sandwichsaint

WORD! Look no further than Charlton in the second relegation season - reasonably attractive, local-ish opposition - a very real 6 pointer to stay in the CCC - Saints plunged into admin and crisis - the exit-of-shame for the most hated man in our history - a fire sale of tickets to get cash in (£15 a pop if I remember rightly) = we must surely have had 31k and a further 5k locked out for what was one of the most crucial games in our history? Er, no, actually we had around 27k that day - no sign at all of the missing 20k uber fans in our hour of need.... I'm not wanting to wee on anybody's parade; I love SMS but I'm not blind to the right new stadium in the right location (think Stadium of Light - awesome). I'm just in no rush to take on upwards of £80m new funding on the speculative gamble that we can get '50k for half our Premiership fixtures' (above) - I just don't think we can. I think we can be a solid top-half of the Prem at SMS and that is probably a realistic 6-7 year target. Whatever people's opinions please can we have no more 'we-sold-out-every-game-in-the -Prem' comments ... WE DIDN'T! And LOL at those who want to build a new stadium 'close to the pitch' - that ain't ever gonna happen - UEFA and FIFA regs and our own H and S considerations mean that the apron is there for a reason, tell me different but has any 'new' stadium ever been built 'close to the pitch'?

3 Lord Mandelson 6 Frank Lampard HTH

http://www.footballeconomy.com/archive/archive_2005_may_05.htm "One of four teams will escape relegation from the Premiership next Sunday, but the least likely candidates for survival are Southampton. Given that the other candidates have recent experience of the Championship, the Saints are the club least well equipped to cope with the £12m drop in income after parachute payments. Southampton have not been out of the top division since 1978. The club is bearing a debt of £22.7m because of the move to St.Mary's Stadium. The loan is secured against future season ticket sales and it is understood that the club has to pay a premium above base rate if they are relegated to compensate for the likely drop in sales. Even in the Premiership, Southampton have seen their average attendance figure slip from 31,704 to 29,862. Games against the likes of Crewe and Watford are unlikely to attract large crowds. Commercial income was already falling this season and operating costs are high. Getting out of the Championship is always tough, as West Ham have found, but the Saints may find it particularly difficult." Can we put to bed the myth that Saints sold out 'every game in the Prem'? The above clearly shows we 'lost' 1800 fans somewhere between mid-table in the Prem and the year we went down - no schitt Sherlock? - people will only watch a 'winning team' and where's the guarantee of that? I clearly remember a dire 0-0 v Charlton in the Prem in our second or third season at SMS which attracted a then record lowe crowd to SMS of 26k (or might even have been 24k?). Not sure our core support is anywhere near what some seem to imagine it is - you don't have to go back too far to Burley Tuesdays when we had barely 16k v the likes of Colchester in the CCC. Do people really want to swap what we've got now for ground-sharing with 25k nu-plastics, paying top-dollar for seats, and watching a bunch of ageing prima-donna playboys 'gelling' their way into mid-table Prem obscurity? 45,000 for Saints v Blackburn? Pull the other one.... Now if we were to look outwards and grow our brand a little; we could quite conceivably control the whole southern triangle / M3 corridor from our new super-stadium sited just south of Basingstoke (lovely road and rail access) - 20k from the now-defunct 'Saints', 10k from third division (at best) Pompey, 10k from those that no longer watch the EPL (sic) at Reading, 5k from the Surrey commuter belt - that makes 45k watching the franchised 'Southern Saints' battling it out for a top 6-8 prem league place. That's not for me ... The other obvious, and bigger, drawback - who's going to score the final goal at SMS? Lambert v Bolton doesn't quite have the same symetry as MLT v Arsenal and Saints will never win the Prem; last game of the season and needing one point to win it they would go to already-relegated Wolves on the back of a nine game winning streak and lose 0-2 - it's what Saints do!

I think they have already done this in a meaningless Champs Lge dead rubber involving one of the Italian teams (and if they didn't actually do it then they certainly got very near to doing it, eg max 1 or 2 pounds for tickets).

