CanadaSaint

I'm utterly bemused that someone who was so tactically adept for most of last season could turn that clueless this quickly. As Derry said, this isn't the first time this season that he's got the starting line up shockingly wrong - and that's not a judgment of hindsight because each time plenty of people voiced reservations before a ball was even kicked. But for Koeman to fail to see it at half time tonight, and then to make bizarre comments about how well we played, is really, really troubling. I don't subscribe to the view myself but I can quite understand why some would think that there's trouble behind the doors of SMS and/or that Koeman is playing some kind of game here. I still think we have a very good squad and an excellent starting eleven, but that will count for naught if Koeman keeps getting the line up and tactics wrong. Stunned. Just stunned.

Given the style of his game, I don't think there's a coach in the world more likely to improve him than Koeman. With that kind of guidance, "World class" is not beyond him. And given the CD challenges of some of the PL big boys, I still can't believe we're in with a good chance of getting him. But perhaps the "Koeman factor" is the key element. If he comes, let's just enjoy his time with us in the full knowledge that he's likely to end up at one of the real elite clubs - more so than any player we've had so far.

If a player like Pelle is going to be effective, we need others to anticipate his knock-downs and layoffs and burst into the space they can open up. Nobody is really doing that right now. Mané tends to do his own thing (lethal at some times, almost laughable at others) and JayRod (who fed really well off Lambert) isn't back to full fitness yet - physical fitness or match fitness. Advanced midfielders could certainly do it but Davis couldn't score in a brothel and JWP is far from the player he looked like becoming; even if they are there for the layoff, their first instinct is to turn and pass square or backwards. Opportunity lost. For me, Pelle takes a lot of sh*t as a result of the inadequacies of others.

I'd like to know what has happened to him behind the scenes. He was at that kind of level not too far back but he's taken on a lot of the Davis characteristics in his 'offensive' game, but lacks Davis's chase-back tenacity in his defensive game. I don't know whether it's a coaching thing or a confidence thing, but the result is really disappointing.

I don't think anyone is "hailing VVD as our saviour". I see a lot of people thinking that he's better than what we have, that he can pair up well with Fonte, and that he could add an element we don't have - a defender able to push forward and add a dimension to our offence (much like Koeman used to do). Saviour? No. Improvement? Very likely.

Sure, that's not a shadow of the side we've watched in the past two years ... BUT it's not a shadow of the side we'll see when the missing players (including, hopefully, VvD) are in the line up. I think RK is running a bit of a low-ambition holding operation, waiting to be able to pick his real starting eleven. An away point against a newly-promoted side is seldom a bad result in the first 5-10 games of the season, especially when you're 3-4 players short of your best line up, so I'll take it. Someone needs to have a word in the ears of Wanyama and Romeu. They are key to our success and they can't keep picking up silly yellow cards because we can't afford to lose them. There's smart/necessary combative, and there's stupid combative.

I'm more inclined to blame our failure to defend that vital space on the edge of the area, "the D". Half-clearances often seem to end up there, game after game, inviting someone to smack 'em and hope. It's been a problem of ours for a while. But we are equally inept at attacking the opposition D.

Can't argue much with that, although I thought our movement off the ball (a key to our success) improved drastically after half time, so unlocking a better passing game (though still far short of last year's level). However, when it comes to the season ahead (and 95% of it is ahead) I'm not saying "take it for granted" - I'm voicing my optimism that it will come to pass, and I'm offering the (IMO) prerequisites for that to happen - the Wanyama/Romeu dovetail, Clasie's ability to provide the link, and how effectively our direct peers have strengthened. The thing I am taking for granted is that we'll strengthen in the middle of our back row - VvD or whoever. I fancy our chances of making those controllable things happen but it's likely than any success in matching last year' achievements will probably (for the "it takes time" reasons you referenced) result from a poorer first half of the season and a stronger second half. But then I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy.

