Turkish

Who has said that? Yet another one who hasn't got a clue. No one, for probably the 50th time says that they shouldn't be punished, no one says the police forced anyone to do anything. What people are saying, if you bother to read the thread properly, is that the police could have avoided the whole thing by doing what every police force in the country does at hostile game. Hold the away fans in. By the way i cant believe we've got 13 pages of people still claiming that everyone who thinks 12 months in prision for shouting aggesively is harsh is saying its totally the polices fault and the offenders shouldn't be punished

wouldn't have happened, i am sure of that, in all the Saints v Pompey games when they have kept fans in they have never tried to get at them on the pitch. Unlike the other games, Burnley for example, there were a lot more police on duty. There was never a hint of trouble inside the ground anyway.

They are beatable, at least it is a game to get excited about.

The Blackburn v Burnley game was ridiculous situation where a Blackurn fan who lived 2 miles from the Burnley ground would only be allowed in if he travelled on official club transport so he had to travel to Blackburn then back to Burnley on the club buses. I think the trains with a police escort worked well enough so far, there was minimal trouble before the game. It would limit the amount of flash points though as 1000 away fans being escorted through a city centre is alwasy going to be an invitation for some to cause trouble. Its not a question of thugs dictating, its a question of what is safest for the majority of fans, letting them all out together to mingle with each other is not it.

In that case thye'd also need to block off the side roads by the industral estates as fans were running up there to get at Pompey fans too. Or alternatively just use a bit of common sense and keep them in the ground until the areas directly surrounding SMS were clear.

i Dont think they are part of the culture but every club has an element, like it or not. Convincing yourself that rival fans will walk home together from local derbies as best mates doens't mean it is going to go away.

He was apparently the best left back in L1 last season, i dont know much about him other than that run for their goal against us at SMS. I cant see him coming here as second choice though, not when CCC clubs were in for him.

Harding is not a Centre back, anyone with half an ounce of football knowledge can see that.

That doesn't matter, Dune thinks we should all mingle together merrily, holding hands and swapping shirts and scarves. Putting up fences is allowing yobs to dictate.

That is an arguement for the future. At that time, at that place Feb 2010, you think Pompey fans should have been let out as you put it, 'to blend in with the dispersing crowd' also if saints fans looking for a ruck cant find any pompey 'yobs' then they can attack innocent fans, they were your words. At the time of 2004 no custodials had been handed out to Pompey fans, that came in the months after the game. The OB had no idea what might happen, so with no custodials to be aware of for the 'yobs' to worry about just the police to make the call on when to let the saints fans out they chose to keep them in, which in your view was the right decision. Which i agree with. So why, was it the right decison to let them out at the same time at St Marys? same circumstances.

well no it doesn't because according to you, 'Yobs' should not dicatate when people leave football grounds. They should be allowed to mingle with other fans freely, although not it would seem in 2004. I dont see why 'yobs' should dictate at when people leave Fratton Park but they shouldn't dictate when they leave St Marys, regardless of exit routes, having head starts etc. By having exit routes in place sure this is allowing 'yobs' to dictate? And obviously with regard to your comment about where most of the 'yobs' sit, you know this do you? Where do you sit?

and probably never been to a derby in his life despite claims not have missed one since 1996 and probably hardly ever goes to games, no one that goes regularly can be that clueless.

Its nothing to do with exit routes though is it Dune. You said earlier why should yobs dictate when people leave matches. Regardless of the way they would leave the ground you said you think fans should be mingle together. In your view, it was not right to let them mingle together in 2004 when the police knew there could be trouble and there was, however, it was right to let them do it in 2010, when the police knew there could be trouble, and there was.

Sensible to let them out so rival innocent fans can be attacked? That is very senisble. Much more sensible than keeping innocents and 'yobs' in the ground until there is no one in the area to attack them.

I dont see how they could have really as one was a 0-1 defeat played out in awful conditions and the other was probably the most gutless performance by a saints side in my lifetime. Regardless of the team and the weather though, you must have been furious at being kept in for an hour or more, surely? But that aside, bearing in mind what happened after the 2004 game though, do you think keeping the saints fans in after the game was right or wrong? Should they have been kept in the ground, or should they have been let out into the riot that was going on in the streets outside?

But you were held in the ground for over an hour Dune, was it not raining that day? The terrace was open back then, no where to cover from the rain. You must have been furious to have been made to stand in the rain all that time and not allowed to mingle with the Pompey fans outside? Really they should have let you out and face the baying mob shouldn't they, stood back and let they get on with it, rather than keeping you in Fratton Park when they knew full well there was a good chance of serious disorder outside the ground.

What else would you expect a copper to say? I am still waiting to hear what you said to the police when they stopped you mingling with Pompey fans in 2004. Come on, whats the hold up?

I agree mate, but if there is nothing to attack then no attack can take place. There is a better chance of confrontation being avoided if there is no one to confront.

why?

Nothing of the sort Dune. So come on then, did you express your outrage to the boys in blue when you weren't allowed to leave Fratton Park in 2004? Or where you glad they kept you in the ground and cleared the Pomey fans away?

I have NEVER said the OB are responsbile, look back through my posts on this subject. What i have said numerous times and i'll say it again now is 1/ The people involved were silly to do so 2/ They deserve to be punished, having been found guilty 3/ Their sentances were way over the top- again using 12 months for shouting aggresively as an stand out example 4/ The whole thing could have been avoided if the police had done what EVERY OTHER police force do and hold away fans in after games. Like they have done themselves to us at Fratton. I have said this on many many occasions.

If you read View from the Tops comments his BIL works for the FIU and the sentance were predetermined before the trial/guilty pleas, so their barristers were about as useful as trying to out out a bush fire with a tea cup full of water. IMO i think a few cracks round the nut with a batton might make people think twice, that is what they do in Europe.

Not really Ponty, in your opinion prehaps, but i know looking at your posts you sit on the 'lock um up and throw away the key' side of the fence. Dunes comments were "why should the thugs dictate when fans leave a stadium? In the safety of the public it was the right course of action - why should normal pompey fans be exposed to feral thugs by being forced to walk through St marys when the bulk of the crowd had dispersed" When it was suggest the police could have avoid the whole thing by not letting the Pompey fans out. So they COULD have prevented it if they had chose too, just like they chose to prevent the armed robbery in Chandlers Ford. Just because you dont agree with me does not make my views pathetic.

Dune thinks they should open the door for him, why let machete wielding thugs ruin the day for non machete wielding thugs .....

Why? The police prevented that armed robbery. The police could- not saying would have, but COULD have prevented the scenes at Freeborn garage by keeping the pompey fans in, clearing the area then letting them out, like every other police force does. Both are crimes, one was prevented by the actions of the police, which were very brave and commendable, one was not prevented by the actions of the police, when it could have been. What is the difference?