I have very mixed feelings about 'multi-ball' (nothing else really doctor, just multi-ball). It's great if you can play it, the ref can play it, the ball boys are sorted, and the crowd do their part - it's pretty pants when any one of these components falls down. I did have a small moment during the Pompey game when I remarked that the game was so much better without using multi-play. Obviously other factors were in play as well (derby, Prem oppo, big atmos etc. etc.) but I did think it was a much better to game to watch with the natural rhythm and flow and more shape and structure, and the occaisional pause for breath and for both teams to re-adjust and start a new phase of play. I'm not against it per-se (hence my 'mixed feelings') but I do think sometimes multi-ball just adds to the hurly-burly at this level and as alluded to above, to the crowd's (and the ref's!) frustration. In an Alan Partridge headmaster stylee, that clot who threw the ball on the pitch on Saturday placed the referee in a very invidious position!

Great night and what a side AP is building - plain to see last night that the additions of Puncheon (first time I've seen him live) and Barnard have taken us to another level. We look far better balanced last night with both Morgan and Hammond in good order in centre mid and an awesome front four, Lambert really looks to have upped his game and fitness levels since the Pompey game, he looks like he now believes he can play at a higher level - let's hope it's with Saints! KD 7 - that's about the number of times he touched it. JO 7 - limited defensively and might find both Leeds and Swindon looking to give him a bit of a torrid time. RJ 8 - awesome, again. Fonts 8 - quality player, looks like he's got another two gears from the level he is playing now. DH 8.5 - we really missed him, it's no coincidence he was one of the players missing during our mini-slump. Fantastic show last night, if he could improve his final ball he would be even better! JP 10! - first sight of him and v. impressed! He seems the 'complete player' as an attacking midfielder and is potentially the best in that position we have had for any number of seasons. DH 8 - that's more like the DH I remember from his first 6 or 8 games, excellent tonight and a really good relationship with Fonte, seemed Fonte had licence to step out the back 4 when we had the ball and for Hammo to sit and hold. Worked really well, great defensive work and also found time to chip in with a goal. MS 10 - different class last night, his best game in a Saints shirt? AL 9 - another totally committed performance, can not believe how quickly he has matured physical-wise. if he keeps this up and he will end up as a genuine centre-mid, work on his goal scoring and he could become our very own Frank Lampard! RL 9 - another top performance, he looked fresh and sharp and with a real appetite. Trade mark finish with a header big Ron would have been proud to put his name on. LB 9 - a performance to put any doubters firmly in their place. Determined, strong, intelligent, aware, aggressive; he gave it the full monty tonight and looked the perfect foil for Ricky. I posted after the Brentford game, 'something has got to happen to turn this side into a Leeds or a Norwich'; I think that something could just be Jason Puncheon. No more hoofball in away games! Keep Morgan, Lambert, Lallana and AP in the summer and we can start to think of being next year's Champs - no more AP out noises from NC - the fans gave their verdict last night and NC would be mad to change now. AP has spent their money phenomenally well and we are building real momentum on and off the pitch - way to go AP!

Agree with those that say it's down to blending (gelling!) a teamtogether. We have certainly got some good players at this time but not sure how many would survive a promotion? If we went up we would presumably be aiming for the top six from the off rather than mid-table consolidation? Is the current side a top 6 Ccc side? It's barely a top six side in this league ( for a number of reasons). IFwe went up and AP was offerred 4-5 new players who would be sure of keeping their place? Davis FOnte Morgan Llalana Puncheon LAmbert IMHO are well up to it, I Rate WAigo, and maybe squad players BArt HAmmond BArnard?

That view finder is well trippy; I ended up with the sky spinning wildly and my head wedged under a seat: Stu Romsey eat your heart out!

For THE game, tomoz v Huddersfield, I am in Block 36 BB For that other game ... I'm in with all this morning's other desperadoes and reprobates ... 528 - 531 ... I shall be bringing my attitude and my volume, make sure you all bring your's too. COYRs

After Saturday's shenanigans does anybody still think it's a good idea to put the away fans at the other end of the stadium? Not sure about expansion, can't see it being necessary until we are established in the top half of the Prem (it will be a minimum 6-7 years till we can say that?) Not sure even then there is the guaranteed demand over a consistent period of time to ever make it economically viable - stand by for big ticket price increases if we ever did do it! Nothing worse than seeing crowds of 15k rattling round in a half-full SMS, I'd hate to see a situation where we ever went back to having crowds of 15k but rattling around in a 40000 seater stadium.

