CanadaSaint

I know 1) what the Club's policy is/seems to be, 2) that Fonte is an aging asset, 3) that he has seen others go for bigger paydays, 4) that this has usually happened with a final contract year looming, 5) that we have been able to command big transfer fees for outgoing key players, and 6) that we have generally replaced departing assets very well. Fonte is contractually obliged to play for us until Summer 2018 unless we choose to let him go, so 4) doesn't apply. Given his age, he doesn't qualify for the big transfer fee, so 5) doesn't work here either. And I have my doubts about 6) as well - quality central defenders are hard to find and expensive, and we haven't been linked with any for several months. Rojo could do the job (IMO he's better in central D) but there will be wage issues and could be attitude issues. But I also know 1) that Fonte dovetails very well with VvD, 2) that Cedric would be exposed more often if he didn't have a linguistic partner right next to him, 3) that Yoshida and Gardos are not of PL starting calibre, and 4) that we're caught between the jaws of a season-already-started and a closing window. For me, this one decision has the capability of making the difference between an 8th place finish and a 14th place finish. Given that continuous development has been a cornerstone of club policy, we're about to find out whether that cornerstone is more important than the supposed club policies you guys reference.

I really like Fonte and greatly admire what he's done on the pitch and in the dressing room. But at some point the Club has to draw a line in the sand for its own long term well being. We've effectively failed numerous of these vital tests over the past three years and we just can't afford to fail yet another. We have to break the cycle. Not only would we lose a player with 2-3 good years left in him, and a working dovetail with (possibly) the best central defender in the PL. We would also, I suspect, see a significant downturn in Cedric's effectiveness. I'm sure there's a ton of in-game communication between Fonte and Cedric (who is coverage and concentration error-prone) - and I'm certain that this communication isn't in English. And this with the season already underway and precious few potential replacements available. It's much easier to draw that line in the sand with a player valued at 8 million and with 2-3 years of contract left. As for the "gentlemen's agreement", it would only carry weight with me if both gentlemen and their representatives acted like gentlemen. If the player's agent starts touting the player around behind the scenes, everything changes. What is José going to do if we stand firm?

Seriously, WTF do some of you folks expect? Losing Pelle will significantly change the way we play, so why the preoccupation with a "Mané replacement"? For all his skill and lightning pace, there were times when Mané destroyed our tactical structure because nobody (including him) knew where he was going next. Likewise with Wanyama. It's easy to remember the powerhouse DM but forget the misplaced passes, needless red cards, frequent lack of awareness, and tendency to lose his mark on the edge of our box. We've lost some good players but they certainly weren't without their faults. Do people want us to buy replacements before Puel has had a chance to properly assess his squad - not just individual players but how they fit together? His balls are on the line here and he needs time to do it. Would people rather that we make hurried buys and hope the players complement eachother and fit into his style of play? We could only make 6th in the PL with a lot of people at the Club knowing what they're doing, and doing it very well. I'm quite happy to back off and let them do it again. Make that yet again.

I can't imagine that it's just being held up by the simple need for a signature. Ronnie would have sorted out his own compensation first, but perhaps the package for Erwin and Kluitenberg is a sticking point. Or maybe he's concerned about a situation in which Stones is keen to leave and Saints are going to make it nigh on impossible for VvD to join him up there. With Scott Dann on their shopping list and not much else on the market, I would be too. Or maybe he's facing some legal issues of his own surrounding the dumping of his agent just before he commits to a new deal. That one could get very ugly and expensive if Guido Albers decides to pursue it, so perhaps Koeman is looking for Everton to pick up the legal tab or settlement cost. Whatever it is, I don't give a sh*t. I just want us to sort out our own situation.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO THESE CRETINS.

Saturday morning conspiracy theory: It's not beyond the realms of possibility that Ron actually had two agents on the go - his official one, Guido Albers, and another one who was secretly talking with Farhad Moshiri. It's intriguing that Koeman would dump an agent who also represented one of his rivals for the Everton job. It will be very interesting to see how Albers reacts to this - he just lost a very big payday. What a dirty business football has become.

Perhaps Koeman's new agent had already done some groundwork behind the scenes with the new part-owner, and then approached Koeman, at which point Koeman understandably decided to change his agent. The increased cost is not just whatever we'd need to pay Koeman over and above his current offer. I'm sure he's insisting on a cracking deal for Erwin and whoever else he'd take with him, so everything rockets upwards. The reality is that it's actually a choice between a mega-quid additional outflow to keep him and a circa 3 million inflow (compensation) to let him go. I'd be shocked (and frankly rather disgusted with Koeman) if he went, and I think he's making a dumb career move, but I'm committed to the fiscally responsible approach, no matter what other clubs are doing. If he goes, he goes. I still have faith in Reed and the club.

We were outworked all over the pitch for the full ninety minutes, which is disgusting. Our constant square passing in midfield allowed Bournemouth to settle defensively before we ever got near their box. Mané is a waste of a shirt, and the over the top (apart from Arsenal) praise of Fraser Forster during the good run seems like a distant memory. What the hell was he doing on the second? Good luck to Bournemouth - they gave us a lesson in effort, commitment and - surprisingly - attractive football.

How do you work that out? He does well in getting into attacking positions but, once there, his limitations are exposed - the inability on any consistent basis to deliver a killer pass, or to finish the chances that often come his way. I like him more than my mate Derry does, but I can certainly see his point. If we had a high-end final-third midfielder, perhaps our greatest need, I think we'd be far higher in the table. But, in fairness to Davis, we'd also lose some important things. Reading the Davis debate on here, I think everyone, including Derry, is right to some degree.

