of 600 quid out of my family budget right in the middle of holiday/MOT/car insurance renewal time. Needless to say I won't be buying one on 'principle'; the club have treated their existing STs absolutely abysmally since the end of the season, no information released, very limited window to buy at discount, no reminders and virtually no publicity, and very limited incentive for 'new' STs to join - all covering up increased prices (for what is essentially the same product). The other side of this is that regular match-day punters (like me!) have been mugged with both price rises and booking taxes. Not everybody has a ST (for a multitude of very valid reasons) but literally thousands of people watch between 1 and say 12 games a season, all these will be paying more (for the same product). What other firms are hiking their prices 10%-20% in a recession and alienating a proportion of their existing customer base? Have to say Mr Cortese is either very brave or very foolish - this has the potential to really come back and bite him. FROM 3 months ago looking forward to getting my first ever pair of ST's and turning my 10 homes and 10 aways into 15 homes and 5 aways, I'm now in a position where I am quite likely to do 5 homes and 15 aways! Can we fit the sylables of 'Nicola Cortese - customer service genius' into the the Paul Wotton chant?

One step at a time eh boys? Some people's 'next level' seems to have become rather inflated lately! For those that are thinking 'Champions League' aren't you getting a tinsey little bit ahead of yourselves? It's almost as though promotion from this league (auto or play-offs) is already assured (I'm as confident as the next person but 'nothing' is assured), then on into the CCC (that shouldn't detain us for more than two years at most. How many teams have gone from lge 3 to lge 1 in fewer than three seasons? In the history of the game?). For us though, it's all a walk in the park; first year in the Prem finish around 11th, then maybe 8th, then up to the top 6, easy as, what could be more straightforward? If all that comes to pass then what says we can't do any of that while staying at, a possibly enlarged, SMS? We have tons of spare capacity and the owners will certainly not be shy about pricing it to the max; would they rather have regular gates of 30k with 22k ST's at 500 pound a pop and match day prices of 38-45 quid; or would they rather be chasing to try to fill a stadium of 50k on a wet Tuesday with 30k ST holders at 400 a piece and match day pricing of 30-35 quid a go? Unless we can re-invent the financial rules of football there is no way we can combine 'self sufficiency' with sufficient funds to buy into what by that time will be a 'european super-league' (effectively it already is now). Saints current model is very attractive; buy the best players we can afford, invest in first class facilities off the pitch, aggressively rebuild our academy, trade on our large and loyal support by pushing prces to the max - this model will succeeed at Div 3 level. With a bit of luck and continued astute management it could take us all the way back to another 27(?)years unbroken in the top flight. Do we then want to arrive back in the top flight burdened by £1 000 000s of pounds worth of debt? And reliant on high prices / high crowds to take us further? Is there really, no REALLY, a pent up demand from 30k people to pay 500-600 for STs to watch in all likelihood mid-table Prem lge football? I would much rather they priced STs and match day admission to get crowds of 30k at SMS inwhatever league we are in and continue 'the Saints family' into another generation. I count myself incredibly lucky to have been born as a fourth generation Saints fan (that makes my boys both 5th generation) and for me the club surviving and thriving and being accessible to as many people, both local and exiled, as often as possible is every bit as attractive as winning the Champions Lge. Maybe it's just an age thing (I'm mid-40s) but I do PMSL at comments above that SMS 'is ten years old' and 'showing it's age'; I guess when I started watching football pretty much all grounds were between 50 and 75 years old, and grounds of 10 years old were alomost non-existent. Saints to stay at SMS for the next 50 years, 40 of those in the top flight, 10 seasons of European football, and to win the League Cup twice and the FA Cup once - that's an agenda that I could support but a money-chase into a souless out-of-town greenfield site? Souless? It will have it's own Franky and Benny's, and a cinema,and a bowling alley, and at least three theme pubs. Grumpy old man alert but I'm just not buying it!

Thicko alert! Where are the 'advanced options' (?), sorry, looked all over but they appear to be well hidden on mine (told you I was thick).

