CanadaSaint

I'm a little surprised about the Yoshida decision too, because I would have thought that picking the Wanyama/Romeu tandem would have given us the defensive cover to be more aggressive at RB. Especially as we lack Bertrand's attacking contribution on the other side. It almost looks like LVG has picked a home side and RK has picked a counter-attacking away side. But it's only the starting line-up and it's a squad game these days.

Is it my imagination or have the referees seemed rather slower to pull out the yellow cards this week - as though they've been told that early yellows should be given judiciously because they create problems later in the game?

I agree with much of your post. Yes, JWP and Davis "help us maintain high ball possession" but the problem is that they don't have the talent (at least as a duo) to enable us to "control the game" in the sense of getting the result our possession arguably deserves. Sure, a lot of our offense is based on width but, if anything, that should make it easier for advance midfielders to create things because they have a little more space and often time. There were numerous opportunities yesterday for one of them to deliver a dangerous pass but they lacked the skill, vision, confidence or mindset to do it. I certainly don't agree that shooting isn't their role in the team, because the high ball possession (and our width) gives them numerous opportunities to do exactly that - especially in and around the "D" on the edge of the box (see Blind's goal for United yesterday and Grealish's goal for Villa today). Instead, they often turn and look for an easier pass option - one that usually negates the pressure we've just built. I really don't understand how JWP can strike a dead ball so well but offers little of that in open play. It's going to be interesting to see how Koeman plans to fit Clasie in. Many of us have felt that he'd play in front of two DMs, although our Dutch friends don't think he's suited to that role, and are adamant that he would be better as one of those DMs. Koeman's decision to not go with Wanyama and (the very effective) Romeu yesterday could be an indicator that he sees Clasie as a DM, but then why did we buy Romeu? Hopefully, all will become clear in the next few weeks, but I do really like our squad - just not a line-up with both Davis and JWP in it.

Nice enough guy but I'd rather saw-off my own testicles than follow a team he manages.

It's bemusing that the creative limitations of the Davis/Ward-Prowse duo were there to see from the first minute - and yet they finished the match. I'd say they cancelled eachother out but they weren't really doing anything to cancel.

I don't think the Davis/Ward-Prowse duo is very effective - for me it's either/or, definitely not both. I'd be inclined to pull one of them for Romeu, whose passing has been impressive. Mané could create some havoc against a fairly ponderous back four - him on the right,Tadic on the left. But that involves a lot of changes. I really like Koeman but some of his starting line-ups have been head-scratchers.

Trust me, I get that. But the Celtic fans could make a similar argument to the one we make - "just think what we could achieve (in Europe - their only real competition) if we kept our best players instead of flogging them off as soon as a good offer comes along". They will never forget 1967, nor should they. I'm not saying that we should all just smile our way through times like that - I sure can't. I'm saying that we could do without a lot of the nastiness and vitriol aimed at players, management, the board and the ownership that always seems to emerge on here from certain posters whenever we hit challenges that are (for a club like us, in today's game) absolutely inevitable. Some of the stuff that was posted last year was sickening. And here we are again this year, after a very successful year, with many of the same people posting the same ill-informed, blame-culture drivel. Of course, it won't change but there's no harm in wishing it would.

That's probably more like it. The one thing that Levy seems to do well is make others pay for his own inadequacies. The PL would be better for his disappearance.

Have to say that I've been really impressed with the Celtic fans who have visited our forum. No resentment, no bitterness, no lashing out at their club and its management - just an acceptance that this is a reality they have to deal with. And then good wishes to the departing players. There's a lesson for us in that but I doubt it will be heeded.

It's actually been a very good window for clubs outside the "big six" - not so much because they've made solid signings but because at least three of them (us, Everton, WBA) - and likely more - have stood their ground against the big clubs. It's nice when you see a spoiled brat find out that money can't always buy them what they really want - especially when they click their fingers late in the window and expect to succeed. So Spurs have to contend with an inadequate midfield, United have to live with a dodgy keeper, and Chelsea had better hope that neither Terry nor Cahill pick up a bad one. I''m enjoying the day, not just as a Saints fan but as a football fan as well.

I think we'll do well up there as long as we don't commit the cardinal sin we committed last year - letting a Pulis side score on us early. From that point it was all about trying to counter their horrible, stifling negativity - and, of course, ball boys gone missing. I'd say AWOL but I think they did have leave.

Agree with this. With the depth we now have, as well as the various tactical and positional permutations that go along with it (and there are quite a few), I can see us going on a hell of a good run after Christmas, when other 4-10 teams are grappling with lack of depth (just as we did last year). Sure, some of those 4-10 teams have strengthened (Palace, Stoke) but don't seem to have the depth we now have. Weaker first half of the season, much stronger second half - and 5-8 could be within reach. I like Itchen_dan's line-up as well but I'm not sure we're going to see Wanyama in there right away. Koeman's a pretty genial guy but I suspect he's not one to cross and he might (I hope) be looking to make an important point-of-principle for the club as a whole. Wanyama may have some work to do to get back in RK's good graces before he gets into the starting line up. A lot of this depends on how Koeman is looking to utilize Clasie - as one of the two defensive midfielders or just in front of them.