Sure, the draw was disappointing and the first half performance was rather troubling. But do people seriously expect to be viewing the finished product three games into the season - with significant personnel changes and with key players injured? Well, I mean people apart from the urine-soaked one ( "3 weeks in and we've blown this season" ). We've adjusted well at half time in the last two games, some players are just getting to understand eachothers' styles and tendencies, we have core players to return from injury, we have budget in hand (and a better idea of further needs), and we have proven skill at the top in the form of Koeman and Reed. There's not a doubt in my mind that we'll soon be much better than we've been thus far. Schneiderlin apart, I feel that by the time the window closes we'll better placed in terms of quality squad depth than we were this time last year. Whether that converts into more points or a higher finish will depend on whether Wanyama and Romeu can develop a solid dovetail, how well Clasie can improve us in the link role just in front of them, and whether our peer group clubs (5-10) have strengthened better than us.

When I see the money being discussed for Stones, look at the central defenders at the PL's big clubs, and reflect on how much we're (supposedly) willing to pay, I'm amazed we're even in with a chance. I'd love to see him come to us, but against that backdrop Celtic would have to be nuts to sell him to us IMO. But, as you said, who knows?

It wouldn't surprise me if we have been made aware that they'll keep him if they go through, which could have triggered our (alleged) higher interest in Kalidou Koulibaly. If VvD is as good as many seem to believe, there will be bigger budget teams after him than us, and I think Celtic know it.

To respond further, beyond issuing firm rejections and standing by them, I'd suggest that we need to develop an effective strategy because this issue isn't going away. Something like these: If we are confident that the Black Box analysis really is that accurate, and that our coaching staff will improve the players we bring in, sign them to longer term deals and defer the point at which we need to start worrying. Sure, it won’t work out with some (to our cost), but could make a big difference with the real quality players (to our major benefit). Think about trying something that’s quite common in North American sport – one or two option years which can be implemented, at the club’s discretion, at the end of the initial contract term. Start buying more high-potential youngsters to fill the gaps in our academy - players that, with good coaching, could grow into credible first team replacements over the next 2-4 years. I'm a little concerned that our academy seems to be dropping off in terms of developing talent of first team calibre, but others on here would know better. There's no panacea for the kind of situation that we, and others, constantly face, but we have to start somewhere. We need some tactical solutions.

I'm not suggesting that drawing the line is easy, because it isn't - for the reason you outlined. But being seen to at least make the effort to do so - like Everton and Stones, Palace and Bolasie (even if they sell in the end) - is a starting point that I'm not sure we've reached yet. Why is being a stepping stone club a bad thing? Because sooner or later you run out of luck with the replacements - we've made some great signings but we've also had some really bad big-money buys during the Reed era. What would I propose as an alternative? What I said above. Reed didn't say "join Saints and get yourself a move to a really big club", so he should be much less accepting of that mindset.

At some point the club needs to draw a line in the sand. It's not just about the latest targeted player but about the attitude of the rest of the squad - and even players we haven't signed yet. If you get the reputation of being a "stepping stone club", that's exactly what you become in the eyes of present and future players and their agents. Having said that, I love the positives that Mané brings but I think his "fart in a thunderstorm" style screws us up tactically as often as it helps us. I want to see that line drawn - and soon, but silly money for Mané might not be as bad a thing as it seems at first blush. As long as "The Black Box" knows exactly what we need to do next, if he goes. There I have my doubts.

So, does Clyne's inability to defend against high balls slung to the far post make him a bad defender? No, it makes this an area of weakness in his game that has to be addressed with tactical coverage - something that was missing in a lot of places on Saturday. All players have weaknesses - not that losing out in a physical battle with Lukaku is indicative of a weakness. This is a team game, and we came up short on that front at the weekend ("the Schneiderlin gap") - leaving quite a few players over-exposed. That will be addressed, and most of the players who had problems at the weekend will look much better.

