Arizona

Would have laughed my a*se off if Nelson had crashed in such a way that it DIDN'T bring out the safety car.

I posted that in 2002, I've got a bit of a slow conection. Anyway, you know what I mean.

What's our record like at Elland Road and SJP? I can't be arsed to check, but Newcastle and Leeds have pushed Liverpool and Chelsea for the CL spots in recent years.

If you want to divide his form into purple patches and droughts then: 13 starts - 12 goals 12 starts - 0 goals 8 starts - 7 goals 14 starts - 0 goals These "blips" add up to 45% of the games he has started for Saints. And if we're going to jump on his back for only getting one shot on target, then what about Wotton, Schneiderlin, Mills, Mellis, Holmes, Harding, Murty, Hammond and Thomson for not getting ANY assists? Schneiderlin especially who has yet to register and assist or goals in 32 starts for Saints. Anyway, I'm well and truly bored of this argument. You are clearly never going to admit he is anything but sh*te. Over and out.

I hate that arguement for two reasons. a) CCC football isn't the punching, kicking, headbutting, karate-chopping free for all that some people seem to think it is. Yes there is a physical aspect but the rules are still the same. The worst incident I remember with Theo was Marlon Broomes jumping in elbow first in a game against Stoke at SMS. You can't honnestly say that never happens in the Prem. b) If it's all about training with great players, why do top Prem teams send their young players on loan? What is Jacob Mellis doing playing L1 football when he could be training with Lampard and Essien every day.

Why does it not surprise me that you have managed to miss the point entirely? You can't just chop bits out of a players form book because it doesn't suit your oppinion of him. I take into account ALL the games a player plays in hence I have a more balanced oppinion. Here's Saga's Saints career in numbers: 2006/7 11 starts 2 subs - 10 goals 2007/8 15 starts, 17 subs - 3 goals 2008/9 14 starts, 5 subs - 6 goals 2009/10 4 starts, 1 sub - 0 goals Overall that is 19 goals in 44 starts. Just shy of a goal every 2 starts. In anticipation of you pointing out I've ignored sub appearances: a) I haven't, it's 19 in 69 appearances, 1 in 3.5 which is in itself not too shabby. b) A lot of those sub appearances were Burley sending him on in the second minute of injury time for no apparent reason. I'm sure if I could be a*sed I could find 10 sub appearances which add up to less than 90 minutes. To call these appearances "a game" is stretching the truth a fair bit. I don't think Saga is all that and I know he is inconsistent, but f**k me lets not rewrite history as an excuse to scapegoat him.

Oh, it's blatently obvious WHY he left, I just don't think it was the right decision. Regular CCC football has to be better than not playing at all.

Depends how current you want the form to be. Since Saga returned from Aalborg he has been our joint top scorer, the highest from open play. Based on our last game, Lambert will score 90 goals this season and Saints will win the league with 100 odd points.

I do think Theo left too early. He should at least have stayed until the end of the season IMO. He wasn't ready for the Prem and after he joined Arsenal he was a bit part player for a good couple of seasons. Yes a hattrick for England is a fantastic achievement, but one game doesn't define a player's career. At Saints he was the hottest prospect in English football. The new Rooney. When you compare Rooney staying at Everton for 2 years and what he has achieved, I think he made the wiser choice long term.

Oh this is brilliant. "In the two seasons he has spent playing for Saints, if you take away the scoring patch when he first came here, then take away the scoring patch he went through last season, he hasn't scored very many." Why not just go the whole hog and knock off the two he scored at the start of the 07/08 season and that one against Sheff Utd? If we're going to just blank bit of his Saints career out then: "Ignoring the 07/08 season, Saga has been our top scorer in every spell he has been here." Just out of interest why is the 10 goals in 13 starts when he first joined regarded as a flash in the pan, whilst the 3 goals in 15 starts 2 years ago are used to define his Saints career? Maybe I'm going soft, but I'd like to give him more than 4 starts to prove himself. Who would you pick instead. Paterson has, the Millwall game aside, looked nowhere near ready for the first team. Papa hasn't proven anything yet. Maybe HCDAJFU up front, but I'd rather have some pace out wide.

I do not doubt that gang warefare reflects a large proportion on murders in the US. But look at the states which do not have the death penalty. Vermont makes maple syrup, Maine catch lobsters, Haiwaiians surf, Alaskans **** moose. Yes I am being tongue in cheek, but my point is these places are just so far removed from the ghettos in DC and Detroit that you cannot draw comparisons in this instance. I know my experiment, which is why we could probably argue until the cows come home and never agree. That would however be the only fair way of comparing the situations. To remove all other variables. One final point from my. Can you honestly say 100% that the death penalty has never put ANYONE off commiting murder. If it has, just once, it is a deterant. If that one person who was saved from murder happened to be someone in your family, then you might feel differently. I'm not trivialising her point. This is just my POV. My POV is that murder is wrong and if it can be proved beyond all doubt then death should be the consequence. Murder is a choice. If you chose to murder, you must accept the consequences. You are, indirectly, chosing to die. Why is it morally wrong to kill someone who choses to die?

