CanadaSaint

If the powers-that-be though that we could just enter the January window looking to add a depth player or two, the last five games - and especially tonight - have surely changed that. It almost feels as though we're back where we were when Koeman arrived. Long and Mané look abysmal, Morgan almost looks like he's already checked out, and I'm even less convinced about Forster than I was when we signed him. All I'm trying to figure out now is whether something-unseen has happened inside the club, because we've suddenly fallen off the cliff with no apparent explanation.

Maybe so, but I never once got the sense that this was a game on which we placed a high priority.

This is what happens when you go into a game half-arsed. Either go for it with the team selection or bottle it.

The numbers don't really support you. Looking at the line-ups we've started, which (granted) ignore the impact of substitutions, we've clearly done better with Tadic/Pelle/Long starting. Tadic, Pelle and Long: West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Arsenal - 15 Points, 2.5 Points per game Tadic, Pelle and Mané: QPR, Spurs, Stoke, Leicester, Man City, Burnley - 9 Points, 1.5 PPG Tadic, Pelle, Long and Mané: Villa, Man United - 1 Point, 0.5 PPG Tadic and Pelle: Liverpool, West Brom 1 Point, 0.5 PPG Anecdotally, and just as a personal opinion, I'd say that we've also played better in those games - more balanced, more pleasing to the eye, more effective. I'm not making Long out to be more than he is and I agree with pretty much everyone else that we overpaid for him, and that we need to add to our front line strength in January. I'm saying that we're stronger tactically and positionally, and the front group seems to be much more effective (which includes the FBs and midfielders when we're pushing), with Long in the starting line up rather than Mané. The obvious corollary is that we're worse with Mané in the starting line-up.

Let's hope he was instrumental in the signing of Mané and that he manages to sign some similar nuggets for Spurs.

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad. We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively. In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances. To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench. Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs. I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him. Roll on AFCoN. All IMO, of course.

He was "static" again on that first half cross that ended up in the scramble inside the six yard box. With little in the way of blocking attackers, it was "keeper's ball" all the way, especially for a guy his height, but he inexplicably stayed on his line and mayhem ensued. We ended up with a free kick for something in the melé but Forster's lack of decisiveness created the problem in the first place. He has to make his height and physical stature his biggest assets and dominate the goalmouth, especially as low shots will always be challenging for him, but he's not even doing that consistently. And inconsistency on crosses sews uncertainty among defenders, which we're starting to see.

My optimism dropped dramatically when I saw Mané in the starting line up. Whatever his talents are, they are far too raw for the Premier league - and especially this team. His lack of tactical/positional discipline is screwing up the way other players contribute to a style that was working very well for us. It was clearly apparent in the Spurs game when he kept coming inside instead of taking on a slow full back (Dier), and even then he missed a sitter right in front of goal. He doesn't look like a good finisher so he either plays wide or (my preference) not at all. Oh well, If Koeman can't see it, we'll just have to look forward to AFCoN. I have a feeling that Sheffield United will be Burnley Mk 2 in terms of how they play so we need to get this sorted out pronto.

We are going to face exactly the same kind of football on Tuesday, so we'd better figure things out. I can't for the life of me understand why it's taking Koeman so long to realize that Mané is a liability most of the time and that his undisciplined style screws up both Pelle and Tadic, as well as Bertrand and the advance midfielder(s).

Tadic is a "scuff shooter" - he seldom gets clean contact on his shots, so I'm not sure why he'd be taking spot kicks. Starting to get concerned about some of our decision making. I can't see us ever hitting our stride with Mané in the team. He screws us up both offensively and defensively because nobody knows where he'll be or what he'll do.

That's how it has seemed to me. I much prefer Long on the right, Tadic on the left, and Mané on the bench. Mané doesn't seem to have a football brain at all, so his pace and (occasional) skill will end up being wasted.

Sure, the corners weren't good but it's not just about the cross. City didn't clear the front man with several of theirs, but that front man was one of their guys and the flick-on caused us a ton of trouble. It would be nice to see one of our big guy make a late near-post run just in case we under-hit the cross - again.

