CanadaSaint

Thy would be much better players under Koeman and the Big Boys would be throwing wads of cash at us for both of them. Seriously, though, I think Koeman would cook-up something on a tactical level to cover for their "inadequacies", while Pochettino needed them to fit into his system, inadequacies and all.

You are missing the point. Some people took issue with what I said (you being chief among them) but just as many saw things the same way. I didn't say "Poch never really developed players" - I said this in the original post and clarified it later: If those players really did improve as individuals under Pochettino, as opposed to playing and fitting well within Pochettino's system, why have they had such a tough time playing as well at their new clubs? But that's all moot, really, because you've just agreed that "Koeman seems to have taken it to another level", which was the entire point of my post and Hypo's post.

You're still missing the point.

I suggested several weeks ago that Koeman was better at developing players than Pochettino, and some folks took issue with that. My point wasn't that Pochettino was bad at it but that he did it by forcing players to adhere to his effective but largely one-dimensional style. If we didn't play the press, the same players didn't look as good. If you didn't fit the style, you bench-armed a lot (JWP?). Moreover, some individual weaknesses remained weaknesses when he left - Lallana's final ball, our crossing, Wanyama's passing, Clyne's vulnerability to the high ball at the far post, strikes from midfield, anything to do with the keepers, and so on. We dropped a lot of points from winning positions. Koeman and his staff, on the other hand, seem to have made a number of individuals better players. They seem to spot the mistakes in positioning, technique and tactical contribution, and then address them - Mané, Fonte and Yoshida being good examples. This enables the players to still play well in different roles and tactical packages - even within games. We have more dimensions under Koeman and we're seeing more goals from midfield. We're better at protecting leads. And we're doing all this on arguably lower fitness levels - not a criticism, because Pochettino's demands eventually took a toll on the players in mid-Winter. For me, we're playing better and more varied football and we have a very good chance of sustaining it for longer. In fact we have already. Sure, Pochettino's a damn good coach but for me he's not close to Koeman on a number of levels.

Happy enough with the half - we should be leading and our build-up play has been solid. Pelle is the pivot for so much that we do and I fancy us with two players wide and swapping sides. I'm a little concerned with the Reed/Sissoko match up and think Corky might be better able to handle it physically.

I have a favourite that covers fans from multiple clubs, large and small, although it used to p*ss me off. After playing us we get the old "That's the worst we've played in XX years". They're right, of course. We sit third in the PL after 21 games as a result of the longest lucky spell in the history of football.

I saw that but it doesn't make sense. Why would the club agree a fee when the player is one of the very, very few who could trigger a bidding war among the Big Four?

It's a winnable replay in a prestigious cup that is very much worth winning. Using the "I'd rather go out than go to a replay" logic, what's the point of even trying to qualify for Europe, because that really will be fixture congestion? If we want a successful club, this is the kind of thing that goes with it. We might as well start getting used to it.

Thanks!

At risk of getting back on topic, I'd suggest that few PL strikers have hit the woodwork more than him this season. So the (legitimate) criticism that he "misses too many chances" and "needs to be more clinical" is literally only inches away from being inaccurate. And that's ignoring all the other things he contributes.

While not disagreeing with your point (or those made by some others), I'm suggesting a subtle distinction. Pochettino made them better players by virtue of playing in a team that worked well as a cohesive and well-coordinated unit built around a particular style. Outside that environment, some of them are not looking as good this year as they did last year - Lovren being the prime (but not only) example. Some issues last season with certain players (especially the keepers) remained issues. Inside that environment, we were in trouble as soon as we lost starters to injury or suspension because it was impossible to make a "like for like" change in a highly system-based approach. Koeman and his staff seem to me to be doing a good job of addressing individual weaknesses - not just in the carry-over players but also in the new arrivals. As a result he's less reliant on one particular tactical package and more focused on making each player better within a variety of tactical approaches. Even though the results during the recent losing streak were painful, we were still playing well for the most part and I don't think we are hurt by key absentees as much as we were last year. Koeman's team can't (or doesn't) press in the way that Pochettino's did, but Koeman's team can play in more ways (including "soaking-up the pressure but still posing a major offensive threat" - far different to "parking the bus"). That, for me, is largely down to his tremendous work on addressing weaknesses in individual players.