But isn't that exactly what you were saying last year after we'd lost Lallana, Lambert, Lovren and Chambers? It's not just about players but about how they dovetail and how they are used tactically. The team can be better than the sum of its parts. Perhaps that's why those players, as good as they were for us, haven't set their new worlds alight. Give it a chance before melting, Roger. And two games - with an open window - isn't a chance.

How do you know we haven't got it dead right this summer? After all, we have the same number of points as we had this time last year. FWIW I think we have a better squad, and possibly a better first choice starting line up (assuming the arrival of a quality CB), with more tactical options, than we had this time last year.

I'm glad he's all over the corner kick issue and, based on what we know of him, I'm sure he's also had a look in the mirror about his last two line-ups - judging by his Romeu comments.

That's what I think he'll do. Clasie might be a Davis replacement rather than a Schneiderlin replacement. I see plenty of reason for optimism about the season, regardless of the first two games.

Agree with most of that but he might have his eye on playing Clasie a bit farther forward due to his passing skills (needed up front) and smaller physical stature (could be problematic in front of the back four).

Sure, people are talking about his poor selection but he's not being subjected to the same OTT vitriol as half of the team and a Board that has done a fantastic job for us. Hopefully we have learned our lessons because that's the second week in a row that we've tried a trick that's not going to work with the players we have. It's also the second week in a row that we've been ripped apart on counters from underhit Stephen Davis corners.

It's not rubbish at all. Compared to some of the players, Koeman is being very gently treated on here tonight. I love the guy but he dropped a massive clanger today, and that was the cause of today's sh*t-show. He had a bit of an excuse last week (I'm sure he was fully consulted about the starting line up at Newcastle), but not today. He'd had a chance to learn the lesson from last week, and he had the role-player we needed in order to play the way we have to play. He should have started him. Now we've got the usual suspects, including the urine-soaked one from Austria, ignoring that fact, crying about want-away players, and opting to berate the Board and everyone bar those who picked the team. By the time we learn the lessons of the last two games, get our injured players back, and sign VvD (or whoever), we'll be fine. The other results this season are already all over the place.

There's not much point in getting carried away and reaching silly OTT conclusions about individual players. The loss of Schneiderlin is being felt all through the team, but at least we've acted to sign a reasonably like-for-like player, even if he may not be of Morgan's quality. If Romeu had started today, which IMO he should have, most of the players currently being slated would have played better IMO. Yoshida would have had more time to cover Targett, Wanyama and Davis could have played the roles they played last year, the central defensive two would have enjoyed more protection, we'd have bought the ball out from the back more efficiently, and things would have looked better up front. As I said earlier, the game was lost with the starting line up, and - when I saw Lukaku and Kone in their starting line up, Romeu on our bench, and a rather disrespectful (to Everton) front four - I had a nasty feeling it might be a long afternoon. Sure, some players performed poorly but I think that was down to the starting line up rather than their own ability level. It troubles me that Davis continues to underhit corners even though they have now led to at least four lethal counter attacks in the last two games. Everton also deserve some credit for their skill, speed, movement and mobility. Nice side. When our injured players return, and VvD (hopefully) joins us, I think we'll be fine - at least as good as last year.

If we want to defend the counter, the best place to start is by not giving it to them. Davis keeps under-hitting corners. He did it twice last week and at least twice this week (Targett booking, goal) - with most of our defence in their box. Someone obviously had a word in his ear because he then started over-hitting them. Perhaps he shouldn't be taking them.

Lost in the starting line up IMO. It didn't work last week and we dodged a bullet, and it sure as hell didn't work this week and the bullet hit us right between the eyes. Romeu fills a role we MUST have someone performing in our team, or else both defence and midfield go to hell. He should have started regardless of any unfamiliarity. We've got the personnel (or will have, when/if VvD arrives) but we have to get them fit and play them in the right formation. Huge Koeman clanger for me.