I'm with you on the line up but I think we can go there and win. They're not in the same league as City, especially with their injuries. But we need to field our best starting line up. Regardless of the Cork or Schneiderlin decision, that - for me - means Long on the right, Tadic on the left and Mané on the bench. Mané's another fart in a thunderstorm - it's all right saying he's unpredictable for our opponents but we don't have any idea what he's going to do either, and our key guys are scrambling to get out of his way. Someone needs to have a word in his ear - as in "use your pace out wide and stop keep cutting inside, destroying our shape and negating Pelle and our forward midfielders." No wonder Tadic and Pelle have gone off the boil.

What did/didn't Yoshida do today to warrant that conclusion? Bear in mind that the problems that cost us goals weren't on his side. And also the fact that Gardos became a bit of a liability in the last ten minutes of the League Cup tie at Stoke.

We were reasonably competitive but losing Morgan meant that we didn't have his unique brand of cover for the two mistakes we made on the right side. We also lost Alderwieireld's reading of danger situations at the back. I think we're a better side with Long in (over Mané) and with Tadic playing on the left. Mané, for me, disrupts our style rather than contributes to it. I hoped for a draw today but I was (and remain) more optimistic about the next two. People need to park the "we got found out" crap and recognize that we lost to a top two team. The next three places are still very much up for grabs.

I'm sure that the players are relishing the upcoming games against the big boys - and probably have fewer misgivings than the average fan. For an athlete there's nothing like pitting your talents against the best and coming out on top. Despite what they say publicly about "taking one game at a time", they've been looking forward to this run of fixtures for weeks. But none more so than Koeman.

FF's point wasn't that he should be playing more but that it's hard to understand why we wouldn't have signed him to a new contract in order to protect his market value. And it's a very valid point because that's very much in the club's best interests. The longer it's left the more likely it is that we'll lose a potentially significant amount of money. It would be understandable if Corky, realizing that he's not highly rated here, becomes reluctant to sign an extension in order to increase his options for a new club - and probably his wages because that new club wouldn't need to pay a big fee for him.

The 8-0 win over Sunderland was great at the time but it has directly led to that situation IMO. We'd better get used to it and still find a way to win. To be fair to Koeman's starting selection, if we hadn't conceded such a god-aweful first goal to such a god-aweful attacking side, we might well have won that in a canter. I'm sure Villa couldn't believe their luck, but they buckled down really well to the task of protecting that led by spoiling everything we did. I was impressed by Okore. We didn't help ourselves by taking a "wide or nothing" approach - and then compounding the problem with poor delivery.

With hindsight I think we should have maintained the structure and shape that has worked so well for us - putting Cork in for Davis and keeping either Long or Mané on the bench. It was almost as though we had too much width today. Mané didn't get much out of (Goatboy's) Hutton but I think the commentators made a good point - sometimes we should leave the wide man to take on the full back in space, rather than close that space up with another overlap. He's a decent enough keeper I'm still not convinced by Forster.

To keep playing the way we've been playing we'd have Corky in for Davis, surely? If Koeman thinks he can overpower Villa with offence (without much fear of their offence) he'd make the change he's made. This is either going to go very well or very disappointingly, but we've seen no reason not to trust Koeman's judgment.

I've often wondered what the Black Box would say about MLT.

Not in the games I've seen. Positionally weak, slow to get back, and quick to foul in dangerous places. My (Villa nut) mate can't stand watching him. I hope my Hutton plays and not yours.

Continuing with the good news theme (IMO), Hutton is expected to be fit. Mané could take him to the cleaners - if he stays wide.

Regardless of whether Mitchell heads for Spurs, I hope Ralph & Co are ready to dismiss any approach from them for any player or, at the very least, make it clear that they are now subject to a special 25% premium on any fee. At some point we have to make it clear that we do have a way of punishing teams that engage in unwelcome and often questionable conduct regarding our players or staff. After all, the predatory clubs are far more likely to want our players than we are to want theirs (along with their crazy contracts).

I realize that, but my point was why say it now when he certainly didn't need to, and when saying it could fuel unhelpful media speculation?