3 from snowy Sandwich and my youngest is down from Loughborough. We will have done getting on for nearly 2000 Saints miles (that's like airmiles but without the freebies) since just before Xmas. Leeds A, Col U A, Exeter H, Millwall A, Brentford A, MK H, P'mouth H.... it's costing me a small fortune!

OP:If we win the JPT ..... WILL WE HAVE AN OPEN-TOP BUS PARADE?

I said something similar further back up this post. Lets get the away fans from the first angled block in the Northam (45?46?) round that corner and on into block 1 (and at the moment we'd only have to sell block 1 three or four times a year). Saints fans can then spread right across the Northam end and double up on the oppo from the Block 2 side. I think people are making far too much of the arguments about: the size and shape of the concourses / the entry points / the corporate box thing; if this is a proper '5 year plan' to get us back in the Prem then surely these things can at least in part be re-engineered at a relatively modest cost if that provides a long-term re-structuring of the arrangements? I can't see that anyone has made the case for moving them to the Chapel end? Do we know as any sort of a 'fact' that the police will even allow away fans at that end of the stadium? What we can almost certainly surmise is that if the away fans do go to the Chapel end then a significant number of the current Blocks 40-42 and 1-3 will follow them down there, with a contra movement of a range of others including ‘families’ going the other way; plus ca change? We will just reverse the existing layout, with potentially more problems outside on the concourse as the away fans will potentially use both sides of the stadium for entry and exit (remembering that this change ought to be future proof and hopefully in the not too distant future we will be accommodating Premier-size away allocations). What we do know from last night is that we emphatically DO have 6000 fans (of a very mixed demographic) who will stand and sing their hearts out if the team on the pitch give them reason to, let’s get the ground adapted asap, poke the away fans into a corner, and bring it on! Last night, the birth of the Southampton Kop; Wem-ber-ley, Wem-ber-ley!

What a funny thing to say: Murty has played what, 6-7 games this season? I think I'm right in saying Jaidi and Fonte haven't yet played together? Harding has been our best left back by some distance. This is where too many fans get it soooo wrong, it's not all about lobbing names on a piece of paper and expecting the 'team' to go out and perform, it's not a computer game! A proper back 4 works together as a unit (and prob ought to be extended to include the GK and call it a back 5). On the basis of who's played together and who combines well our 'best' back 5 this season has probably been: Bart / James / Perry / Jaidi / Harding. (and if you play Fonte, which is understandable, then you are effectively starting again in terms of a back 4 and a back 5) PS The Jury should have no problem in deciding between Otsemobor and Murty ... neither (for different reasons) are what is required and neither offer anything more than a short-term fix. I fully expect us to start next season with a new 'proper' right back. If LJ is to play every game then I would prefer it to be at RB rather than CM.

I've just bought this morning one for my lad who is coming down from L'boro uni for the game .... they were down to singles behind the goal in the Chapel and bits and pieces in the Itchen/Chapel corner. From what I could make out there is zip available in Northam/Kingsland/Itchen ... Looks like it could sell out today / this evening?

... Jaidi we all knew would not be up to two games a week ..... Is this statement: urban myth, recieved wisdom, or 'fact'? Has it ever been 'officially' said that he can't play two games a week? FYI, Jaidi actually played Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday on three seperate occaisions earlier in the season.

Thanks to whoever posted this up! I've been re-dialing solidy on 0800 from 8.25 to 11.00, not a peep. Second time the 01271 rung ... just hold it (I held for 6 mins...) then ... straight in (I doubled up on Swindon). GET IN!!!