Carp draw and a bit of a 'hiding to nothing' for us. They will be up for it, the cup's a great leveller, etc etc. I don't see this comp as a priority although I would expect AP to play his strongest side at this stage of the season. Banana skin written all over it! Should get 20k if tickets are priced properly (max £15 for me to travel 300 miles mid-week to watch fairly non-descript opposition in a semi-meaningless game).

Great minds! Trying to get my head around it all and (still) reeling from the oceans of white space! Didn't the 'old' site have some sort of preference ('office?') that toned things down somewhat? No way am I going to be easily able to disguise this at work... sorry, but not growing on me at all yet!!

‘Cash on the Slash will be ‘no problem’ for Peru-dent Buyers’ or simply ‘Gotcha!’ Saints fans were yesterday reeling from what many saw as yet another Cortese –inspired PR disaster when the new anniversary shirt was revealed. Despite months of frantic speculation fans were stunned to see the new shirt in what the club proudly described as ‘traditional stripes’; fans suspicions were aroused when the OS carried only monochrome pictures of the new shirt. They had also been expecting a shirt without a sponsor and were shocked to see the new shirt also includes an extra-large plug for the club’s new finance partner ‘Z E B R A’. A clearly delighted NC burbled, ‘The shirt combines the best of our great tradition, paying homage to both ‘the stripes’ and to our long tradition of easy-pay finance schemes, and priced at only 59.95 clearly signals out intent to get back to the highest levels of revenue streams as soon as possible. I think black and white stripes is absolutely the future and I’m sure most fans will pay up and embrace this change’. Fans-of-everything-the-club-does were quick to welcome the change and their spokesperson H Clappy was fulsome in his praise of both NC and the club, ‘We used to play at the Antelope ground so Zebra provides clear continuity in our identity, personally I think as NC has also said those attached to the red and white are living in the past. I’m just glad we’ve got our club back.’ Self-styled fans spokes-person SRR was apoplectic with lager, ‘Frankly this sums up all that is wrong with the club. We might have the strongest squad, the best manager, and the best support in our Division; we might even be in a position to win a League for the first time in 50 years but frankly that counts for little with the majority of fans like me. As a protest I will mainly attend the first half of some away games and I expect at least several other fans to join me in a Cash-on-the-Lash protest.’

Though if IRC they had Monday draws right through our run to Cardiff? Loved the old-school Monday draws - one of my most vivid memories of being at school is being on the field at Hamble school with a tranny (ooh-er missus) and hearing 'Manchester United' 'will play' 'Derby County', cue us all going mental as we knew we had pulled the Palace plum in the semi's. Happy days. Things we miss about Saints? Black shorts with two red stripes down the sides. The chocolate boxes. My first unaccompanied games and standing on bits of the Milton that our dad would never have allowed us on. Taking the floating bridge to games. A floodlit game at the Dell, just how did they get the grass so green and the lines so white?

Let's hope we don't start with Seabourne, he would be a serious weak link in that line-up.

Tell me this isn't a typo of 'OB checking your plums'? (do tell, I've never heard or seen this before anywhere).

The club's really not thinking big enough on these alternative revenue streams. Renting out the stadium for a mass mow-in - GBP 1000 (petrol extra) Sponsor your own seat - only £200 (per game) to display a small commercial logo (max size 100mm x 25mm) on your own rented seat Start flogging chips on the concourse at 1.50 a go and charge an extra (optional) 25p for the salt and vinegar (why should one chip muncher subside another's condiment habits?) Open the stadium on non-match days for extra revenue; get the giant screens to display pictures of: Chairman Mao (the other one), Rupert Lowe, Nick Clegg, Ashley Cole, Cortese, MLT, Lucy Pinder, Craig David, Stu Romsey Saint, Ricky Lambert etc. The crowd can become emotionally excited as their favourites are displayed and then throw coins at large targets in the shape of grabbing hands when their enemies appear. An absolute steal at only 5 pound admission (plus 7 pound booking fee). You read it here first.

What was David Peach's goals per game - must be somewhere around the 30 / 300 mark ??

Never mind the quality, feel the shirt-sales. I never realised there was quite so much global potential untapped; it would be remiss of us not to make a big-name signing from the Spratley Islands some time this summer. (Is this really a country or a well-inserted WU?)