Benjii responded in the same way as you but I'm not understanding the distinction. Yes, we played with a back three but we could have done that with either one of them in the middle of it. Moving VvD to the other side is, at least to me, quite a significant change considering that we've spent the entire season playing Fonte ® and VvD (L). Regardess, it seemed to work very well because the uncertainties evident in Fonte's recent form disappeared, and he seemed much more assured. I really liked how they dovetailed last night, and that has been a cause for concern over recent weeks. I sure hope you're allowed to see it that way because that's exactly how I see it too. I think he brings a lot to the team, but two of the things we need most - an incisive final pass and a good finish - are not really on the list. I'm quite happy to recognize him for what he is, and yet get frustrated with him because of what he doesn't seem capable of delivering.

Not quite sure how you can say "they didn't really switch" when they clearly did, but I agree with the rest of what you said. The three of them looked like a very composed unit that read virtually every situation really well - and they weren't up against dummies. Bertrand seemed to enjoy that role and it both protected Targett from his weaknesses and allowed him to exhibit strengths we've never really seen before. Some of his deliveries into the box were the best we've seen for some time, and on on-form Pelle could cash in on that kind of service. It would be harsh to leave Long out after last night's efforts but Targett hitting Pelle could be lethal. It will be interesting to see if Koeman did this as a one-off or if we see the same at the weekend.

I'm surprised there have been so few comments on Fonte and VvD switching sides. That was a major change which, for me, worked out really well. Whether RK did it just for Watford or as a 'permanent' change remains to be seen, but I'd like to see Koeman retain it because it also helped Cedric and Bertrand to look more solid and gave them more chances to push forward. It certainly didn't hurt that Romeu, Clasie and Targett played so well in front of them.

Yes, Targett was just excellent - barely put a foot wrong all night. He seems better in a role in which he's not back-pedalling but attacking the ball when he sees fit, and his distribution was spot-on. And Cedric seemed much more aware defensively. That wasn't an easy front two to play against but they never got a sniff. I'd love to know the distance that Long covered tonight. I'm still shaking my head at Mané. Oh well, when there's a thunderstorm going on it's best not to play a fart in it. He's such an enigma.

Was it just me, or did the Fonte/VvD dovetail look much better with VvD on the right and Fonte on the left?

TFFT

Whenever Mané has to think he's screwed. Lots of brilliant instinct but no real football brain.

What worries me most is that we have lost the key elements of the identity we worked so hard to build over the last few years - a reasonably stable line-up, a solid defence, a trademark playing style with lots of off-the-ball movement, width and quick passing, high fitness levels, a solid core of English players, and a willingness to bring youngsters through. And always, in the players, a clear commitment to "the cause". I took great pride in all those things, and they earned us respect throughout football, but they all seem like distant memories now. We're forever chopping and changing, 'tactics' are all over the place, key players seem to lack commitment and don't look like they know what's expected of them, our fitness levels are poor, players are making the same mistakes as they were making at the start of the season, and we're dropping points week-in, week-out for the same reasons. Most of that list sits at the manager's door - and he can no longer say that he's trying to play his style with another manager's signings. It's as though the players no longer enjoy playing for Koeman, and I have to say that - even though I like the guy - I probably wouldn't either. He seems quite an intimidating presence, which is okay as long as he's delivering. But, like LvG, he certainly isn't. With Ranieri opting for stability and consistency, Koeman is the new Tinkerman, and it isn't working. Les Reed has gone silent, and Koeman is sure enough of himself to publicly diss Reed's baby - the academy. Is there someone in the club who's big and brave enough to confront Koeman and get things back on track?

I think we have a character issue in the team. We've actually been playing quite well until we hit some adversity, and then it goes pear-shaped in a hurry and we don't look like recovering. The individual errors are killing us - weak midfield giveaways, unforgivable ball-watching and an inability to finish. It doesn't help that we have a spineless and self-centered midfielder responsible for providing the spine in our midfield.

We are so fragile at the moment. Playing quite well and then we cave in at the first sign of adversity. Weak giveaways, ball-watching and slow getting back. We don't seem to have much spine, and if we're counting on Wanyama to provide it things won't get better. He's been going through the motions pretty much all season.

That's harsh. If there was a "not for the first time" to be applied, it should have gone to Bertrand IMO, who - not for the first time - was caught upfield and didn't get back in time.

I didn't say "Davis doesn't score" - I said that we don't get enough goals from midfield. Two between him and JWP is woeful. And yes, he does have chances but he seldom scores from them, which is the very problem I'm talking about.

Yes, two* in 19 appearances. And "nearly" didn't get us a point. * That's two more than JWP. Look around the division and see what other forward midfielders are doing.

Some goals from midfield would transform this side. We do okay at conceding them but we're really crap at scoring them. It's not as though the problem isn't obvious to Koeman and Reed when we're picking Davis and Ward-Prowse as a duo. December probably isn't going to be pretty, results-wise, but I can see us addressing the attacking midfield problem in January and pushing on strongly from there.

If Koeman has "lost it", it's happened in the last four games. Until then we were second in the form table and going well. Sure, he makes some strange decisions but hacking away at Koeman, the players and the Board is ludicrous. They definitely need to spend some sensible money in January, but I think they know that. My bet is on a real quality attacking midfielder and that could transform this team.

Our inability to finish has cost us for some time. Pelle needs to finish better but he contributes more than just finishing. Mané is infuriatingly inconsistent - from minute to minute more than from game to game. But Long doesn't contribute much more than finishing, which is far below the 12 million level. JayRod will be back but his top level future is in doubt. We don't get anything like the goals from midfield that we should, and that's what I think they will try to address in the window rather than buying a striker at a poor-value stage of the season. I'm taking the club at their word when they say that nobody will leave in January. I can see United switching to Bolasie if we turn them back - or talk crazy money - for Mané.