Is the box office likely to be open on Saturday this weekend? Am I right in assuming we won't sell out by Saturday lunchtime? I have to drop two peeps at Twickers on Saturday lunchtime and it would be as easy to whip down the M3 on Sat early afternoon as to spend most of Thu and Fri queuing on the phones. ( I can't use the online facility, my account has never worked on there, it conflicts with an old email address I once used for mega store online shopping, sad but true). Loving this from the official site: box office hours, Mon-Fri 9.00 till 5.00, Saturdays - currently closed until match and season tickets are on sale. (checked the posted date - posted on Sun 31st May 2009) Why, oh why, oh why is the OS such a pile of tripe when it comes to ticket info and sales? http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/TicketNews/0,,10280~1677654,00.html

I'm not convinced the away fans can't move into Blocks 1-2-3, and then from their backwards into blocks 45-44 (or whatever they are numbered, effectively where they are now) for cup games. Taken that the away fans at the moment are in the most 'logical' place: Pro's to this location: it's the second best logistical position in terms of ticket office/away coaches/ segregation after the game (especially if they re-made the access so away fans continued to enter from the right hand side of the ticket office) we will gain a whole width for our own 'kop end' home fans won't be split following the away fans to a different part of the ground away fans will be effectively much less 'vocal' sideways (corner-ways?)on than end-on the away team won't ever 'attack' their own fans end ... they won't have an end as such Anti's away fans would be nearer to the corporates (so what?), either net out the back four rows by those first couple of boxes or permanently change the layout to keep them out of reach (with some clever walling they could prob keep them out of sight too if that's what they want) current Block 1-2-3 stalwarts ejoy the pincer effect against the away fans - then move down to the new front line at Block 4 or 5 or wherever it ends up - and carry on from there can't see any more downsides ...... Memo to the club moving the away fans to the Kingsland/Northam corner would be great in the ground but would be a a logistical nightmare outside, doubt the police would approve it anyway moving the away fans to the 'other end' would attract a significant proportion of our more vocal Northam and Itchen North supporters down their end (and leave us with a watered down Northam/Chapel as our Kop) In the absence of the above as an option I would vote to leave them where they are.

DAVIS JAMES FONTE JAIDI HARDING HAMMOND WAIGO PUNCHEON MS LALLANA LAMBERT Bart Perry Mills Connelly Barnard Antonio That side is way too good for L1! Neither Otsemobor or Seaborne are currently in our best 17 players!

Duck Off? Love to see that one again.

I've slept at the box office, complete with newspapers, sleeping bag and flask. Had to get tkts for Derby home and away, can't remember how it came about but they went to general sale (probably after selling 2 per ST holder or some such), drove down on the Thu pm at 7-00, camped out at the ground from 10-00 Thu night, grabbed tickets at 9-00(?) the next day - back in work for 12-00 Friday - then drove back down to Soton the next day for the Saturday lunchtime kick off, and then to the away leg on the following Tue(?). A few Saints miles that week! Also slept out overnight at the Dell for '76 semi tickets; considering that there were only 4 of us that slept out properly for the Derby game and they were all younger than me I could quite possibly be the 'only' person who has slept out for tickets at both the Dell and at SMS. I assume that nobody has slept over for any other SMS games?

Excellent, at the 'club's discretion' I'd like to nominate my 'linked purchase' to: Swindon, Leeds, Colchester, Millwall, Brentford, and Charlton all away, and Gillingham, Exeter, Wycombe, Brighton and MK home. Is this what they mean? (I'm sure it's not so I've go to buy a ticket for a game I can't go to!) Hopefully I will be able to link it to an upcoming midweek (eg Swindon or H'pool). Why do they always **** about .... what's so hard about saying 'ST's 1 each, then 1 each for anybody with 5 games against their number?'