Challengers: Southampton Sheffield Wednesday *Millwall Colchester United Playoff contenders: Huddersfield Town *Swindon Town Brighton Brentford ... my outside bet to do well Top half Walsall Charlton Athletic Bristol Rovers Notts County Bottom half Peterborough Utd Plymouth Argyle MK Dons ... outside bet to go down, appear to be in disarray at the moment Carlisle United Yeovil Town Leyton Orient Exeter City Hartlepool United Favourites for the drop: Oldham Athletic Tranmere Rovers Bournemouth Rochdale Dagenham or Aldershot or Morecambe or Rotherham

How do you work that out then? Surman played right across our midfield at various times including plenty of games at right mid, he also did a very passable impersonation of a left back on several occaisions towards the end of his time with us - it's not a giant leap of faith is it to deduce that he would do a better job at RB than any of the three we currently consider our RBs? Far better player than any of those three.

Surman would **** all over Semi/Murty/LJ at RB, FACT!

So blocks 1-2-3 will be open for ST sales and matchday sales again?

Posted last week - it really shouldn't affect us. If we are serious about the top two then which three of these four we play should be irrelevent. Charlton; I have Charlton ST mates and with the demise of Gillingham it's once again my nearest game; always a decent awayday - keep 'em down! Huddersfield; never been there, diary permitting quite fancy this one next year. They tailed-off quite badly this year and were only helped into the play-offs by Millwall's no-show at their place. Thrashed at our place - they haven't done enough for me to deserve promotion - keep 'em down! Swindon: small team who punched well above their weight this season, excellent manager. For however poor we were that day I thought they still looked decent at their place and were also v good at St Marys. Hopefully they will have to sell at least one of the strikers and we can go down there next season and right a few wrongs - keep 'em down! Millwall; no mark club and one of the very worst away days I've ever been to (decent view though)! Fair play to Jackett who has got a very average bunch of players performing well above the sum of their individual parts. If they stay down and keep him they would be probably be the biggest single threat to us next year and they present unattractive opposition at home and away - let 'em go up and good riddance (hopefully we could pass them and P going the other way at the end of the season).

Plans to build new 60,000 stadium rubbished by several forum members as 'nowhere near big enough' ('I just wish this club would show some ambition for once, FFS') Away fans, coming soon to a block near you (allegedly). No way Saints will sell anywhere near 35k for JPT at Wembley ('tickets will be easy to come by' 'everybody that wants one will get one') Saints shouldn't even try to win the first round/second round/semi final/regional final (of the JPT), 'I won't be going even if we get through and I can't see more than 25k trekking up to London on a Sunday for a mickey-mouse final' Our pies and beer are the worst in the whole of the football league, FACT. Lowe was too tight to install undersoil heating / undersoil heating wasn't deemed necessary due to the stadium location / undersoil pipes were installed but Lowe 'never bothered' to have them connected. SMS is in a fantastic, pub-walking, traditional city centre location / SMS is siuated in a slum and suffers from intractable traffic problems. There is no media-worthy event at the football club that can't be made worse by a few choice words from self appointed uber-fan Nick Illingsworth (and where did all the Saints trust members vanish to?) The new home shirt will definitely have some red and some white somewhere on it and will be loved by 50% of the fan base and rejected by the other 50%. And finally .... WE'LL WALK THIS LEAGUE NEXT YEAR!

****ed up, left field selection Niemi Telfer Fonte Paul Williams Bridge Walcott Oakley Guthrie Bale Lambert Pahars Anybody want a game? That team would win CCC, and give an account in the Prem Honorable mentions: kelvin/killer/claus/beatts/crouch (that'll do for the bench!)

Don't knock it; what some supporters would recognise as a caravan forecourt is in fact another set of supporters' estate agent. LOL at the pictures! I thought football hoolies were up there with the coolest and hippest things around? PMSL at their 'smart casual' wear. The majority of this lot look like the Adams family after a smash and grab raid at a Matalan clearance sale, very third division; I thought we were Premier League in these matters?

Best Southend Leeds Brentford Worst Colchester Millwall (that's the one single game for me where our play-off place went down the drain)

Les Read = Curbishley?