I'm sure Pochettino is really frustrated because he doesn't have the very thing that forms the engine room for his style of play, never mind some depth there - or up front. Doubtless he'll be looking for a move to a big club.

I get the distinct impression that Koeman is not someone to cross, and Wanyama must have crossed him big-time for RK to make a public comment like "I left him out of the squad because he's not physically or mentally fit to play". The mix of which Wanyama is a part - our midfield - got a lot thicker on Sunday. JWP found a niche that has been lacking in his game for a long time, and Romeu was outstanding. I realize that this might be a heresy on here but I found myself thinking that Romeu might even end up being an upgrade on Schneiderlin. While he's not as good as Schneiderlin at breaking up opposition play (who is, apart from Matic?), he seemed to have better awareness of what to do next, how to turn defence into attack with a shrewd (and often forward) pass. Add to that the fact that Clasie will soon be ready to play, and the fact that we used width better than we have for ages, and I think Wanyama will not stroll back into the team, even when he removes his head from his arse. If Vic wants a big move next Summer he's going to have to earn it, and that will have to start with getting back into the side.

Romeu was excellent and his vision and passing are IMO a major upgrade on Wanyama's. JWP may just be starting to find a niche in this side, but much of that depends on how RK wants Clasie to fit in. I loved our width today, with an exciting Cedric/Mané parnership on the right and a much more effective Tadic on the left (which will only get better when Bertrand is back). As soon as we realized how dynamic this was (aided by the red card) the hoofing stopped almost completely. This is a very good squad with more depth-in-quality than the last two years in my view, and when they're all fit for selection we'll be a match for anyone. I don't want us to lose Wanyama but I would like to lose the sullen, self-centered attitude that he exhibits too often and that hurts dressing rooms. So I guess I'd opt for B'bye as long as we bring someone else in.

I know the commentators are saying it was a good tackle but it wasn't. It was a scissor tackle, which they were rightly trying to get out of the game a few years back. Those aren't too far short of "going over the ball" in terms of the dangers they pose.

How this cretin is still a PL referee is beyond me.

I appreciate your informed insight but that makes him a rather expensive gamble, doesn't it? If not that one, what role can you see him fulfilling effectively?

Agree 100% with the first paragraph and the first part of the second. I have more faith than you, though, in the ability of Clasie to play in front of Romeu and Wanyama, assuming that Wanyama stays. He doesn't need to be an out-and-out creator so much as to ensure that our full backs receive the ball - and receive it early - in the danger areas they're so quick and so good at finding. That's crisp, accurate out-passes after an opposition attack breaks down, which is very much in his ballpark - though not so much in Wanyama's or Romeu's. We DO have playmakers (not Davis or - on current form - Ward-Prowse), but we need to have our (fullback-involved) team game rolling if they are to be effective. I can see Clasie fitting well into that role and I think that's why we bought him - he doesn't have the physical stature to play a DM role in the PL.

Well, as Churchill said, right now it's very effectively disguised.

At least they can leave with their heads held high but I doubt that most of them will. Well done, folks.

I'm utterly bemused that someone who was so tactically adept for most of last season could turn that clueless this quickly. As Derry said, this isn't the first time this season that he's got the starting line up shockingly wrong - and that's not a judgment of hindsight because each time plenty of people voiced reservations before a ball was even kicked. But for Koeman to fail to see it at half time tonight, and then to make bizarre comments about how well we played, is really, really troubling. I don't subscribe to the view myself but I can quite understand why some would think that there's trouble behind the doors of SMS and/or that Koeman is playing some kind of game here. I still think we have a very good squad and an excellent starting eleven, but that will count for naught if Koeman keeps getting the line up and tactics wrong. Stunned. Just stunned.

Given the style of his game, I don't think there's a coach in the world more likely to improve him than Koeman. With that kind of guidance, "World class" is not beyond him. And given the CD challenges of some of the PL big boys, I still can't believe we're in with a good chance of getting him. But perhaps the "Koeman factor" is the key element. If he comes, let's just enjoy his time with us in the full knowledge that he's likely to end up at one of the real elite clubs - more so than any player we've had so far.

If a player like Pelle is going to be effective, we need others to anticipate his knock-downs and layoffs and burst into the space they can open up. Nobody is really doing that right now. Mané tends to do his own thing (lethal at some times, almost laughable at others) and JayRod (who fed really well off Lambert) isn't back to full fitness yet - physical fitness or match fitness. Advanced midfielders could certainly do it but Davis couldn't score in a brothel and JWP is far from the player he looked like becoming; even if they are there for the layoff, their first instinct is to turn and pass square or backwards. Opportunity lost. For me, Pelle takes a lot of sh*t as a result of the inadequacies of others.

I'd like to know what has happened to him behind the scenes. He was at that kind of level not too far back but he's taken on a lot of the Davis characteristics in his 'offensive' game, but lacks Davis's chase-back tenacity in his defensive game. I don't know whether it's a coaching thing or a confidence thing, but the result is really disappointing.