Frustrating night all round; another dodgy selection (Otsemobor over Thomas? Seaborne over Jaidi? No MS?) and in all honesty a pretty dodgy performance from the team. We started off nice and bright and took a deserved early lead but never looked comfortable in midfield and conceded lots of space and possession from the time James went off. We were particularly poor down the r/hand side with Antonio and Otsemobor all at sea against their pace and movement. Fortunately the combined efforts of Fonte (class) Seaborne (much better than last time) and DAVIS(!) was enough to keep us in front till half time, and we also had our share of chances and half chances, mainly playing on the break. We could, probably should, have been 2-0 at half time and we may well have got the 3 points. Second half was a completely different story; Brentford stepped up and Saints shrank back into their collective shells; we just stopped playing all over the pitch and conceded pretty much every 50/50 and second ball for the whole of the 45. KD to thank for keeping it respectable as Brentford had way too much pace, movement and desire for our lot. Rubbish hoof ball from the whole of the back 4 (including Fonte who was launching up-and-unders in the first half too) which only brought pressure straight back on us. You have to question AP’s tactics when you see players like Lambert and Morgan blindly hitting it first time from the centre circle in the vague direction of the corner flag, second half we could have moved 5 miles down the road and played it at Twickenham. Isn’t the first thing you coach 9 year olds ‘take a touch’ and ‘take two’? Hopeless football; for the first time last night the thought crossed my mind that we might not actually walk out of this league next season either … something has to change to turn this team into a Leeds or a Norwich… I’ve LOL’ed all season at those who say this team would be in the top half of the CCC… on last night’s form we would struggle to make the top half of this league. Things we learnt (or as it Saints, things we never learn ….) We defend too deep We don’t retain the ball from the back or midfield We have no real pace (bar Antonio) throughout the team Otsemobor is not an option at RB, really poor player MS is an attacking midfielder in a 4-5-1 Wotton does a job in a 4-5-1 but can’t play in a 4-4-2 Lallana can’t play anywhere near as effectively in 4-4-2 and is a much better player in a 4-5-1 Route one to Lambert has been sussed by other teams, he looks as bored with it as we do. Waigo is a decent player at this level and with a good goal scoring record, why can’t he get near the team at the moment? Davis 10! Outstanding individual performance Otsemobor 3 Hope he can turn it around but don’t hold your breath; limited defensively and creates nothing going forward Fonte 8 Class player but got caught up in the hoof-ball as much as anyone else (presumably playing to orders) Seaborne 7 Much better than last time but struggles in the air at times for a big fellow (just what we need in this league – a non-heading centre back)… Jaidi Mills 6 Started brightly but faded with the rest of the team …. Harding Antonio 7 Lively and committed, wish people would get off his case a bit; he’s doing the job he’s asked to do and making a decent go of it. He’s got good pace, a decent shot and runs at defenders ….. would be an ideal sub at this level, not sure why he’s getting a regular 80 mins-plus over Papa? James got stuck in and scored a really good goal, missed him when he went off. Wotton 5 I’ve stuck up for him in the past and as ever you couldn’t fault his effort but not his best game, all hoof and Brentford easily by-passed him in midfield, shouldn’t ever be asked to play in a 4, just not up to it physically or technically. Morgan 4 Back to his inconsistent worst after showing some decent form in the last couple of months. Ineffective in defence and attack and too often hoofed it when he did get it. If we are going to go a rigid 4-4-2 and play hoofball not sure he is the player for us or we are the club for him (which is a great pity both ways round). Lallana 4 Lively link up in the first 20 minutes, can’t fault his effort beyond that but nil impact from there on. What a waste of a talented player, let’s get him in the middle in a 5 and get him on the ball every opportunity we get. Barnard 7 My first sight (in a Saints shirt) and very promising he looked. Worked hard, decent movement and very tidy link up; did fantastic to beat both centre halves then fluffed a really straightfd chance (he only had to tuck it in the near post but had too much time and changed his mind). Will score loads of goals at this level. Lambert 5 something not quite right, too often he just looks like he’s going through the motions rather than he wants to be out there playing and he wants to be playing for us. Could be tiredness (I don’t think it is), more likely he is completely demoralised having to chase lost causes for 90 minutes and playing in a team that creates very few scoring opportunities, worrying. Draw probably a fair result, we should have gone 2 ahead in the first half and Barnard’s miss for 2-0 was the turning point; KD saved it from being a rout in the second half. Fans watch; good numbers and lively atmosphere but do we have to sing quite so many P. songs? We sing far more songs about them than we ever do about us; it must have been totally bewildering for the home fans and must make us seem rather OBSESSED and INSECURE (which hopefully most of us aren’t).

Apparently not ... my mate tried to do this yesterday evening (from Devon) ... and was told not possible... 'Brentford don't offer this facility' ... whatever that means?