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed. In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama. Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino. Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign. It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

I mentioned it in an earlier post but I'll ask it more directly here. I'm not looking to get attacked, just interested in sensible input because, like everyone else, I'm at a loss to explain the sudden decline in so many areas - including morale. Does anyone else get the impression that Morgan has checked out, with the January window approaching?

If the powers-that-be though that we could just enter the January window looking to add a depth player or two, the last five games - and especially tonight - have surely changed that. It almost feels as though we're back where we were when Koeman arrived. Long and Mané look abysmal, Morgan almost looks like he's already checked out, and I'm even less convinced about Forster than I was when we signed him. All I'm trying to figure out now is whether something-unseen has happened inside the club, because we've suddenly fallen off the cliff with no apparent explanation.

Maybe so, but I never once got the sense that this was a game on which we placed a high priority.

This is what happens when you go into a game half-arsed. Either go for it with the team selection or bottle it.

The numbers don't really support you. Looking at the line-ups we've started, which (granted) ignore the impact of substitutions, we've clearly done better with Tadic/Pelle/Long starting. Tadic, Pelle and Long: West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Arsenal - 15 Points, 2.5 Points per game Tadic, Pelle and Mané: QPR, Spurs, Stoke, Leicester, Man City, Burnley - 9 Points, 1.5 PPG Tadic, Pelle, Long and Mané: Villa, Man United - 1 Point, 0.5 PPG Tadic and Pelle: Liverpool, West Brom 1 Point, 0.5 PPG Anecdotally, and just as a personal opinion, I'd say that we've also played better in those games - more balanced, more pleasing to the eye, more effective. I'm not making Long out to be more than he is and I agree with pretty much everyone else that we overpaid for him, and that we need to add to our front line strength in January. I'm saying that we're stronger tactically and positionally, and the front group seems to be much more effective (which includes the FBs and midfielders when we're pushing), with Long in the starting line up rather than Mané. The obvious corollary is that we're worse with Mané in the starting line-up.

Let's hope he was instrumental in the signing of Mané and that he manages to sign some similar nuggets for Spurs.

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad. We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively. In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances. To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench. Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs. I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him. Roll on AFCoN. All IMO, of course.

He was "static" again on that first half cross that ended up in the scramble inside the six yard box. With little in the way of blocking attackers, it was "keeper's ball" all the way, especially for a guy his height, but he inexplicably stayed on his line and mayhem ensued. We ended up with a free kick for something in the melé but Forster's lack of decisiveness created the problem in the first place. He has to make his height and physical stature his biggest assets and dominate the goalmouth, especially as low shots will always be challenging for him, but he's not even doing that consistently. And inconsistency on crosses sews uncertainty among defenders, which we're starting to see.

My optimism dropped dramatically when I saw Mané in the starting line up. Whatever his talents are, they are far too raw for the Premier league - and especially this team. His lack of tactical/positional discipline is screwing up the way other players contribute to a style that was working very well for us. It was clearly apparent in the Spurs game when he kept coming inside instead of taking on a slow full back (Dier), and even then he missed a sitter right in front of goal. He doesn't look like a good finisher so he either plays wide or (my preference) not at all. Oh well, If Koeman can't see it, we'll just have to look forward to AFCoN. I have a feeling that Sheffield United will be Burnley Mk 2 in terms of how they play so we need to get this sorted out pronto.

We are going to face exactly the same kind of football on Tuesday, so we'd better figure things out. I can't for the life of me understand why it's taking Koeman so long to realize that Mané is a liability most of the time and that his undisciplined style screws up both Pelle and Tadic, as well as Bertrand and the advance midfielder(s).

Tadic is a "scuff shooter" - he seldom gets clean contact on his shots, so I'm not sure why he'd be taking spot kicks. Starting to get concerned about some of our decision making. I can't see us ever hitting our stride with Mané in the team. He screws us up both offensively and defensively because nobody knows where he'll be or what he'll do.

That's how it has seemed to me. I much prefer Long on the right, Tadic on the left, and Mané on the bench. Mané doesn't seem to have a football brain at all, so his pace and (occasional) skill will end up being wasted.

Sure, the corners weren't good but it's not just about the cross. City didn't clear the front man with several of theirs, but that front man was one of their guys and the flick-on caused us a ton of trouble. It would be nice to see one of our big guy make a late near-post run just in case we under-hit the cross - again.