It's wrong to lock people up in big concrete buildings and not let them out too, that's kind of the point of a punishment. They don't like it. Anyway, if you commit murder knowing there is a death penalty, it's your choice. You are quite litterally taking your life in your own hands. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't kill someone, then say "it's wrong to kill, don't kill me"

It's not just about wealth, it's more to do with gangs and crime culture. Are the young people shooting each other in the streets of Washington fighting over loathes of bread and warm clothing? No of course not. The only way you could realistically test the deterant theory is to have two competely identical societies, one with the death penalty and one without. Or you could ask 1,000,000 murderers if the death penalty would have put them off. If one of them says yes, it is a deterant.

He has. Twice in 2 years infact. He just hasn't done it consistently. The fact that the 2 years since he signed have been relegation battles with poor teams might have had an effect on his form. The only better options we've had in that period were John and Rasiak, who have both moved on to higher league sides. Now we have Lambert too, but lets see how Saga performs in the new look team before we throw him on the scrap heap. I don't think Euell, BWP, DMG, Pericard, Paterson or Robertson can do better than 1 in 5.

It's not a case of being mentally enfeebled, it's more of a cultural difference. You just don't get anywhere near the levels of gang warefare in places like Vermont and Rhode Island that you would in the poorer parts of Detroit, Dallas, Phoenix, Vegas, Chicago, Washington DC, NYC or Baltimore. You can't really draw comparisons between Vermont with 2.6 murders per 100,000 and Detroit with 45. It's like saying a higher proportion of people are killed fighting in Afghanistan than were killed at the West Ham - Millwall game a few weeks ago. Kevlar jackets and helmets do not make you safer, so our soldiers would be better off wearing hoodies and tracksuits. I think the death penalty would provide a deterant to a small but significant number of people who could potentially commit murder. If it dropped the UK murder rate by 1 in 100,000 people, then 600 fewer families a year wouldn't get torn appart. Try telling them their loss is insignificant.

He was pretty effective at Leigia Warsaw And at Lodz And at Vitoria And at Aalborg last season And when he came back and scored 6 in 7 games. But yes, appart from those 6 instances and his 13 year international career, he has always been sh*t.

You do have a point. For 2007, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 5.5, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1. However I think that has more to do with the states which don't have the death penalty being generally more affluent. States like Vermont, Rhone Island, Hawaii and Maine. Texas and New York are different to the point that they might aswell be two completely different countries. You can fiddle the stats to show anything. New Jersey has no death penalty and Newark has a murder rate of 37 per 100,000. If you don't believe it's a deterant then fine, but it's not my main reason for supporting the death penalty in certain cases.

It would be pretty funny if we got a points tally with a square root before the blue few I must admit.

Who's to say what the murder rate in the US would be if it weren't for the death penalty. I'm not saying it would make a massive difference, but that's not my main reason for supporting it. Even if 5 innocent people a year are saved from an untimely death by the deterant, that's worth the lives of 50 murderers IMO.

I don't get people calling him sh*t when he blatently isn't. He just isn't, we've all seen what he can do. Not scoring and out of form, but that can be rectified by decent coaching and a bit of effort on his behalf.

The problem in America is the right to bare arms. It's a stupid "right" which means any old f*ckwit can walk into a gunstore, buy a couple of assault rifles and go fire off a few rounds in the local primary school. In Britain I think it would be different. Would it eradicate violent crime? No of course not, but I do think some people would think twice before leaving their house packing heat. An eye for an eye does not leave everyone blind, only those who CHOOSE to commit murder. Bungle repeatedly refers to murder by the state as still being murder. I can't be arse to argue that point, but I will say it is the murders choice. You CHOOSE to muder someone, you have to accept the consequences. If the consequences are being executed then well, you'd better take it easy on the murdering for a while. We're not talking about slaughtering the innocent here, it IS a choice. If you don't muder, you don't get executed. As for the whole reasonable doubt/all doubt debate... if you can't tell the differene you're a f**kin reject. People are convicted on evidence beyond reasonable doubt. Murderers should only be sentences to death if you say absolutely 100% that they did it. I'm not for sentencing people on a whim, but if a crowd of people see a man pull out a machine gun and start mowing down passers by, I think it's fairly safe to assume they are guilty.

W00T! Sat in a hotel in Latvia, just checked in on the result. Sounds like the dodgiest win since we beat Everton in 2002 but it was the result that mattered today. Fookin brilliant. One more and we'll be into possitive figures. Pompey making the worst start to a season in Premiership history kind of adds flavour to the meal too.

Off to Riga. Brb.

Villa have a pen ... 1-0

Ever heard of an eye for an eye? I think execution (or murder as you call it) is a perfect punishment for some people. What about the scum who repeatedly abused and then killed Baby P or Ian Huntley, Fred West etc? If there is a death penalty it is the murderer's choice. They CHOSE to kill someone, therefore they have to accept the consequences. You say the state does not have the right to take someone's life. What about the Battle of Britain? All those Germans flying over and what do we do? Get in spitfires and go and shoot them. Murdering bastards those RAF types, we should have just surrendered the moment Hitler invaded Poland. My point is not all killings are murder. In the case of people like West, Huntley etc I think it is a just punnishment. Perhaps if the death penalty were a punishment there'd be a few less hoodies knifing people on Britain's streets. And I don't care what you tell me, in Phoenix I bought 10 shotgun cartridges for $5. Maybe if you want to do it the American way and keep inmates in a maximum security prison for 25 years before you kill them it would cost more, but that just defies the point IMO.